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2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion Discuss California 2A related litigation and legal topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 07-20-2018, 8:32 AM
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Default Ninth Circuit Magazine Decision

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...ts-california/

Can any lawyers here tell me what this decision means? The 9th 'affirmed' the lower court injunction of the Calif magazine law, which banned 30 round magazines.

So, does this mean that I may purchase some of these magazines? If not, am I allowed to keep any that I might have in my possession?

Last edited by Slater1; 07-20-2018 at 8:41 AM..
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Old 07-20-2018, 8:35 AM
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You may go to prison for just asking this question in California.
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Old 07-20-2018, 8:38 AM
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Many liberals are lemmings and will follow whomever espouses what they 'feel'.
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Old 07-20-2018, 8:39 AM
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Means the temporary restraining order may stand for now. Will likely go to the full 9th cir. And be shot down.
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Old 07-20-2018, 8:41 AM
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Not a lawyer, but my understanding is that the injunction put in place by a lower court was upheld and nothing more. So you can keep pre importation/manufacture ban magazines while the trial continues in the lower court concerning the ban on possession. Many of the titles of articles and posts are misleading
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Old 07-20-2018, 8:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater1 View Post
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/...ts-california/



Can any lawyers here tell me what this decision means? The 9th 'affirmed' the lower court injunction of the Calif magazine law banning 30 round magazines.



So, can I purchase some of these magazines or am I allowed to keep any that I might have in my possession?


You cannot purchase mags with a capacity of more than 10 rounds. You are allowed to keep mags with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds if you acquired them before the 2000. All the court did was uphold an injunction against Prop 63 (2016) that retroactively banned legally acquired mags holding in excess of ten rounds. Stay tuned the actual case has not been heard (Duncan vs Becerra).


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Old 07-20-2018, 8:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
You may go to prison for just asking this question in California.

So, I should remove the post?
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Old 07-20-2018, 8:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
You cannot purchase mags with a capacity of more than 10 rounds. You are allowed to keep mags with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds if you acquired them before the 2000. All the court did was uphold an injunction against Prop 63 (2016) that retroactively banned legally acquired mags holding in excess of ten rounds. Stay tuned the actual case has not been heard (Duncan vs Becerra).


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Got it. Thank you.
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Old 07-20-2018, 8:48 AM
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Popcorn is when the show is going to be entertaining.

I think we had better get Judge Kavanaugh confirmed before the elections.
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Old 07-20-2018, 8:50 AM
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Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
Means the temporary restraining order may stand for now. Will likely go to the full 9th cir. And be shot down.
Thank you, CalBar. Please tell me that Brett Kavanaugh will be confirmed.
  #11  
Old 07-20-2018, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slater1 View Post
Popcorn is when the show is going to be entertaining.
Because you posted this in National politics, not CA. This is not national. Because there's already a thread on it, had you just searched... with all the answers to the question you asked.
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blade Gunner View Post
You cannot purchase mags with a capacity of more than 10 rounds. You are allowed to keep mags with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds if you acquired them before the 2000....or found them as the means of acquisition...
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Fixed that for you.

I have more than enough pre 2000 magazines but I did find 2 left over magazines at a shared LE-Company owned used by employees range. I could not find finding a magazine as verboten. Buy, sell, manufacture, import, offer to sell, blah, blah, blah, but no fell off the truck stipulation.

I do not recommend anyone claiming to have found the magazines they possess, just sayin, ya know!
  #13  
Old 07-23-2018, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Xerxes View Post
Fixed that for you.

I have more than enough pre 2000 magazines but I did find 2 left over magazines at a shared LE-Company owned used by employees range. I could not find finding a magazine as verboten. Buy, sell, manufacture, import, offer to sell, blah, blah, blah, but no fell off the truck stipulation.

I do not recommend anyone claiming to have found the magazines they possess, just sayin, ya know!
Here is the PC section covering receiving. Which would cover "finding" also.

32310.
(a) Except as provided in Article 2 (commencing with Section 32400) of this chapter and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, buys, or receives any large-capacity magazine is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.
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Old 07-23-2018, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ARDude View Post
Here is the PC section covering receiving. Which would cover "finding" also.
That change was enacted in 2014 (for whatever that's worth)

See the thread here
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Old 07-27-2018, 8:35 AM
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"You cannot purchase mags with a capacity of more than 10 rounds. You are allowed to keep mags with a capacity of greater than 10 rounds if you acquired them before the 2000. All the court did was uphold an injunction against Prop 63 (2016) that retroactively banned legally acquired mags holding in excess of ten rounds. Stay tuned the actual case has not been heard (Duncan vs Becerra)."

And so..just how does the "state" intend to determine the point in time when a particular "over 10 round capacity" magazine was acquired by the owner?
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Old 07-27-2018, 8:51 AM
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Have you ever heard the phrase "play stupid games, win stupid prizes?"

