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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 11-06-2021, 4:44 AM
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Default Chicago Reinstates Gun and Ammunition Tax After Court Deems It Unconstitutional

Chicago reinstates gun and ammunition tax after court deems it unconstitutional

Quote:
The Cook County Board of Commissioners reinstated its firearm and ammunition tax after it was struck down by the Illinois Supreme Court in October.

During Thursday's board of commissioners meeting, members voted to approve an amendment to a previous ordinance dealing with how firearms and ammunition are taxed in order to comply with an Oct. 21 Illinois Supreme Court ruling...

Under the ordinance, retail purchases are subject to a $25 tax for each firearm purchased. Centerfire ammunition is taxed at $0.05 per cartridge, and rimfire ammunition is taxed at $0.01 per cartridge.

The board voted to tax firearms in 2012 and amended the tax in 2015 to include ammunition...
The case being referred to is... GUNS SAVE LIFE, INC., et al. v. ZAHRA ALI, Director of the Department of Revenue of Cook County, et al.

More details can be found in a Chicago Tribune piece linked to in the FOX News Report... Cook County guns and ammo tax, struck down by Illinois Supreme Court, is back on the books for now after Thursday board vote

Quote:
...In a 12-2 vote, with three commissioners absent, the county board approved the amendment, which states all revenue from the firearm and ammunition tax must go toward programs or operations geared toward gun violence prevention. The passage follows an Oct. 21 ruling from the state’s highest court that found the levy was unconstitutional...

The board’s two Republican commissioners, Sean Morrison and Peter Silvestri, opposed the amendment. Before the vote, Morrison read a separate opinion from Illinois Supreme Court Justice Michael Burke that said, “The majority’s analysis wrongly leaves the door open for a municipality to enact a future tax on firearms or ammunition that is more narrowly tailored to the purpose of ameliorating the cost of gun violence.”

Burke also wrote, “The only problem with that approach is that it would still violate the Illinois Constitution.”...

Commissioner Larry Suffredin, a Democrat and vocal gun control advocate, brushed off Morrison’s warnings. He noted that Burke was acting as a “lone justice” when he issued his opinion against future taxes with a narrower focus.

“Commissioner Morrison tries to literally read a Supreme Court decision without understanding the interaction of the constitution,” Suffredin said. “We are well within the time frame that is allowed under the law. We are acting in good faith here.”

Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 11-06-2021 at 5:14 AM..
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  #2  
Old 11-06-2021, 7:00 AM
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They found weasel words and have turned them into a loophole that will result in another lawsuit which they will lose after spending a few hundred thousand in tax dollars defending it.
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Old 11-06-2021, 8:29 AM
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Judge Roy Bean once supposedly ripped a page out of a law book after a lawyer showed him the law.
He replied " Thats a damned poor law "

Its probably time elected republicans follow Chicago's lead and do what's right. Instead of following stupid laws, passed by those who will enslave us.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:06 AM
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Judge Roy Bean and Sheriff Joe Arpaio are showcase Americans
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rplaw View Post
They found weasel words and have turned them into a loophole that will result in another lawsuit which they will lose after spending a few hundred thousand in tax dollars defending it.
They will use their own city/county lawyers. In the meantime they'll collect $1 on every box of centerfire ammo and 5.00 on a brick of 22 add the $25 per gun and the 2-3 year time frame and they'll be getting a lot of cash.
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Old 11-06-2021, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan_Eastvale View Post
Judge Roy Bean and Sheriff Joe Arpaio are showcase Americans
Where did Joe Arpaio ignore a law ?
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Old 11-06-2021, 12:30 PM
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Chicago's politicians know better than anyone else - that's why their city is such a paradise.
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Old 11-06-2021, 3:40 PM
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San Leandro has this law on the books even though they ran the last gun shop out of town ten years ago. While it was in effect, every pressure group in town was trying to get its hands on "the gun tax money."

That's what they called it and that's how they saw it, and if you think Chicago is going to spend any large part of this money on "gun crime victims" I have a bridge to sell you.
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Old 11-06-2021, 5:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aklon View Post
San Leandro has this law on the books even though they ran the last gun shop out of town ten years ago. While it was in effect, every pressure group in town was trying to get its hands on "the gun tax money."

