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  #1  
Old 10-18-2019, 8:17 PM
Mrbeans Mrbeans is offline
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Default Bullet button raw

Anyone heard anything new regarding putting a standard mag release on a bbraw? A friend attended a LE DOJ update class not too long ago. The DOJ guy told everyone the regs say the bullet button has to stay but there’s no enforcement section in the penal code. Kinda like being able to use 30 round mags In registered bbraw’s. He said basically there is nothing the DOJ can do because there’s no other charge and you can’t make an “assault rifle” an “extra assaulty rifle”. There all just RAW’s either way. Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2019, 8:18 PM
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Still a no
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  #3  
Old 10-18-2019, 8:29 PM
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Can we get the DOJ materials the LEOs get in these classes? Freedom of information?

Wouldn't it be good to know what DOJ is telling everyone. At least we can have an idea of how they want to enforce these new crazy laws.
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  #4  
Old 10-18-2019, 8:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrbeans View Post
Anyone heard anything new regarding putting a standard mag release on a bbraw? A friend attended a LE DOJ update class not too long ago. The DOJ guy told everyone the regs say the bullet button has to stay but there’s no enforcement section in the penal code. Kinda like being able to use 30 round mags In registered bbraw’s. He said basically there is nothing the DOJ can do because there’s no other charge and you can’t make an “assault rifle” an “extra assaulty rifle”. There all just RAW’s either way. Thoughts?
Nothing new.

CA DOJ regulations still in effect.

Removing the "bullet button" style magazine release on the RAW makes it into a different non-registered AW. [11 CCR 5477(a)]
^Exemptions for repair/replacement with another "bullet button" style magazine release or done during the deregistration process. [11 CCR 5477(b)&(c)]


There are no CA laws and no CA DOJ regulations that restricts or prohibits the use of large capacity magazines in a RAW.
^Including RAW with "bullet button" style magazine release.
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Last edited by Quiet; 10-18-2019 at 8:33 PM..
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  #5  
Old 10-19-2019, 11:44 AM
Drew Eckhardt Drew Eckhardt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrbeans View Post
Anyone heard anything new regarding putting a standard mag release on a bbraw? A friend attended a LE DOJ update class not too long ago. The DOJ guy told everyone the regs say the bullet button has to stay but there’s no enforcement section in the penal code.
No.

11 CCR 5477 states
Quote:
A weapon's eligibility for registration pursuant to Penal Code section 30900, subdivision (b)(1) depends, in part, on its release mechanism. Any alteration to the release mechanism converts the assault weapon into a different weapon from the one that was registered.
where the new assault weapon is not registered.

At a minimum, you end up possessing an unregistered assault weapon in violation of PC 30605 punishable by 3 years in prison.

An anti-gun DA will also charge you with PC 30600 manufacturing good for 8 years in prison.

Quote:
Kinda like being able to use 30 round mags In registered bbraw’s
There is no law or regulation prohibiting 30 round magazine use in BBRAWs.

Before the law changed, using a 30 round magazine in a BB firearm created an assault weapon per PC 30515(a)(2)
Quote:
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
After, you already have an assault weapon so that's not an issue.

People including gun shop employees and police officers often base their statements on what they've heard, not reading the law.

Start with legal opinion from a firm like Michel & Associates specializing in firearm law, read the law yourself, and be more or less conservative than the lawyers suggest based on your risk tolerance.

If you rightfully conclude it's BS under the Second Amendment and become a test case, I'll donate $200 to your gofundme legal defense fund.

If you sell all your semiautomatic firearms because an anti-gun DA might go after your spouse for illegal assault weapon possession they can buy an angle grinder at Home Depot then cut your safe open, I'll buy you a beer and counsel you about moving someplace else you won't live in fear.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 10-19-2019 at 5:12 PM..
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  #6  
Old 10-19-2019, 1:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Nothing new.

CA DOJ regulations still in effect.

Removing the "bullet button" style magazine release on the RAW makes it into a different non-registered AW. [11 CCR 5477(a)]
^Exemptions for repair/replacement with another "bullet button" style magazine release or done during the deregistration process. [11 CCR 5477(b)&(c)]


There are no CA laws and no CA DOJ regulations that restricts or prohibits the use of large capacity magazines in a RAW.
^Including RAW with "bullet button" style magazine release.
So are you saying that I can un-register my BBRAWs by removing the BBs and sending them to the CA DOJ?
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  #7  
Old 10-19-2019, 2:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrbeans View Post
Anyone heard anything new regarding putting a standard mag release on a bbraw? A friend attended a LE DOJ update class not too long ago. The DOJ guy told everyone the regs say the bullet button has to stay but there’s no enforcement section in the penal code. Kinda like being able to use 30 round mags In registered bbraw’s. He said basically there is nothing the DOJ can do because there’s no other charge and you can’t make an “assault rifle” an “extra assaulty rifle”. There all just RAW’s either way. Thoughts?
Stop using the terms 'Assault Weapon' and 'Assault Rifle' interchangeably. They are not synonymous.

