Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > 2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-10-2019, 5:15 PM
wolfwood's Avatar
wolfwood wolfwood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,275
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Hawaii Butterfly knife filed

Today I filed a case I've been wanting to file for about 7 years. Hawaii bans the ownership of butterfly knives for no apparent reason. Thankfully Burton Richardson Andrew Namiki Roberts and the Hawaii Firearms Coalition have teamed up with myself and my clients to challenge this unconstitutional law. Please look at the complaint and Burton's expert report.
https://www.scribd.com/document/4058...h-All-Exhibits
__________________
We are twice armed if we fight with faith.

― Plato

Last edited by wolfwood; 04-10-2019 at 9:03 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-10-2019, 6:04 PM
speedrrracer speedrrracer is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,119
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

I wonder if including this sort of discussion is wise:

Quote:
The old argument is that a switch blade or balisong is too dangerous to be entrusted to the public because a citizen can pull and quickly open the blade with one hand.
(snip)
Butterfly knife 1.3, 1.4. 1.2, 1.5 Average = 1.35 seconds
(emphasis mine)

Talking about speed, lethality, statistics -- all this seems like giving up territory and giving ammunition to the other side. So if balisongs were ultra-fast instead of slow on the draw should they continue to be banned? If their handles did not enclose the blade, should they continue to be banned? If they accounted for a higher percentage of murders in HI than pistols, should they continue to be banned?

Arms are supposed to be dangerous, lethal, etc. It's the whole point, and the reason why protecting the right to keep and bear them is so important. Opening the door to arbitrary measures as a reason why weapon X is OK will eventually backfire against us, because there is no limit to which arbitrary measures of safety / speed / lethality can be introduced, and it won't take long until the antis will find those arbitrary measures which favor their side, and then what?

None of this should be taken as a criticism of your great work, just having a discussion and trying to learn from the man on the front lines!
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-10-2019, 6:35 PM
wolfwood's Avatar
wolfwood wolfwood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,275
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

New Mexico Supreme Court already upheld its switchblade ban on the basis that switchblade deploy quickly so that study is there to distinguish that case.
__________________
We are twice armed if we fight with faith.

― Plato
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-10-2019, 6:57 PM
Unbekannt Unbekannt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 353
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Traditional Chinese Martial Arts also have what they call a Butterfly knives. These are actually paired, rather broad, flat blades maybe 18 inches long. They are used like nunchucks in their motion. These are basically Bronze Age weapons and really have no practical value in the modern world except as a training tool.

Your butterfly knives are different from these but I am wondering if these Chinese knives were banned in Hawaii too?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-10-2019, 7:10 PM
skyblue314 skyblue314 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 103
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
Today I filed a case I've been wanting to file for about 7 years. Hawaii bans the ownership of butterfly knives for no apparent reason. Thankfully Burton Richardson Andrew Namiki Roberts and the Hawaii Firearms Coalition have teamed up with myself and my clients to challenge this unconstitutional law. Please look at the complaint and Burton's expert report.



https://www.scribd.com/document/4058...ith-Burton-Dec
I'd love someone to file suit in California too. They aren't illegal to own, but sales are still banned.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-10-2019, 7:16 PM
readysetgo's Avatar
readysetgo readysetgo is online now
Win win win win
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Ventura County, Caught Between My Woman And My Pistol And My Chips
Posts: 8,503
iTrader: 42 / 100%
Default

Free the balisong!

Did you reach out/coordinate with KnifeRights?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICommittee
Founder, President, CEO of the Committee of We "What We says goes"
Stand up and be counted, or lay down and be mounted... -Mac

Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-10-2019, 7:16 PM
M1NM's Avatar
M1NM M1NM is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: West Covina
Posts: 6,191
iTrader: 48 / 100%
Default

You need to look no further than the flag of Hawaii as to why they would adopt English style knife bans.
1200px-Flag_of_Hawaii.svg.jpg
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-10-2019, 7:21 PM
wolfwood's Avatar
wolfwood wolfwood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,275
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by readysetgo View Post
Free the balisong!

Did you reach out/coordinate with KnifeRights?
I tried they did not seem interested.

That is okay. I used to train with Burton back on the Island. I mostly compete in jiu jitsu but I trained knife and stick fighting for a long time. Burton and I know more than any expert the state if going to be able to find.
__________________
We are twice armed if we fight with faith.

― Plato
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-10-2019, 7:55 PM
bohoki's Avatar
bohoki bohoki is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: 92688
Posts: 18,651
iTrader: 20 / 100%
Default

reminds me of that new york nunchuck lawsuit
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-10-2019, 8:04 PM
wolfwood's Avatar
wolfwood wolfwood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,275
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bohoki View Post
reminds me of that new york nunchuck lawsuit
California also ban nunchucks. I think that would be a good case down the road in light of the NY ruling
__________________
We are twice armed if we fight with faith.

― Plato
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-10-2019, 8:27 PM
pacrat pacrat is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Socialist Republic of SoCal
Posts: 6,190
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
the right of the people to keep and bear ARMS, shall not be infringed.
No mention of just firearms.

