Sheriff Gore Aims to Issue More Concealed Gun Permits in San Diego County

[Nachoman]

Originally Posted by SD County Gun Owners PAC

I met with the undersheriff two weeks ago and they are full steam ahead on making the process better and continuing to issue.

And also, I think the most important part about your work is that you've developed a productive working relationship with the Sheriff's department... where you are helping to shape and move their department in the direction you want.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by SD County Gun Owners PAC

The question of why Gore has changed has come up.

Here is the story. San Diego County Gun Owners SDCGO launched in late 2015. From the start we focused on the Sheriff’s CCW policies and getting him to change them or elect someone who will.
In no particular order SDCGO:
- Spoke to Gore’s supporters, donors, friends, colleagues, and staff about what was wrong with his CCW policies.
- Interviewed on TV news, radio, and in print regarding Gore’s CCW policies
- We met with organizations that had endorsed him in the past and got them to withhold their endorsement due to his CCW policies
- Sent people to Gore’s fundraisers and speaking events to publicly criticize his CCW policies
- Met with Gore to complain about his polices
- Met with his opponent and helped him (a lot) craft his proposed CCW policy
- Raised money for his opponent and eventually endorsed his opponent
- Authored a resolution (letter from the city) for Santee stating that they, as a city, disagree with his CCW policy and want him to change it
- Got other elected officials on the federal and local level to meet with Gore and ask him to change his CCW polices. Some of this was made public and published in newspapers.
- Got the undersheriff in Orange County to talk to Gore about how successful their CCW program has been
This is most of what we did and in the end it worked. After Santee passed their resolution he called SDCGO and we spent last summer meeting with Gore’s staff. We asked for good cause to be “self defense” or “personal protection”. We did not get that. But what we got is better than it has been in decades.
Just about any good cause is approved, but the tricky part is you have to have proof. Gore was audited by the state and he doesn’t want a bad audit. So there has to be some kind of proof or backup showing your good cause is real.
Example:
Good cause – I’m a contractor and carry expensive tools to the job sight.
Proof – contractor’s license
Good cause – I hoke and camp often in San Diego’s back country.
Proof – pictures of you camping and a log book showing specifically where you go, how long, and what you bring.

I met with the undersheriff two weeks ago and they are full steam ahead on making the process better and continuing to issue. Last September there were around 1,100 CCWs issued in San Diego (not including judges and law enforcement). As of tonight there are 1682 (according to the counter added to the sheriff’s CCW webpage). Over 500 additional permits issued in just under a year. About a dozen have been turned down to background check issues (like finding a domestic violence conviction or recent DUI) and around 6 have been turned down due to their good cause statement. Mostly it was because they did not follow our instructions or refused to produce proof. I think they should have been granted a CCW, but I also think they would have been issued a permit had they followed our instructions.
They have hired more staff and I am trying to convince them to get the same software Orange County uses to run their program. SDCGO continues to fight back bureaucracy that has tried to creep into the system and we’ve been successful. It is NOT perfect…but we are continuing to make it better and we can hardly believe how much it has changed for the better.
Basically, most people in San Diego are about 16 sentences away from a CCW. It is real. It is happening. If you haven’t applied yet, you are missing out. There is a backlog and yes, that sucks. Call right now and make your appointment. Then take a few months while you wait for your first appointment to complete the application, write your good cause statement, get proof of your good cause, and take a few training classes on CA carry laws/lethal force laws.
I have given over 30 seminars (most were free) on how to get your CCW and what to write for your good cause. SDCGO has produced a video explaining how to apply and what to write for your good cause. We have produced a Good Cause Worksheet that walks you through each sentence. SDCGO has posted over 25 good cause statements that we know have been approved. All can be found on www.SDCGO.org/CCW

-Michael Schwartz
SDCGO, Executive Director

Michael, you & SDCGO have obviously had extensive interactions with Gore and his CCW unit, both staff and LEOs. Can you answer a question I posed, IIRC, much earlier in this thread: Why was Gore willing to risk his job just to NOT readily issue CCWs to law-abiding citizens? He's a Repub in a conservative county -- he should have been Pro CCWs! He should have been on our side. Why did he HATE the idea of CCWers so much that he was willing to put his career on the line rather than issue CCWs to law-abiding citizens?

