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  #1  
Old 07-25-2022, 9:40 AM
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Default The benefits of .38/357 reloading, revisited (lower-power loads)

Once again, I was given a fine example recently of the benefits of reloading.

There's a lady that wanted to learn how to shoot handgun. I don't have a .22LR handgun, and our .22LR rental guns were in use by customers. Generally, I do handgun marksmanship practice with my Ruger Security-Six, which for those who don't know, is the GP100's older brother and immediate predecessor. It's a little bit heavier than, say, a S&W Model 19, also in .357 Magnum.

I reload .38 Special extensively and frequently for practice with this revolver. The handload is 3.9gr of Bullseye, or alternately, 4.2gr of Titegroup, underneath a 105gr LSWC that I cast. This load chronos at right about 850 ft/sec, thus reproducing in-flight ballistics of most factory .38 Special (not +P, but original spec) ammo that you buy in the store. Due to the lighter bullet and lower powder charge, the recoil is significantly lower. The power is about like a .380 ACP, so in a pinch, it's still good enough to discourage an attacker if one must.

It seems that "everyone" was telling her to get a Glock 19 in 9mm. That's a fine firearm which I myself enjoy as well, and the 9mm round is justifiably very popular. But, for quite a few first-time shooters, a semi-auto pistol in 9mm (or bigger) isn't the best idea, as they find the "kick" objectionable. She fell into this category; she didn't care for the G19 or shooting in general if that was how it felt.

So, I happened to have some of my lighter .38 Special loads with me. I had her try out my gun, with those handloads. She liked that a lot better. She went through 50 rounds of my handloads. Since I make them very inexpensively, I didn't mind. Given that it was her first day ever shooting a gun, she did pretty well.

I also make a couple of .357 Magnum handloads. One is nearly full-house, and the other is like the old FBI 38 Spl +P+ loads. That day, I had my nearly full-house .357M loads. Had her try a few of those, explaining what they were. They kicked a lot more, obviously, but she handled it.

Finally, I suggested that she try that Glock 19 again. Having worked up to a reasonably strong round first, she was more ready to handle it, and she did considerably better than when she had first tried it. She still somewhat preferred the feel of the revolver, but the G19 didn't scare her anymore like it had previously.

This is one major benefit of reloading .38 Special, a traditionally revolver cartridge. Due to the nature of the revolver's action, you can swing a lot farther from "mild" to "wild" with your loads and have the firearm work normally. From an instructional point of view, this can help get a new shooter interested in continuing to go to the range and practice. That also means it's more likely that this person might become a gun owner him/herself, a very good thing in my view. At that point, I don't care so much what they buy, as long as it works for them. What is important is that they pursue their 2A rights and value them. The more, the better.
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  #2  
Old 07-25-2022, 11:28 AM
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Yep I do a powder puff .38 load for my single action, which most new shooters enjoy. I had to up the load a bit to be able to reliably hit targets at 25 yards ;-)
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Old 07-25-2022, 1:03 PM
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Been loading down centerfire ammo for years, Titegroup fills the bill for me for all my auto pistol and revolver lower power loads, flows good and not position sensitive.
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Old 07-25-2022, 1:23 PM
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Damn good post Cowboy T. One of the reasons I read your posts, as they are insightful, no BS, no negativity. More on here could learn from this.

MLC
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Old 07-25-2022, 3:03 PM
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Very good post! I have been downloading .38 Special for years (lightest load is 4.0 grains of W231 under a 125 JHP). Wife loves them. I also load a 5.0 grain W231 load for a bit more pep and 5.9 grain W231 to mimic a .38 Special +P.

I also just started experimenting with light .357 Magnum loads, my favorite (and most accurate) is 7.0 grains of W231 under the same 125 grain JHP.

I'm in the middle of an experiment on the 454 Casull. I don't need the big ka-blammers I used to use when I was hunting deer, but still want to enjoy some reasonably powerful loads. I just got back from the range after testing a load with 13.0 grains of W231 under a 250 grain Hornady XTP. Excellent accuracy at 10 yards. Can you tell I like W231?





Dan

Last edited by bergmen; 04-05-2023 at 12:50 PM..
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Old 07-25-2022, 5:20 PM
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bergmen, what a nice revolver! And group! Man!

MLC
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  #7  
Old 07-25-2022, 6:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennstater View Post
bergmen, what a nice revolver! And group! Man!

MLC
Thanks! From a rest, not strong enough at my old age to hold free hand.