GO GET EM WOLFIE
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-19-2019, 8:23 AM
Mrbroom's Avatar
Mrbroom Mrbroom is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 344
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfwood View Post
California also ban nunchucks. I think that would be a good case down the road in light of the NY ruling
My daughters Tae Kwon Do school still teaches with nunchucks. I dont know the exact wording of the law however they are allowed to own them and teach. My daughter who will be testing for her black belt in a few months will be able to purchase and own them once that level is achieved according to our studio. Maybe a martial arts enthusiast exemption or something.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-19-2019, 8:55 AM
wpod's Avatar
wpod wpod is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Arizona
Posts: 2,018
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrbroom View Post
My daughters Tae Kwon Do school still teaches with nunchucks. I dont know the exact wording of the law however they are allowed to own them and teach. My daughter who will be testing for her black belt in a few months will be able to purchase and own them once that level is achieved according to our studio. Maybe a martial arts enthusiast exemption or something.
They can be owned for demonstration/competition use onlyaq

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-19-2019, 10:22 AM
357manny's Avatar
357manny 357manny is offline
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: PRK
Posts: 1,366
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Awesome, thank you sir for filing!

Here's another article detailing your efforts:
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/04/haw...ndment-grounds
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-01-2019, 4:59 PM
wolfwood's Avatar
wolfwood wolfwood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,275
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

the state filed its discovery responses.

https://www.scribd.com/document/4201...6G9ZQLNWxSa3SU

https://www.scribd.com/document/4201...R7hXo3z-iiaqXE

https://www.scribd.com/document/4201...T7_fASlFobQNDE
__________________
We are twice armed if we fight with faith.

― Plato
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-01-2019, 7:24 PM
DisgruntledReaper's Avatar
DisgruntledReaper DisgruntledReaper is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Orange County
Posts: 1,763
iTrader: 37 / 100%
Default

So these cork suckers basically dont want to cough anyhthing up and cry and whine and object to everything...

Well,in the future we the firearm and knife owning public should be able to cite the same reasons or variations of,such as how vague and ambiguous various gun control laws are and the fact that they are intentionally vague cannot be accurately interpreted and cause pain and burden upon us...

What a bunch of tools,worthless,id be on their asses for being incompetent in the job and duties.

I wish you luck and hopefully someone with balls calks them out on their bs.
__________________
'There is no theory of evolution, just a list of creatures Chuck Norris allows to live.'

'I have so many good karma points I am approaching Saint Hood'

"They tell you of a laundry detergent that takes out bloodstains- I'm thinking that if you have clothes covered in bloodstains-maybe laundry isn't your biggest problem"

[SIGPIC]http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/signaturepics/sigpic27069_2.gif[/SIGPIC]
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-01-2019, 8:56 PM
aBrowningfan aBrowningfan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,102
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrbroom View Post
My daughters Tae Kwon Do school still teaches with nunchucks. I dont know the exact wording of the law however they are allowed to own them and teach. My daughter who will be testing for her black belt in a few months will be able to purchase and own them once that level is achieved according to our studio. Maybe a martial arts enthusiast exemption or something.
The CA ban on nunchaku would seem to be a good opportunity for a test case: https://www.mantecabulletin.com/opin...ng-overturned/
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-01-2019, 8:58 PM
hermosabeach's Avatar
hermosabeach hermosabeach is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 13,077
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

My machete is already open
__________________




Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-01-2019, 9:02 PM
Sir Toast's Avatar
Sir Toast Sir Toast is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,105
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

But the children? ?????
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-04-2019, 11:57 PM
saki302's Avatar
saki302 saki302 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 6,846
iTrader: 94 / 100%
Default

Haha, nunchucks would be cool to own.. but are more dangerous to rhenuser unless you're trained in their use (I wasn't. nearly cracked an elbow when I was 12!)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 08-05-2019, 1:14 PM
wolfwood's Avatar
wolfwood wolfwood is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,275
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Initial disclosures filed.

https://www.scribd.com/document/4208...duIKKPO6znJW80
__________________
We are twice armed if we fight with faith.

― Plato
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-09-2019, 7:29 PM
BZB's Avatar
BZB BZB is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: This F'ed up state
Posts: 790
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by skyblue314 View Post
I'd love someone to file suit in California too. They aren't illegal to own, but sales are still banned.
What great laws we have. A while back, I bought a slightly smokey license plate cover from a local autoshop, got pulled over saying it's illegal to have a smokey plate cover, got a fix it ticket. If it's illegal to use, why allow to sell it at any place in this stupid state, unless the law is designed to make the state/city money, otherwise, it baffles me.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-12-2019, 9:40 PM
Paladin's Avatar
Paladin Paladin is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: SFBA
Posts: 9,273
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Be sure to edit the title of this thread with the case name and status.

__________________
Never mistake being delusional for being optimistic.

230+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives.

KnifeRights.org/images/KRbanner_468x60-1.gif
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-12-2019, 9:52 PM
Epaphroditus's Avatar
Epaphroditus Epaphroditus is offline
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Where the McRib runs wild and free!
Posts: 2,755
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Fixed blades are legal and already "open" so the speed argument is asinine. Brandishing laws already cover "scary" situations.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-14-2019, 5:52 PM
crufflers's Avatar
crufflers crufflers is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,379
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hermosabeach View Post
My machete is already open
My machete is in a canvas sheath with slow as hell snap closures.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:59 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2018, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
Calguns.net and The Calguns Foundation have no affiliation and are in no way related to each other.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.