Even if he didn't care about our 2nd A RKBA (and CCWing being the only way to do that legally in CA), it still makes NO sense. 42 out of 50 states + D.C. are Shall Issue, don't have problems with CCWers and have never gone back to restrictive issuance. So even from a mere "policy"/public safety argument, Shall Issue/SD = GC has been shown to be a good policy nationwide.

Similarly, within CA 45 out of 58 counties liberally issue CCWs and none have ever gone back to restrictive issuance (other than OC temporarily when Hutchens first took office to clear out corruption). So again, from a "public safety"/policy perspective liberalized GC is a good policy.

Why did he fight against it for so long???

My question isn't rhetorical or stirring up trouble. In the SFBA we've got the same problem with Sheriff Smith in Santa Clara Co. She's a Repub. Santa Clara is majority Dem, but of all the SFBA counties, its majority is the smallest ("only" 24% more Dems than Repubs ). So any insights would be appreciated.

[jnojr]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Michael, you & SDCGO have obviously had extensive interactions with Gore and his CCW unit, both staff and LEOs. Can you answer a question I posed, IIRC, much earlier in this thread: Why was Gore willing to risk his job just to NOT readily issue CCWs to law-abiding citizens? He's a Repub in a conservative county -- he should have been Pro CCWs! He should have been on our side. Why did he HATE the idea of CCWers so much that he was willing to put his career on the line rather than issue CCWs to law-abiding citizens?

I had a conversation with the old licensing manager about this roughly 15 years ago. The response was pretty much, "This has been the policy of the Sheriff's Department for years, it works for us." I really think there was a lot more bureaucratic inertia than active hostility in his position. I think that Mr. Schwartz was just so persistent that he was able to overcome that inertia

[L84CABO]

I had my first interview this afternoon. The nice young lady who was helping me told me that people calling in today for their first interview appointment are being scheduled in MARCH.

So if you're at all thinking about trying to get your CCW...even if you haven't made your mind up yet and aren't sure...I would still call and make an appointment...NOW. You can always cancel or reschedule it later.

Good luck!

And may the odds be ever in your favor!

[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by L84CABO

I had my first interview this afternoon. The nice young lady who was helping me told me that people calling in today for their first interview appointment are being scheduled in MARCH.

So if you're at all thinking about trying to get your CCW...even if you haven't made your mind up yet and aren't sure...I would still call and make an appointment...NOW. You can always cancel or reschedule it later.

Good luck!

And may the odds be ever in your favor!

Ho-Lee-CRAP! Six months!
That is crazy, they have to start looking at streamlining something.

[L84CABO]

Originally Posted by CessnaDriver

Ho-Lee-CRAP! Six months!
That is crazy, they have to start looking at streamlining something.

Yup. But I'm pretty sure they won't. I'm trying to keep my cool with all of this but the further down the actual path I get, the more angry I get with respect to how unconstitutional this all is.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by L84CABO

I had my first interview this afternoon. The nice young lady who was helping me told me that people calling in today for their first interview appointment are being scheduled in MARCH.

So if you're at all thinking about trying to get your CCW...even if you haven't made your mind up yet and aren't sure...I would still call and make an appointment...NOW. You can always cancel or reschedule it later.

Good luck!

And may the odds be ever in your favor!

You snooze, you lose!

Originally Posted by Kate

Hi All,
I just received a SD CCW.

<snip>

K

[CessnaDriver]

So after you get the approval letter, how does it work?
You schedule your training, get that done, and how quick can you get the appointment to provide the proof of training and pick up your CCW?

[LoadedM333]

Originally Posted by CessnaDriver

So after you get the approval letter, how does it work?
You schedule your training, get that done, and how quick can you get the appointment to provide the proof of training and pick up your CCW?

Yes, They will provide instructions and lists of training instructors.
Schedule training of your choosing.
Once you completed, You have 30 days from the date of approval letter, call the clerk that handles your application to come down SDSO office to pay the rest of the fees and pick up your permit.