That's what they called it and that's how they saw it, and if you think Chicago is going to spend any large part of this money on "gun crime victims" I have a bridge to sell you.
From the Chicago Tribune piece in the OP...

Quote:
Previously, the $1.6 million annual revenue from the guns and ammunition tax was used for the county’s public safety fund, which includes the criminal justice system.
Right now, they are simply attempting to do an end around on the decision by making it appear as though they are in compliance with it. But, just as California typically does, I'm sure that, sooner rather than later, it will be swept into their equivalent of a 'general fund' and there will be no determining what, exactly, it was spent on or whose pockets it made it to.
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Old 11-06-2021, 5:51 PM
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Court decision clearly gave them the opening. Chicago just followed what the court said in their opinion.
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Old 11-06-2021, 6:49 PM
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How hard would it be for a watchdog group to monitor the proposed spending?
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  #12  
Old 11-06-2021, 6:54 PM
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Can't let some pesky constitution written by a bunch of dead white men slow their agenda...
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Old 11-06-2021, 8:30 PM
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Wondering when the first lawyer will do a class action suit to get the money back for their clients that buy guns and ammo.
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Old 11-06-2021, 9:42 PM
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What was the purpose of filing suit against the ordinance as originally worded and operated if such an obvious and easily obtained work around was available to Chicago?

Substantial time, effort and money spent to overturn an ordinance that took no time, little effort and money to reinstate?
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Old 11-06-2021, 10:36 PM
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Contempt of court. The electric chair should do the trick.
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Old 11-07-2021, 6:50 AM
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Yet again the Democratic Party “we are the party for the poor and oppressed minorities” enacts an unconstitutional law that predominantly impacts the 2A rights of the poor and minorities. Democrats then say to minorities “you don’t need guns to protect yourselves, that’s what law enforcement is for …”, and then they defund the police, get rid of bail, release convicted perps due to ‘overcrowding’, and put liberal DAs in place that won’t charge anything but the most serious violent crimes and release perps back onto the streets the same day they are arrested. An yet minorities still predominantly vote for Democrats. Huh? And Democrats call conservatives racists and ‘oppressors’? Talk about Stockholm syndrome.
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Old 11-07-2021, 6:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcasa View Post
Yet again the Democratic Party “we are the party for the poor and oppressed minorities” enacts an unconstitutional law that predominantly impacts the 2A rights of the poor and minorities. Democrats then say to minorities “you don’t need guns to protect yourselves, that’s what law enforcement is for …”, and then they defund the police, get rid of bail, release convicted perps due to ‘overcrowding’, and put liberal DAs in place that won’t charge anything but the most serious violent crimes and release perps back onto the streets the same day they are arrested. An yet minorities still predominantly vote for Democrats. Huh? And Democrats call conservatives racists and ‘oppressors’? Talk about Stockholm syndrome.
Perfectly stated and delightfully accurate !
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Old 11-07-2021, 10:41 AM
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So a poll tax would be valid if the proceeds are used for voter education?

Screw 'em.
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Old 11-07-2021, 2:04 PM
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They're taxing those law abiding gun owners to pay for the damage caused by those who don't follow the law. Makes sense.
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Old 11-08-2021, 5:12 PM
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Chicago won't make a dime if no one legitimately buys any ammo there. And Beetlejuice's favorite "constituents," ghetto thugs and gangbangers, don't pay taxes anyway. Tough luck for those who sell ammo in the city limits, but you get what you or your neighbors voted for which in this case is politicians continuing to violate the Second Amendment despite a court ruling to the contrary.
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Old 11-08-2021, 5:43 PM
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The state Supreme Court ruling is what gave Chicago the (likely) easy out. The ruling that struck it down openly stated that it was struck because the tax spending was not related to the tax itself. If you look at the actual thread for this case on this forum, multiple people pointed this out.

Chicago just conformed the law to fix the problem the court spelled out in its ruling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfletcher View Post
What was the purpose of filing suit against the ordinance as originally worded and operated if such an obvious and easily obtained work around was available to Chicago?