By doing so, you are hurting the cause. Those are my thoughts.
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  #8  
Old 11-04-2019, 6:20 AM
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My wife just got some emails from CFARS-PROD <BOFcris@doj.ca.gov> Other than identify some of the BBAWs she attempted to co-register with me, they say: "The California Department of Justice has received your electronic AB 1135/SB 880 Assault Weapon Registration and will begin processing your submission. You will be notified of the results via U.S. Mail. If you have any questions, please use the Report an Issue feature in the CFARS application https://cfars.doj.ca.gov. For questions regarding your account, please email the Bureau of Firearms at: bofcris@doj.ca.gov"

This seems strange given that they objected to how she completed the co-registration forms shortly after they were submitted. If I recall correctly, she stated that she got them from me, rather than the seller, I got them from. And with respect to one, she stated that the firearm had been manufactured in the US and I said that it was manufactured in CA. Knowing that we were moving to Idaho, she just ignored them at that time.

Are they going back and reviewing these old submittals? Should she notify them of our Idaho mailing address?
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  #9  
Old 11-04-2019, 7:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
My wife just got some emails from CFARS-PROD <BOFcris@doj.ca.gov> Other than identify some of the BBAWs she attempted to co-register with me, they say: "The California Department of Justice has received your electronic AB 1135/SB 880 Assault Weapon Registration and will begin processing your submission. You will be notified of the results via U.S. Mail. If you have any questions, please use the Report an Issue feature in the CFARS application https://cfars.doj.ca.gov. For questions regarding your account, please email the Bureau of Firearms at: bofcris@doj.ca.gov"

This seems strange given that they objected to how she completed the co-registration forms shortly after they were submitted. If I recall correctly, she stated that she got them from me, rather than the seller, I got them from. And with respect to one, she stated that the firearm had been manufactured in the US and I said that it was manufactured in CA. Knowing that we were moving to Idaho, she just ignored them at that time.

Are they going back and reviewing these old submittals? Should she notify them of our Idaho mailing address?
Good on them for doing that. We still have a few applications hanging in limbo although for most we have the "letter."

I wouldn't notify them as long as you can receive your letter as they will not forward the registration letter. If she ever receives her letter, consider it a bonus as she will always have the privilege to bring the RAW/RAW's back into CA for hunting, classes, etc.


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Old 11-04-2019, 9:15 AM
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Default Bullet button raw

Quote:
Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
So are you saying that I can un-register my BBRAWs by removing the BBs and sending them to the CA DOJ?


No, but it seems that you can in the DOJ estimation have a RAW registered (to you) and have an unregistered AW simultaneously which have the same serial number. Obviously one of those is an issue...


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  #11  
Old 11-04-2019, 9:52 AM
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you cannot switch to a standard mag release because that would put the gun in a different status but it is unknown if say a radlock came unscrewed a bit or a mag magnet was placed in a bullet button
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Old 11-04-2019, 9:56 AM
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But, converting the RAW rifle to 26" and allowing folding stock and pistol grip on RAW shotgun does not change it into a different firearm that was registered and is perfectly OK and legal per DOJ website.

https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/regagunfaqs

Quote:
33. What changes can I make to my assault weapon after I register it?

The AB 1135/SB 880 assault weapons regulations created by DOJ state that the bullet button style release must remain on the firearm. The owner should not shorten a rifle barrel below 16” or the overall length under 26” (Penal Code 33210 and Penal Code 17170). The owner should not shorten a shotgun barrel below 18” or the overall length under 26” (Penal Code § 33210 and Penal Code § 17180). See the “key terms” section of the AB 1135/SB 880 assault weapons regulations.
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  #13  
Old 11-04-2019, 10:03 AM
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There is litigation ongoing over this BB removal regulation. Cal DoJ trying to add a restriction that the legislature did not.
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  #14  
Old 11-04-2019, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by bohoki View Post
you cannot switch to a standard mag release because that would put the gun in a different status but it is unknown if say a radlock came unscrewed a bit or a mag magnet was placed in a bullet button
I agree that would put them in a different status in CA. But I'm in Idaho where there is no such thing as an AW and registration is prohibited by Article I, section 11 of the Idaho Constitution. "....No law shall impose licensure, registration or special taxation on the ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition."
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Old 11-04-2019, 3:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAJ475 View Post
I agree that would put them in a different status in CA. But I'm in Idaho where there is no such thing as an AW and registration is prohibited by Article I, section 11 of the Idaho Constitution. "....No law shall impose licensure, registration or special taxation on the ownership or possession of firearms or ammunition."
If the BBAW is presently located in ID, and you want to modify it to remove the BB, as long as the firearm remains in ID, then ID law applies to the firearm. You are possessing the firearm in ID, not CA.
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Old 11-04-2019, 5:59 PM
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I see nothing in the AB 1135 law that says you have to keep the bullet button on. If you bought and registered the firearm before 2016 as stated, you have a legally registered assault weapon in California. There were no updates made to the legislation that differentiated registered assault weapons prior to 2001 and the ones up to 2016. I have no skin in the game since I do not own nor have ever owned these type of firearms. Just a simple reading of the letter of the law as stated. State legislators dropped the ball in their lawmaking and DOJ is trying to bully people into complying with its politically charged interpretations of what people can legally have. Sorry, DOJ can pound sand. They shouldn't have allowed their pet state legislature full of incompetent people who don't understand firearms to write up the laws without DOJ assistance. Oops! What was the phrase DOJ coined in that court case again? An Iggy is a tool? Something along those lines