Mine was within a week. I finished training on Saturday, called following Monday, picked my permit on Wednesday.


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[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by LoadedM333

Yes, They will provide instructions and lists of training instructors.
Schedule training of your choosing.
Once you completed, You have 30 days from the date of approval letter, call the clerk that handles your application to come down SDSO office to pay the rest of the fees and pick up your permit.

Mine was within a week. I finished training on Saturday, called following Monday, picked my permit on Wednesday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fantastic. Thanks.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by nadodave

I got my approval letter today!!! Well yesterday, but nobody checked the mail.

[nadodave]

Paladin, a friend of mine got his same day, we did our interviews within a few days if each other.

Neither of us know the sheriff or have donated to his election. We were both cautiously optimistic.

[Nachoman]

Originally Posted by nadodave

Paladin, a friend of mine got his same day, we did our interviews within a few days if each other.

Neither of us know the sheriff or have donated to his election. We were both cautiously optimistic.

How far into the 90 day wait did you get the approval letter?

[nadodave]

Originally Posted by Nachoman

How far into the 90 day wait did you get the approval letter?

Almost all 90. Saturday was 85, or so.

[Mjaquette]

I’ll be at the SDCGO CCW Seminar this Thursday to get the process started!


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[mjv]

Just got my approval letter. 77 days total.

[Nachoman]

Originally Posted by nadodave

Almost all 90. Saturday was 85, or so.

Originally Posted by mjv

Just got my approval letter. 77 days total.

Cool thanks, I'm about halfway through my wait. Hopefully they are speeding things up!

[baranski]

Originally Posted by Mjaquette

I’ll be at the SDCGO CCW Seminar this Thursday to get the process started!


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Good deal, and best of luck to you!

[L84CABO]

Originally Posted by Mjaquette

I’ll be at the SDCGO CCW Seminar this Thursday to get the process started!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you didn't see my posting above, call and make your appointment ASAP. They're scheduling about 6 months out at this point so you've got plenty of time.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by kayej

2nd interview 26 June - panel approval 25 Sept - letter is in the mail. Now on to required training and then issue!!

Originally Posted by nadodave

As of today I have my permit in hand! It is bigger than a credit card, but it fits into the main opening of my single-fold wallet just fine.

While I was there, the guy I met with showed me his enormous collection of applicants who have received their letter of approval, but have not yet scheduled their appt to pick up, some are from August he said. I would guess at least 50 files.

But ... but ... CGNers assured me after the election, Gore would stop issuing!

If this keeps up, what will some SD CGNers have left to whine about? (That's a joke. Whiners ALWAYS find something to whine about.... )

[baranski]

They will be able to whine about not getting off their butts and doing anything about it.


Just like we saw statewide in Gunmaggedon.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Paladin

OMG! Gore's gone and done it again: SDSO is now at 1682 CCWs -- an increase of 105 in one month! Yet another record total and, probably, a record monthly increase!



https://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html

Plus, note how Gore went from approving 85 in a month to approving 105: ~25% increase in the rate of CCWs approved per month. Hopefully, that increases next month too.

If the increasing rate of issuance keeps up, SDSO should break 2,000 CCWers by New Years and 3,000 CCWers in just over a year from now.

If SDSO switches to online apps and that transition goes smoothly, Gore can crank them out even faster!

It's "that time of the month" again.... Gore has updated the SO's CCW counter: there's now 1758 issued CCWs! An increase of 78 in one month! (I do NOT know if that number includes the ~50 people who, per my previous post, have yet to make an appointment to pick up their permits. )
https://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html

[Meety Peety]

Just received my approval letter. Took 73 days from date of second appointment to date I received my letter. Only contact I had was a single email requesting a copy of my AZ CCW about a week ago.

[L84CABO]

Had appointment number 2 today. The lady said if you call today to book your first interview, they're scheduling for April 9th. Interesting process too compared to free America. The difference between a right and a privilege.

Here: Pages and pages of forms and documentation to establish and PROVE "good cause." Multiple appointments and trips to the sheriff's office. Lots of processing time while they go through all the pages. Processing fees, course fees, permit fees. 90 day processing time to see if you're approved or rejected.