Amazing I did not have to touch the sights. This revolver has creep in the trigger but it is as smooth as glass, never know when it will let off. Some calm patience and the group you see is the reward.

Next up is my Freedom Arms model 83 with the same loads. We'll see how that works out (and I'll report what happens).

Dan
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Old 07-25-2022, 10:34 PM
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Usually when I take my wife out she enjoys shooting my ruger mk ii, We’ve rented her a number of 9mm pistols, and so far nothing she enjoys mostly due to recoil. The other day we went and I had neglected to clean the mk ii, not unusual (might have been about 800 to 1000 rounds) and we had some reliability issues. I had my sp101 with me and some 357, which clearly wouldn’t work, so I ran out and paid far too much for a box of blazer 125gr 38 special.

2 boxes later and she likes my sp101. I’m loading up a bunch of pretty light wadcutter loads, maybe in 6 months we’ll try 9mm again. Or maybe not, but a light 38 is still a bigger hole than a 22 if she needs to put a hole in something. And mostly it’s just good fun for the two of us.
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Old 07-25-2022, 11:17 PM
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2.7 grains of BE under a 148 WC, or 3.0 under a 158 SWC. Great target loads. Brass will last forever. Work up to 3.5 BE with the 158 for factory equivalent old school .38 special loads.
Lots of powders will work in .38 special.
As you say, .38 special mild loads are awesome for training. Revo's are super flexible since they don't rely on the power/recoil to function the action.
.38 special is about the easiest and cheapest cartridge to reload too.
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  #10  
Old 07-27-2022, 7:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomBytes View Post
Yep I do a powder puff .38 load for my single action, which most new shooters enjoy. I had to up the load a bit to be able to reliably hit targets at 25 yards ;-)
That's the nice thing about my load, above. The farthest I've fired it is 25 yards since our range is only that long, but the load's accurate at that distance. If you can, it might be worth a try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
Very good post! I have been downloading .38 Special for years (lightest load is 4.0 grains of W231 under a 125 JHP). Wife loves them. I also load a 5.0 grain W231 load for a bit more pep and 5.9 grain W231 to mimic a .38 Special +P.

I also just started experimenting with light .357 Magnum loads, my favorite (and most accurate) is 7.0 grains of W231 under the same 125 grain JHP.

I'm in the middle of an experiment on the 454 Casull. I don't need the big ka-blammers I used to use when I was hunting deer, but still want to enjoy some reasonably powerful loads. I just got back from the range after testing a load with 13.0 grains of W231 under a 250 grain Hornady XTP. Excellent accuracy at 10 yards. Can you tell I like W231?





Dan
That's a sweet Blackhawk you've got there...is that a Bisley model?

And funny you mention .454 Casull....



I have two loads for this wheelgun. One is a standard .45 Colt loading with a 200gr LRNFP, using Titegroup. That's the "mild" load.

The other load uses, shall we say, a hefty charge of 2400 powder under a 255gr LRNFP. Was designed to be about the same power as a .44M. That's the "wild" load. :-)

The mild load, you barely feel in that heavy six-gun. The wild load is stiff, but controllable.

Two things about this six-gun: first, the trigger is predictable, but looooong. That's great for dry-fire practice and conditioning. Second, it's heavy, which is why I tend not to use it for introducing new shooters to marksmanship, even with the "mild" load. Recoil isn't the problem; rather, it's the weight of the gun itself. So, I stick to the Security-Six, its older and smaller brother, for instructional purposes. But when I really want to have fun, the SRH comes out. :-)
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Old 07-27-2022, 9:25 AM
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Yes, that is a Super Blackhawk Bisley model, 5 rounds, 6 1/2" barrel. This trigger does have creep but it is butter smooth, very easy to control and the let-off is a surprise, no way to accurately predict it. I am getting close, though since I am getting used to the "length" of the creep.

My FA Model 83 is totally different, just a snap of the icicle. I have not worked on proper trigger discipline with the 83 since I was loading hot loads, I was working on controlling it, not accuracy. With my 13.0 grain W231 loads, I will begin to do that.

When I ordered the 83 I had a .45 Colt cylinder fitted to it, so this gives an extra dimension to my experiments. I also have a blued Blackhawk Bisley in .45 Colt that I have reloaded for it for 15-20 years or so. Much fun here also.

This is really fun!

Dan
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Old 07-27-2022, 10:12 AM
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Hard to beat a .45 Colt. Rifle or revolver, they're just plain fun.