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Originally Posted by ulmapache View Post

And so..just how does the "state" intend to determine the point in time when a particular "over 10 round capacity" magazine was acquired by the owner?
  #17  
Old 07-27-2018, 9:13 AM
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And so..just how does the "state" intend to determine the point in time when a particular "over 10 round capacity" magazine was acquired by the owner?
The gun that the magazine was designed to fit wasn't in production until 2011?
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Unbekannt View Post
You may go to prison for just asking this question in California.
No, our prisons are too full. Jail as well. But you might lose your job over it and if you keep it up you might end up in a reeducation camp.
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Old 07-27-2018, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by slayer61 View Post
The gun that the magazine was designed to fit wasn't in production until 2011?
actually you can have magazines for guns up till 2015, since the punishment for having a +10 magazine is a misdemeanor which carries only a statute of limitations of 3 years from when the crime occurred.

so if you illegally imported/manufactured/bought a +10 magazine in July 26 2015 you would be free and clear today, July 27 2018 since it is now past 3 years since the commission of your crime.

but some may argue that the ongoing possession of the magazine means you are breaking the law on a continuous basis, thus you can be arrested and charged until the end of time as long as you kept the magazine that was acquired illegally.

so it really boils down to, how much money you have to pay for the best lawyer, and what other charges are being bought against you.
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Old 02-06-2019, 2:10 PM
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Been a while, any knowledge of this being, uhm, "tested"?
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Old 02-06-2019, 2:14 PM
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Been a while, any knowledge of this being, uhm, "tested"?
Nothing has changed. Still pending.
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Old 02-06-2019, 2:30 PM
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Nothing has changed. Still pending.
Understood. I meant, "has anyone been arrested and used this as a defense"? I guess I should have just typed that... Was chatting with my friend & neighbor, a San Jose officer and I mentioned this. He looked at me and as good advice said, "you better keep a copy of that on you man, there's plenty of guys that would just jam you up- they aren't going to chase that down order".

Last edited by NorCalBusa; 02-06-2019 at 2:33 PM..
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Old 02-06-2019, 2:36 PM
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Originally Posted by NorCalBusa View Post
Understood. I meant, "has anyone been arrested and used this as a defense"? I guess I should have just typed that... Was chatting with my friend & neighbor, a San Jose officer and I mentioned this. He looked at me and as good advice said, "you better keep a copy of that on you man, there's plenty of guys that would just jam you up- they aren't going to chase that down order".
There's no data reporting service that would report persons arrested statewide by charge. I've been following the topic and am not anecdotally aware of any.

The trial court issued an injunction to specific LEOs to prevent enforcement of the possession clause of the new law. When that happens, it's pretty much a universal practice for even non-named LE agencies to respect the terms of the injunction and withhold enforcement pending resolution of the trial issues.
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Old 02-06-2019, 8:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
actually you can have magazines for guns up till 2015, since the punishment for having a +10 magazine is a misdemeanor which carries only a statute of limitations of 3 years from when the crime occurred.

so if you illegally imported/manufactured/bought a +10 magazine in July 26 2015 you would be free and clear today, July 27 2018 since it is now past 3 years since the commission of your crime.

but some may argue that the ongoing possession of the magazine means you are breaking the law on a continuous basis, thus you can be arrested and charged until the end of time as long as you kept the magazine that was acquired illegally.

so it really boils down to, how much money you have to pay for the best lawyer, and what other charges are being bought against you.
Under your hypothetical, you could not be convicted of illegal importation (assuming you could prove the date of importation) but you would still be liable for simple possession of the prohibited magazine, for which there would be no statute of limitations issue.
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Old 02-07-2019, 8:54 AM
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The 9th will uphold it and the SC will dodge it, as usual.
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Old 02-07-2019, 9:06 AM
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Do you ever post anything with substance? All you do is depressingly ***** about things that haven't happened yet.

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The 9th will uphold it and the SC will dodge it, as usual.
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Old 02-07-2019, 9:25 AM
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Do you ever post anything with substance? All you do is depressingly ***** about things that haven't happened yet.
Sadly, I believe him to be right on the money on that prediction. All you have to do is look at history. That exact thing has happened over half a dozen times in connection with firearms cases and the 9th cir.
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:02 AM
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Do you ever post anything with substance? All you do is depressingly ***** about things that haven't happened yet.
I would say he is posting what he (and many others, including myself) see for the reality that they are, directly based on what has happened in the past.
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Old 02-07-2019, 10:32 AM
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The fact that an injunction even exists is proof that the past is not a good predictor. I would also take exception to the casual dismissal of what the Supreme Court may do, seeing as again, that courts make up has changed. I don't expect (or want) people running around saying we will all have Class III's and concealed carry in two weeks, but this kind of mopey defeatism is getting old. Keep an open mind.

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I would say he is posting what he (and many others, including myself) see for the reality that they are, directly based on what has happened in the past.

Last edited by mit31; 02-07-2019 at 10:35 AM..
  #30  
Old 02-07-2019, 12:06 PM
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Main thread on this is Duncan V Becerra, http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1335810
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