#361
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1. Thanks, I was getting at subsection A of 30945 where I would get permission from my girlfriend to leave it at her house as sometimes I sleep over at her house and leave it there to go to work, where I would then pick it up the next day or upcoming weekend.
2 & 3. Thanks, cleared it up. |
#362
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Previously, it would be a "loan" for only 30 days, then it would become an unlawful transfer. Now, if she has access to it when you are not present (outside of your home) it would require an FFL PPT transfer. Yes... the new law actually requires a transfer, BG check, and 10 day wait for a LOAN!
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- Rich |
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Is it considered lending, though? It says that storage is okay with permission, which doesn't read as "to lend" to me. She wouldn't have access if I lock the case and take the key.
I'm conflicted now, Librarian says one thing, and you Coke say another. EDIT: Reread it, it says possession, not storage. I guess if I'm not at her house with the AW, it isn't considered possession. Sucks, oh well. Good to know about the storage rules though. I was considering leaving a handgun there in a locked carrying case for myself and for her as a repeated lend for her own protection. I guess that's out of the picture, too. Last edited by BucDan; 07-10-2018 at 10:03 PM.. |
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What about if you go to the range with a RAW and then drive to a friend's house to keep them there for a few hours until going home? Assuming it's in a locked case and I was there the entire time. Would this violate the transportation restriction?
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#365
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When I hear stuff like this it always reminds me of the "dead hooker in the trunk" analogy. The other thing that comes to mind is "Schrodingers (sp) Cat", the cops will never know what's in your trunk until they open it.
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#366
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That would preclude stops at McD's, IMHO, you would be legal at a private residence.
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Registered my RAWs with my current address but planning on moving into my girlfriends house very soon. Can I keep my gun safe and RAWs at her place once i move in so long as I'm the only one with access to the safe?
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#368
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No requirement to notify DOJ if you move.
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- Rich |
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I've read all sorts of answers here on safe storage of BBRAW at home.. I get the part that BBRAW can only be accessible to person it's registered to
- for someone who moved into CA with firearms and didn't have to go thru long gun safe requirements at purchase.. is a California DOJ approved safe or cable lock the only acceptable way to store a BBRAW? |
#370
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What you can/cannot or must do with Registered Assault Weapons (RAW)
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A cable lock is NOT sufficient, it still allows possession even if it is deactivated by the lock. You must prevent possession of the RAW by anyone who is not a registrant. A locked box, even a plastic rifle case is sufficient for transport. There is no case law defining whether any particular safe is adequate but there are DOJ approved containers meeting at least RSC (residential security container). Most people with entry level safes in the <$1000 range do not have that and are probably ok, maybe not, no law to say. If I did not have a safe yet, I would at minimum use a closing and lockable plastic rifle case. And shop for a safe asap. Maybe even with paper trail to show you were attempting to meet that requirement if you got into a court case on the issue. Andrew - Lancaster, CA NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member Last edited by lordmorgul; 07-13-2018 at 5:39 PM.. |
#371
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but that's my question.. putting transportation aside.. for home storage only safe - if you buy the safe, does it have to be a DOJ approved safe plastic rifle case - does it have to be locked with DOJ approved lock I guess the better question is.. are DOJ approved safes/locks/etc just what they recommend you buy? Are you required legally to only use DOJ approved items when it comes to home storage? |
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DOJ isn’t going to be testing and approving every single storage product. There is no requirement to have everything ‘DOJ approved’. And you don’t always need a ‘safe’. You can be creative. A locked room with its own key. A locking cabinet.
Not quite sure on a locking case. Someone can easily take possession of a locking case to unlock at another place and time. Not saying this for legal reasons but personal protection of your property. |
#373
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It relates to the sale or the firearm, or the sale of the safety device... not the use of the safety device by the buyer. It’s not a recommendation, it is a test passed before allowing sale of the device without putting warnings on it that the test was passed. See this: http://www.locksmithledger.com/artic...e-requirements Quote:
Andrew - Lancaster, CA NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member |
#374
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As it relates to RAW, there is no requirement that you use DOJ approved containers, but doing so would possibly make a legal defense of having prevented possession by an unregistered person to the best of your abilities.
If someone breaks into your locked container to gain access, no matter how easy that was... they have violated the law not you. Andrew - Lancaster, CA NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member |
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"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." Last edited by Dvrjon; 07-14-2018 at 7:57 AM.. |
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so for someone who moved to CA with firearms let's say in 2014 - there's no legal requirement to have these DOJ aprroved safety devices? Firearms weren't purchased in CA. I ask this because as I understand it, for someone who bought a BB-AR-15 in CA in 2014 and signed the safe affidavit.. that person legally has to have that DOJ approved safe.. right? |
#377
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But let's say you bought a BB-AR15 in 2014 and signed the affidavit saying you have the DOJ approved safe. Then you registered that same BB-AR15 into a RAW in 2018.. wouldn't you legally still be required to have that DOJ approved safe? |
#378
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No. The statute (Posted above) says the safe or storage device is required for the FFL to make the transfer. Once they have that assertion, they’re done. The affidavit is dated and states you had the safe on the specific date of transfer. It doesn’t state you’ll keep the safe forever. What if you sold the earlier safe and bought a better one? What you do with your property and how you store it is your business...and your responsibility. If you decide to sell your safe and store your gun under your mattress, you can. You can also be found guilty of criminal storage of a firearm.