Substantial time, effort and money spent to overturn an ordinance that took no time, little effort and money to reinstate?
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Old 11-08-2021, 11:33 PM
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Cook County Commissioners have been Democratic for decades.
They deserve this legislative POS.
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Old 11-09-2021, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mit31 View Post
The state Supreme Court ruling is what gave Chicago the (likely) easy out. The ruling that struck it down openly stated that it was struck because the tax spending was not related to the tax itself. If you look at the actual thread for this case on this forum, multiple people pointed this out.

Chicago just conformed the law to fix the problem the court spelled out in its ruling.
Here's the thread... Illinois Gun Tax Ruling: Win! Here was the prediction...

Quote:
Originally Posted by p7m8jg View Post
Good and not so good.

Concurring opinion points out how the decision leaves open the possibility of any municipality enacting a more narrowly tailored law where the proceeds of the tax specifically go to curbing gun violence.

Expect them to pass another tax soon.
As the one OP article stated, one of the Judges also noted the same issue. From the opinion (link in OP)...

Quote:
...Again, I believe that the majority’s analysis wrongly leaves the door open for a municipality to enact a future tax on firearms or ammunition that is more narrowly tailored to the purpose of ameliorating the cost of gun violence. The only problem with that approach is that it would still violate the Illinois Constitution.
Thus, even one of the Judges who concurred with the opinion pointed it out. As was summarized in this piece from Bloomberg Tax... Gun, Ammo Tax in Cook County Struck Down by Illinois High Court

Quote:
...The ordinances impose a burden on the exercise of a fundamental right protected by the Second Amendment, Justice Mary Jane Theis wrote for the court. While the taxes don’t directly burden the right to use a firearm for self-defense, they do directly burden the right to acquire a firearm and ammunition for self-defense, Theis said.

Under the uniformity clause, the taxes must bear a reasonable relationship to the object of the legislation or to public policy, Justice Theis wrote for the court. But the relationship between the tax classification and the use of tax proceeds isn’t sufficiently tied to the stated objective of ameliorating the costs that gun violence imposes on society, Theis said. The taxes therefore violate the Illinois constitution...
Put another way, while the taxes do impose a burden, if the Government's interest is sufficiently tailored, then the burden is Constitutional so far as some of the Judges on the Illinois Supreme Court are concerned. The issue being... How many feel that way (evidently, a majority as inferred from the concurring opinion)...

Quote:
I agree with the majority that Cook County’s special tax on firearms and ammunition violates the uniformity clause of the Illinois Constitution. Therefore, the appellate court’s judgment must be reversed and summary judgment entered on behalf of plaintiffs. I write separately because I believe that there is an even graver problem with the County’s tax that the majority should not ignore...
...and if it ever gets bumped to SCOTUS, would the Justices feel similarly?

Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 11-09-2021 at 1:04 AM..
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Old 11-12-2021, 2:55 PM
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Point of clarification: It is not "Chicago." It is Cook County (aka Crook County). Cook County is significantly larger than the City and incorporates a whole bunch of suburbs. There are more than 800 local governmental units and nearly 130 municipalities located partially or wholly within Cook County, and it is the second largest county by population in the US after LA. Over 40% of the state's residents live in the county.
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Old 01-12-2022, 3:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HibikiR View Post
How hard would it be for a watchdog group to monitor the proposed spending?
In Chicago? They'll launder...err...'disburse' the money extorted through so many departments/agencies/bureaus/and other assorted offices that you will NEVER be able to track ANY of the funds.

Lets not forget that this city is NOT any less corrupt than the Capone days, they've just had a lot more practice in the art and people just got tired of calling them out on it...
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Old 01-12-2022, 11:33 PM
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Guys... listen I keep saying this till I am blue in the face.. DUE PROCESS IS OVER.. the faster everybody realizes this, the faster we can go into the next phase to fixing all this...

Voting aint gonna work... spreading awareness aint going to work (the world already knows that this administration is dirty) wishing and hoping aint gonna work...

We are talking too much at this point... myself included...
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Old 01-13-2022, 8:14 AM
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Biden also ignores Supreme Court decisions. Remember the "remain in Mexico" crap?

Only a couple hundred have been sent back, the other 100k were released here.
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Old 01-13-2022, 1:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimi Jah View Post
Biden also ignores Supreme Court decisions. Remember the "remain in Mexico" crap?

Only a couple hundred have been sent back, the other 100k were released here.
It's going to be interesting ... now since they made the AKGB
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