(b) (1) Any person who, from January 1, 2001, to December 31, 2016, inclusive, lawfully possessed an assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine, as defined in Section 30515, including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, shall register the firearm before January 1, 2018, but not before the effective date of the regulations adopted pursuant to paragraph (5), with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish by regulation pursuant to paragraph (5).
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Old 11-04-2019, 6:10 PM
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^^^ That’s why CRPA filed suit against the Cal DoJ for trying to expand the law.
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Old 11-05-2019, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Milsurp1 View Post
There is litigation ongoing over this BB removal regulation. Cal DoJ trying to add a restriction that the legislature did not.
Which case is this so I can check out the briefs? Thanks.
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Old 11-05-2019, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by MajorSideburns View Post
I see nothing in the AB 1135 law that says you have to keep the bullet button on. If you bought and registered the firearm before 2016 as stated, you have a legally registered assault weapon in California. There were no updates made to the legislation that differentiated registered assault weapons prior to 2001 and the ones up to 2016. I have no skin in the game since I do not own nor have ever owned these type of firearms. Just a simple reading of the letter of the law as stated. State legislators dropped the ball in their lawmaking and DOJ is trying to bully people into complying with its politically charged interpretations of what people can legally have. Sorry, DOJ can pound sand. They shouldn't have allowed their pet state legislature full of incompetent people who don't understand firearms to write up the laws without DOJ assistance. Oops! What was the phrase DOJ coined in that court case again? An Iggy is a tool? Something along those lines

(b) (1) Any person who, from January 1, 2001, to December 31, 2016, inclusive, lawfully possessed an assault weapon that does not have a fixed magazine, as defined in Section 30515, including those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed from the firearm with the use of a tool, shall register the firearm before January 1, 2018, but not before the effective date of the regulations adopted pursuant to paragraph (5), with the department pursuant to those procedures that the department may establish by regulation pursuant to paragraph (5).

That's because the requirement is not contained in the statute. It's contained in the regulations that were adopted pursuant to the statute.
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Old 11-05-2019, 11:54 AM
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Old 11-07-2019, 7:53 AM
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A little off topic but if I’m out shooting with the guys can any of them use my BBRAW In my presence?
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Old 11-07-2019, 8:13 AM
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Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
A little off topic but if I’m out shooting with the guys can any of them use my BBRAW In my presence?

If they are over 18 yrs old, at a formal public or private shooting facility only, yes.



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Old 11-07-2019, 9:30 AM
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Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
If they are over 18 yrs old, at a formal public or private shooting facility only, yes.



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So, not out in the sticks?
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Old 11-07-2019, 5:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lordmorgul View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by five.five-six View Post
A little off topic but if I’m out shooting with the guys can any of them use my BBRAW In my presence?
If they are over 18 yrs old, at a formal public or private shooting facility only, yes.
So, not out in the sticks?
The exemption that allows the registered owner of a RAW to loan the RAW to another person, that is 18 or older, only applies when the registered owner is physically present for the entire duration and the loan occurs at a licensed target range/facility or at a target range of a public/private club or at LE approved educational event/display. [PC 30660]

So, a loan of a RAW while "out in the sticks" would be a CA felony for the registered owner [PC 30600(a)] and a CA felony for the possessor [PC 30605(a)].



Penal Code 30660
(a) Section 30600 shall not apply to a person who lawfully possesses and has registered an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle pursuant to this chapter who lends that assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle to another person, if all the following requirements are satisfied:
(1) The person to whom the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is lent is 18 years of age or over and is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.
(2) The person to whom the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is lent remains in the presence of the registered possessor of the assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle.
(3) The assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is possessed at any of the following locations:
(A) While on a target range that holds a regulatory or business license for the purpose of practicing shooting at that target range.
(B) While on the premises of a target range of a public or private club or organization organized for the purpose of practicing shooting at targets.
(C) While attending any exhibition, display, or educational project that is about firearms and that is sponsored by, conducted under the auspices of, or approved by a law enforcement agency or a nationally or state recognized entity that fosters proficiency in, or promotes education about, firearms.
(b) Section 30600 shall not apply to the return of an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle to the registered possessor, or the lawful possessor, which is lent by that registered or lawful possessor pursuant to subdivision (a).
(c) Sections 30605 and 30610 shall not apply to the possession of an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle by a person to whom an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle is lent pursuant to subdivision (a).
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