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"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
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At the time when you signed the safe affidavit.. you had to have a safe, that was to absolve the FFL from responsibility to sell you a cable lock. Now, it doesn’t matter either way. You do not have to keep the little cable locks that are sold with guns either. If you don’t have a safe and you do have kids present in the house at any time, the cable locks are a useful way to meet the requirement to keep working firearms disabled or locked out of children’s possession. But how you must do that is not specified. Andrew - Lancaster, CA NRA Life Member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / CRPA / FPC / USCCA member |
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I'd go so far as to say that the majority of gun safes available are not listed by CA... and honestly, the majority of what IS listed is more suitable as an ammo cabinet than it is as a gun storage cabinet.
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Remember, it’s NOT the DOJ. It’s the Progressives (and some R’s) in the Legislature that brought us these insignificant, feel-good measures.
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"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
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11 CCR § 4100. https://govt.westlaw.com/calregs/Doc...ta=(sc.Default) Quote:
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"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
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Its probably been asked before but I missed it. I'm going to Arizona to visit my cousin. I want to give him my RAW , my understanding is that I have to transfer it to him via FFl in Arizona, not one in California. Does the rifle have to be in featureless configuration? I understand I would need to fill out the " No Longer In Possession" form
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Your friend in AZ can legally drive to Texas and buy an AR or other long gun from Walmart. California law prohibits the transfer of assault weapons, thus, the transfer would need to take place outside of California. RAW protects you for possession and transport within California... no need for it to be featureless. Once you cross into AZ, the RAW status is irrelevant... it is simply a modern sporting rifle. The NLIP is not mandatory, but it is not a bad idea... could prevent a knock on the door in a few years. DOJ will want proof that the RAW has been removed from the state and sold, ask for copies of the FFL's paperwork. Make a copy with the buyer's information redacted and submit that.
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- Rich |
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Hi,
I did do a search and didn't find exactly what I was looking for, I also scanned through this thread and didn't see it asked here. If I missed it somewhere I apoligize. I also realize this thread is old, but I thought this the most relevent place to ask. I have a couple of "Registered Assult Weapons "RAW" I guess they are called, that I registered prior to the 01 ban. I have my little letter from DOJ telling it's ok for me to own them ect.. So I was under the impression that I coulde keep the Detachable mag feature, but nothing else? However in talking to my buddy, who has an 01 RAW as well, he was telling me we can do whatever want, forward grip/flash hider/folding stock, all the good stuff. What say you? Can I put a forward vertical grip on my pre 01 RAW? Can I put a Folding Stock (as long as over 26 folded/over 30 unfolded) on my Pre 01 RAW? Anything i Can't/Shouldn't do? |
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What you can/cannot or must do with Registered Assault Weapons (RAW)
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Yes to vertical forward grip. Yes to any other AW feature provided it is not fully-automatic (semi-automatic or manual fine with any features). Yes to folding, collapsible or telescoping stock if greater than 26” in shortest possible operating condition (will function to shoot as *semi-automatic*) (not able to shoot even single shot when less than 26” or possible SBR); some folding AR stock concepts still allow that single shot. Is always an assault weapon (RAW) even when defeatured or taken apart to only the lower... until it is deregistered. So transport and store it according to AW laws; locked case for any transport, locked storage only you have access to, transport only to or from home and legal shooting locations (may not have arbitrary destination while transporting). Andrew - Lancaster, CA NRA Life Member, CRPA member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / FPC / CCRKBA / GOA / NAGR / NRA-ILA contributor, USCCA member - Support your defenders! Last edited by lordmorgul; 10-24-2019 at 9:37 PM.. |
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True, I’ll edit my response on that point too. Andrew - Lancaster, CA NRA Life Member, CRPA member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / FPC / CCRKBA / GOA / NAGR / NRA-ILA contributor, USCCA member - Support your defenders! |
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Thanks for the reply guys, thats the basically the conclusion I had reached, just wanted to get a few other opinions. I am fimiliar with the storage/trasport guidelines, I've been doing those, just wanted to clarify configuration. I'll just keep the fixed stock for now.
Thanks again |
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Hum, can someone else chime in if they think this is true or not. If I melt one down to slag, you're telling me that the state would consider it a gun? It remains registered until unregistered, yes, but, it doesn't remain on AW unless is is one, no?