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Old 07-28-2022, 10:20 PM
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I've loaded Bunny fart 38 specials (158lswc/2gr unique) that are super quiet, and the bullets can be seen in flight going to the target.
Pretty cool at close range.
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Old 07-28-2022, 10:29 PM
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I've loaded Bunny fart 38 specials (158lswc/2gr unique) that are super quiet, and the bullets can be seen in flight going to the target.
Pretty cool at close range.
Set your targets so you are between the sun and the target and you can watch almost any bullet go into the target.
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Old 07-29-2022, 1:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bergmen View Post
Yes, that is a Super Blackhawk Bisley model, 5 rounds, 6 1/2" barrel. This trigger does have creep but it is butter smooth, very easy to control and the let-off is a surprise, no way to accurately predict it. I am getting close, though since I am getting used to the "length" of the creep.

My FA Model 83 is totally different, just a snap of the icicle. I have not worked on proper trigger discipline with the 83 since I was loading hot loads, I was working on controlling it, not accuracy. With my 13.0 grain W231 loads, I will begin to do that.

When I ordered the 83 I had a .45 Colt cylinder fitted to it, so this gives an extra dimension to my experiments. I also have a blued Blackhawk Bisley in .45 Colt that I have reloaded for it for 15-20 years or so. Much fun here also.

This is really fun!

Dan
Oh, it is. That 13.0 grain W231 load should be plenty of fun, especially in that smokewagon.

The .45 Colt is also a most enjoyable round, especially the more modern, stronger loads for the more modern, stronger wheelguns. Actually, I did .45 Colt loads (standard SAAMI, nothing hot) before I did .38 Specials. The process is the same, of course. Tried downloading .45 Colt to 5.0gr of Titegroup for the then-girlfriend, and while it did work, there was a lot of unburned powder, and it sounded funny, like the "pop" you get when pulling the cork out of a champagne bottle. I had to get it to 5.4 grains before the powder would start to resemble a more complete burn and get rid of that weird "pop" noise. Ultimately I got to 6.2gr Titegroup, which seems to be good enough. It was still a bit much for the wife, who at the time had a Taurus Judge Ultra-Lite. In that light revolver, she found the snap objectionable, and the trigger guard would smack her finger uncomfortably.

That's when I bought her the .357M K-frame that she has today and developed a .38 Special load for her. She liked that much better. She's been with that ever since.

She has shot the ".45 Colt Magnum" load that I make for the SRH. She can shoot it if she has to in a self-defense situation, but it's a bit much for her. I, on the other hand, love this load, and I suspect that you would as well.
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Old 07-29-2022, 2:39 PM
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I started reloading back in the mid-90s because of the potential for "hot" loads in my then Ruger .45 Colt Blackhawk. I loaded up to 25 grains of W296 under a 250 grain JHP of various makes (published in my Hodgdon Reloading manual). I gave the Blackhawk to my son when I found a Blackhawk Bisley on the shelf at my LGS (not very common at the time - 2008) and bought it. The Bisley grip is a much better shape for high powered loads.

My Freedom Arms 83 has a grip that, even though it looks like a standard Single Action Army grip is actually contoured much like a Bisley. My load for that was 35 grains of W296 under a 240 Hornady XTP Mag (which is actually below the recommended starting load). Here are my three big single action revolvers, top two are 454 Casull, bottom is .45 Colt.



Dan

Last edited by bergmen; 07-01-2023 at 11:52 AM..
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Old 07-29-2022, 8:27 PM
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My std plinking load is 3.0 of BE w/ 148gr wadcutter. Noticeable in an airweight, but like shooting 22LR out of the Model 28.

I'm a revolver fan and pretty much always suggest the largest DA revolver they can manage in 357 to anyone (often ladies) who aren't going to "train".

OP, you need a 22LR revolver.
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Old 07-29-2022, 8:27 PM
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My std plinking load is 3.0 of BE w/ 148gr wadcutter. Noticeable in an airweight, but like shooting 22LR out of the Model 28.

I'm a revolver fan and pretty much always suggest the largest DA revolver they can manage in 357 to anyone (often ladies) who aren't going to "train".

OP, you need a 22LR revolver.

I hate chasing brass around.
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Old 07-31-2022, 7:33 PM
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Indeed, target wadcutter loads are a good choice for practice in pretty much any .38 Spl or .357M revolver. The nice thing about the wadcutter loads is that they do come as factory loads from some companies, for those who don't (yet!) reload. These loads are rather lighter than typical (e. g. FMJ RN) .38 Special loads, which again is good for instruction.
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