Washington: One week to schedule appointment. One page form. $54. One 10 minute trip to the sheriff's office to turn in form and get printed. No class. No good cause statement. Permit in hand 30 days later after background check.

[baranski]

Originally Posted by Meety Peety

Just received my approval letter. Took 73 days from date of second appointment to date I received my letter. Only contact I had was a single email requesting a copy of my AZ CCW about a week ago.

Congrats Meety!

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by CessnaDriver

Happily I can also report an approval letter received @ 85 days since the 2nd interview. It was effort and time so one feels happy achieving the goal, but also odd to feel happy about needing a CCW because of criminals. But that's reality.

I also want to remind anyone new to this that my first interview I got discouraging words from the clerk, this was with a good cause I was helped with by experts. I reassessed my good cause with same experts, stressed one aspect more than others and dropped the general self defense aspects, and pressed on and was far better received. So don't panic if the first interview is not all sunshine. Work the process! Having a "denial" on your "record" because your good cause was rejected in San Diego is nothing to be concerned about. Press on!

My advice to anyone is get the appointment now. The wait is so long.
You have a ton of time to take a seminar and research your good cause and
run it past experts.

My personal executive summary is to have a good cause that can provide them with good documentation, which I believe is so they can provide proof they did vet someone has elevated risk over the general public if audited.

I would strongly advise to not talk yourself out of what might be considered elevated risk. Research successful good causes, go to seminars and talk to the experts. I think many would be surprised that there is good
cause for them if they do their homework.
I did not donate to Gore, my good cause was not work related, nor because I had any reported threats against me.
Yes it should be like AZ but this is about how to walk the path we have now and continue to work towards general self defense as good cause.

Congrats CD!!!

[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Congrats CD!!!

Thanks!

After being in the "Peruta pile" getting hopes up and then dashed, it seemed
it would stay impossible. So you never can tell.

San Diego County Gun Owners are genuine champions.
That line from Shawshank Redemption comes to mind....... "pressure and time."

The pressure must be kept on until self defense is accepted as good cause.
https://sandiegocountygunowners.com/

[Nachoman]

Originally Posted by CessnaDriver

The pressure must be kept on until self defense is accepted as good cause.
https://sandiegocountygunowners.com/

Yup, I should hear my results in about 10 days, hopefully it's an affirmative one!

Ultimately all of us CCW holders are what will convince Gore to continue loosening those restrictions. SDCGO will be able to point to all of us and highlight that even with all these new CCW holders there's no spike in crime or gun violence... we're not the ones causing problems, we're not the ones engaging in criminal activity. We were good people before having a CCW, and we continue to be good people afterwards.

[Nachoman]

For those who have attended the CCW course after your approval, what's the course of fire to qualify each weapon?

[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by Nachoman

For those who have attended the CCW course after your approval, what's the course of fire to qualify each weapon?

It's different for each "school" I am learning.
Discount Guns did not have timed firing, but they are
watching you.
All at self defense ranges, moving closer as you went
through each round, center mass...
It was strong hand/two hands five rounds, reload,
weak hand/two hands, reload
Then one hand both strong and weak. etc.
Then from the hip. No holsters were used.
Repeat for each weapon you want to list.
Bring your own ammo and firearms, they can provide
the rest. But most of us have our own eyes and ears.
They list the serial numbers of your firearms at the end.
So bring what you intend to have printed on your CCW.
What we list on the application does not count. What
you take to class does.

[ogarcia_02]

"have a good cause that can provide them with good documentation"

What are the chances for someone who doesn't deal with stacks of cash or have their own business?

[CessnaDriver]

Originally Posted by ogarcia_02

"have a good cause that can provide them with good documentation"

What are the chances for someone who doesn't deal with stacks of cash or have their own business?

My GC involved neither of those. Nothing to do with employment
of any kind.
Ends up my chances were 100%.
My advice is make the appointment. It's six months out,
that's a lot of time to work on your GC.
Go to the local seminars on getting a CCW and go over possible
reasons with the instructors.

[L84CABO]

Originally Posted by ogarcia_02

"have a good cause that can provide them with good documentation"

What are the chances for someone who doesn't deal with stacks of cash or have their own business?