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#393
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What you can/cannot or must do with Registered Assault Weapons (RAW)
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Ok, as long as it remains a firearm component it is an RAW, it may be AW or not by feature at that time, but is still a RAW. It cannot be “just a lower receiver”. Yes you can destroy it, but the state will still consider you to own a RAW unless you can prove the puddle is the original part... so why would you want that? Andrew - Lancaster, CA NRA Life Member, CRPA member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / FPC / CCRKBA / GOA / NAGR / NRA-ILA contributor, USCCA member - Support your defenders! Last edited by lordmorgul; 10-26-2019 at 8:41 PM.. Reason: Made correction after review of thread |
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Hum, what do you make of this:
https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...let-button.pdf under hh and hh part 3? Do you disagree with them? Considering violations that make use of the definition in ca pc 30515, if hh part 3 states that a weapon lacking crucial part, for example, the bolt carrier in an AR-15 style fire arm is not semiautomatic, doesn't 30515 part 1, require the assault rifle to be semiautomatic? What's the purpose of stating in hh part 3, that a rifle isn't a semiautomatic for the purposes of 30515? Isn't it to invalidate when 30515 applies? Looking through https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1428620 even Librarian seems to say that: separated upper and lower are NOT an assault weapon. Do you agree/disagree? Did things change since he said it. Indeed the consensus in that thread seems to differ from your opinion. Why? Now, why am I curious, let's just say I have a friend that has a BBRAW and wants to avoid running afoul of 30945, your position is that separation (hh part 3) doesn't help you avoid pc 30945 violations? I'm wondering if others agree? Would I be correct in stating your opinion is that once a gun is registered as a BBRAW, it is by definition an AW, no matter hh, no matter part 3? |
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What you can/cannot or must do with Registered Assault Weapons (RAW)
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That is *NOT* exactly correct, I made corrections to what I have in this post below... but short on time to expand this minute.. see post #213 in thread, it is defined to be an RAW by registration in any form or configuration until it is deregistered, but may not actually have AW features at the time, so is no longer an AW by feature, but is still a RAW even without AW features; what then applies becomes gray. Keeping upper and lower in proximity is legally risky due to “broken AW” may apply. Otherwise, you’d just disassemble the upper, drive anywhere you like with it sitting on your car seat, put the upper back on and shoot... clearly that cannot be permissible. If so the transport requirements would have been just that simple. There are many who agree with what I said, and may eventually post to satiate your need for it, but it’s posted all over the RAW threads already if you search. I didn’t make it up. The best approach is consider any RAW as always AW, while that may not be strictly true all the time it is a lot less likely to get you stuck in a legal battle and your gun impounded. The disassembly clauses are really there to allow for an immediate fix to not be in a legal jeopardy situation on the day of registration closure. (If you decided not to register and did nothing else, you could disassemble and leave that way permanently) Re Librarians post, he said that in reference to an AW under new BBRAW definition prior to registration closure, for which another change hadn’t been done. This also allowed transport of the rifle legally prior to registration by disassembly during transport, see post #60 of this thread. Andrew - Lancaster, CA NRA Life Member, CRPA member, Calguns.net contributor, CGF / SAF / FPC / CCRKBA / GOA / NAGR / NRA-ILA contributor, USCCA member - Support your defenders! Last edited by lordmorgul; 10-26-2019 at 8:39 PM.. Reason: Had to review previous posts and correct first answers |
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To amplify lordmorgul's comments, and to attempt to unwind this issue a bit:
(Apologies for the length. ) Quote:
The responses you are challenging were made in the context of the original Assault Weapons ban, (prior to 2001) as noted in Aric75's post. Quote:
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Moving on. ///////////////////////////// Quote:
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But, you've raised some confusion over the new regulations, specifically 11 CCR 5471 (hh), indicating a belief that the mere separation of an AR15 platform upper and lower causes the weapon to no longer be an assault weapon. (As noted, above, the issue isn't "assault weapon", but is "registered" assault weapon.) So, let's look at that regulation: The provisions of 11 CCR 5471 (hh), don't define (or undefine) what is or isn't an AW. They merely define the term "semi-automatic". Quote:
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Separating the parts of a BBRAW doesn't change its characteristics or nature as a registered assault weapon with "semiautomatic, centerfire rifle" characteristics because that is the primary nature of its registration. If you separate the upper and lower, they are still identified as a BBRAW entity because the upper and lower are linked through registration. Once registered, the statute controls the weapon. So what is the purpose of subdivision (hh)? AR-type lowers are neither semiautomatic nor centerfire rifles (they used to be able to be made into pistols). When a bare AR lower is DROS'd, it is entered as a "long gun". At that point, you can put together a single shot or semiautomatic rifle in either centerfire or rimfire calibers, so the bare receiver can't be designated anything at that time. Those characteristics are defined only after one associates the upper with the lower. Until that point, the uppers and lowers, when separated, are not "semiautomatic" (nor are they centerfire) and so can't be deemed to be an assault rifle. The purpose, then, of the (hh) provisions is to differentiate separated lowers which haven't been registered as AWs (no centerfire designation; no semiautomatic designation) from those which are registered (semiautomatic, centerfire designation). Best.
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"People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.” "Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently-talented fool." "The things that come to those who wait may well be the things left by those who got there first." |
#398
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Any clarification on this?
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We’re ALL GOING TO DIE! Can’t somebody do something?!?!?!?! |
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Actually I have RAW and Non-RAW safes. My wife is a coapplicant but can’t remember how to open the safes LOL
All my RAWs and only my RAWs grow in the RAW safe.
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We’re ALL GOING TO DIE! Can’t somebody do something?!?!?!?! |
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