It's actually been pretty encouraging. It's been reported that people have gotten permits where their reason was essentially that they frequent remote parts of the county where cell service is poor and police response time would be delayed. This can be various activities like camping, off roading, hiking, etc.

The key as ogarcia stated is being able to provide good documentation...PROOF...that you do the things you say you do and that there is a credible threat that you face. So for example, having receipts from various camp sites can prove you were out there actually camping. This can be further supported with pictures of you camping, etc.

My good cause is along these lines so I'll certainly let folks know how it goes once I get accepted/rejected. However, one of the things I did was to take pictures with a copy of dated SD Union newspaper in my photos to prove I was in the place on the date stated. I also turned in a copy of the front page of that paper so they could easily verify the date.

Try to elaborate on the possible threats a bit as well as relay any legitimate threats you actually faced while doing these things. Like "the last time I was there I encountered a mountain lion." Or, "the campsite next to us was robbed." Or, "we saw a group of what appeared to be illegal aliens moving across the desert in front of us."

And I am by no means telling you to make stuff up. I'm just trying to give you examples of things that can help demonstrate there is a legitimate threat in your activity.

Also try to show anything that makes you an increased target. Like the bringing along of expensive valuables. Maybe this is your camping equipment or your dirt bikes. Maybe it's the vehicle/truck you travel in. Or the $5K worth of firearms that you bring. Etc. Make sure you take pictures of you with your valuables at the location (don't forget the newspaper). Provide receipts for the items to substantiate their value.

[SD County Gun Owners PAC]

We have a step-by-step video, a two page Good Cause Worksheet, and at least 2 dozen examples of good cause statements that have been approved on our website:
www.SanDiegoCountyGunOwners.com/CCW

Around 600 additional CCW permits have been issued since the huge policy change a year ago September.

[kayej]

Brief summary of my CCW saga for anyone interested. I have been carrying for about a week now and I must say it feels pretty darn comforting. Comments about don't worry about people knowing you are carrying etc. ring very true; wife didn't realize I was carrying until she saw me putting my firearm away after I had been carrying for a week. Timeline is as follows: 2nd interview 26 June, approval letter 25 Sept, training 29 Sept, permit pickup 3 Oct. Good cause statement was multifaceted including some past military service stuff, transporting firearms and ammo to and from the range and RVing to remote areas. Phone call from Sheriff's office to provide receipts for guns and photos of RV camping came about a week before panel approval. Staff was most accommodating and Bernie (clerk who issued my permit) laminated and folded it in half to fit in my wallet.

[Nachoman]

Got my approval letter today, I'm too lazy to count but it's day ~75-80ish after my second interview. Just got to do the training and I should have my fancy CCW permit!

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by drjeffles

I called in May of this year, couldn't take the first date so took one 2 weeks later mid July, got my ccw last week. Total of 5 months. I thought that was too long. Seems to be getting worse. Yikes! And more ccw permits means eventually more appointments for renewals, hence bogging the process down more in the future. They need a more robust system and more resources or it will only get worse.

[baranski]

Originally Posted by Nachoman

Got my approval letter today, I'm too lazy to count but it's day ~75-80ish after my second interview. Just got to do the training and I should have my fancy CCW permit!

Congrats!

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Paladin

It's "that time of the month" again.... Gore has updated the SO's CCW counter: there's now 1758 issued CCWs! An increase of 78 in one month! (I do NOT know if that number includes the ~50 people who, per my previous post, have yet to make an appointment to pick up their permits. )
https://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html

Another month and Gore's cranked out another 100 CCWs!

Current total: 1858
https://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html

Originally Posted by Paladin

1577 CCWs -- an increase of 85!

Sheriff Gore is turning SDSO into a lean, mean CCW issuing machine!

In 4 months, an increase of almost 300 CCWs.

In 1 year, an increase of ~50%.

ETA: At this rate, SDSO should pass by New Year's eve 2,000 issued 2-year CCWs!

"Please, please, it's too much winning. We can't take it anymore. Mr. Sheriff, it's too much."

[baranski]

Statistics JimiJah, can't even dispute.


Think he will ever apply?