Un-sporterizing an m1917 in .30-06?

[MissiontoMars]

Worth it? Fun project?

What benefits did sporterizing bring? Better ergo’s or mostly style?

Can I find stocks on eBay?

[CartridgeCalls]

Weight saving and versatility

[dfletcher]

Originally Posted by MissiontoMars

Worth it? Fun project?

What benefits did sporterizing bring? Better ergo’s or mostly style?

Can I find stocks on eBay?

I would go with Numrich or SARCO. Apex, Northridge too. So long as the metal is intact, no one ground off the rear sight wings and left the permanent parts as is, should be pretty straightforward.

Sporterizing military rifles was a common way of getting a good hunting rifle on the cheap.

[echo1]

I've got one that salvageable. I picked up the furniture first, from an estate sale, then looked for a good candidate. PAX

[LynnJr]

If the ears have been ground off and the hole in the receiver has been welded up I don't think you can unsporterize it.

[echo1]

Originally Posted by LynnJr

If the ears have been ground off and the hole in the receiver has been welded up I don't think you can unsporterize it.

If you're talking about mine (the above rifle), the metal is unmolested, or I wouldn't have gone for it. PAX

[MissiontoMars]

Definitely modified. Looks like maybe a diopter rear sight was mounted in place of the stock peep?
A4DD2347-3A06-47B7-9033-D5D832C198DC.jpg

[LynnJr]

Echo 1
Yours is not sporterized like the gun belonging to MissionfromMars.
It was common to unbolt everything from the receiver then using a bench grinder you would remove most of the ears then you finish it off with a file. Once that is done there is almost a circular hole left in the top of the receivers that they would then weld in or plug using silver solder or braze.
Once that is done it is all but impossible to replace. I will post a picture of mine after I eat some chocolate cream pie.

[MissiontoMars]

Originally Posted by LynnJr

If the ears have been ground off and the hole in the receiver has been welded up I don't think you can unsporterize it.

Thats what i was thinking. Thanks for confirming.

[MasterChief]

Speaking only for myself...I would first evaluate the rifle in its present sate.
Is it a low-end Bubba job or a high-end gunsmith conversion?
Some of the period sporter conversions are potentially more valuable than a well meaning desporterization.
Could you post detailed images of the rifle in question? Thanks.
Best wishes. Dave

[MissiontoMars]

Originally Posted by MasterChief

Speaking only for myself...I would first evaluate the rifle in its present sate.
Is it a low-end Bubba job or a high-end gunsmith conversion?
Some of the period sporter conversions are potentially more valuable than a well meaning desporterization.
Could you post detailed images of the rifle in question? Thanks.
Best wishes. Dave

Thanks, Dave. Only pic i have at the moment:

53C30CE0-1714-4951-9BD1-6CF893F270A8.jpg

[Mojaveman]

Can I find stocks on eBay?

Did an M1917 Enfield project about a year ago.

There are still a lot of parts out there.

[Kerplow]

I kinda like the period correct bare bones sporters. I’d rather have an unmolested example, but I think they’re neat in their own right.

[highpower]

From the extremely small pics posted, I would say that it is not going to be possible to restore that rifle. Save your money and just buy the best unmolested example you can find.

As a rule of thumb, once the sight ears have been removed, the front sight replaced with a ramp sight and the receiver has been drilled, the rifle is beyond saving.

[jigenax]

Restoration isn't possible with yours. The ears and original sights are gone. It also looks like the barrel was shortened. Best leave it as an example of that era of sporterized milsurps.

[MasterChief]

Yep, agree with the prevailing opinion...it's all it's ever going to be right now.
Is this a piece you own now? Or considering purchasing?
How much do/will you have in it, dollar-wise?
Also be sure to give due consideration to any aftermarket conversion parts, some of which can be valuable.
I suspect you may be looking at a quality sporter, worthy of some level of regard.
Oh, and howzit shoot?

Best wishes. Dave

[MissiontoMars]

Originally Posted by highpower

From the extremely small pics posted, I would say that it is not going to be possible to restore that rifle. Save your money and just buy the best unmolested example you can find.

As a rule of thumb, once the sight ears have been removed, the front sight replaced with a ramp sight and the receiver has been drilled, the rifle is beyond saving.

Yeah, sorry about that. My iPhone only posts teeny-tiny pics on this site.

And 10-4 on the assessment.

[dfletcher]

I'd wonder if it could be dropped into a Remington Model 30 stock. Sort of a "post transition restoration".

[echo1]

Originally Posted by MasterChief

Speaking only for myself...I would first evaluate the rifle in its present sate.
Is it a low-end Bubba job or a high-end gunsmith conversion?
Some of the period sporter conversions are potentially more valuable than a well meaning desporterization.
Could you post detailed images of the rifle in question? Thanks.
Best wishes. Dave

I've got a Smith Corona that's so well done I thought it was a Griffon & Howe. I took a bunch of pictures and sent them to G&H. The archivist was kind enough to respond and point out the differences. Was listed at the LGS as milsurp, PAX

[highpower]

Originally Posted by echo1

I've got a Smith Corona that's so well done I thought it was a Griffon & Howe. I took a bunch of pictures and sent them to G&H. The archivist was kind enough to respond and point out the differences. Was listed at the LGS as milsurp, PAX

From what I can see, (Photosuckit watermarks suck) that looks like a pretty nice rifle.

Which leads me to one of my pet peeves, which is the way people tend to condemn all modified military arms as Bubba jobs. While there has been some horrible things done to old surplus rifles, there are also some out there that are like yours.

I think it does a great disservice to the rifles that were nicely and in some cases, beautifully, converted into a sporting arm.

[eaglemike]

Originally Posted by highpower

From what I can see, (Photosuckit watermarks suck) that looks like a pretty nice rifle.

Which leads me to one of my pet peeves, which is the way people tend to condemn all modified military arms as Bubba jobs. While there has been some horrible things done to old surplus rifles, there are also some out there that are like yours.

I think it does a great disservice to the rifles that were nicely and in some cases, beautifully, converted into a sporting arm.

Agree with this. A guy wanted an original 1917 I had many years ago to do a conversion to 300 Win Mag. At one time it was (according to him) a very popular thing. Labor to do such a thing now in a nice manner is so expensive it's not worth thinking about. Just go buy a Tikka/R700/Bergara or whatever the current favorite happens to be.
I've seen some really really nice older mil-surp conversions at guns shows in the past. Just gorgeous work. (Also maybe 2X as many bubbas?) Anyone else remember when they were selling the mil-surp Swede 6.5 conversions cheap in Shotgun News?

[echo1]

On the 1917 Edddystone example I showed, you can't really see it in the one crappy picture, but the craftsmanship on that unit is in the woodwork. Floated barrel, pistol grip wrist, cheek riser, and butt extension. I've since painted that stock matt crinkle black, just so you couldn't see the seams. I've got all the furniture and metal bits for a complete restow (including bayo), but it doesn't bother me the way it is right now. PAX

[W.R.Buchanan]

I'M not a big fan of Re Militarizing a previously sporterized gun. I don't care what others think, and,,,,

First There are plenty more where that one came from, and Second, it won't be worth any more if you put it back to stock simply because there is plenty more where that one came from. it is a Mil Surplus Gun that has seen better days.

In case you didn't know Remington's entry in to the .30-06 Sporter Market was the Model 30 which was nothing more that a a sporterized 1917. They are excellent rifles and were made from surplus parts in the 1920's and 30's.

I couldn't believe the mountain of BS I got for altering my Enfield #4 Mk1, and what I did to it was make it into a L39 ( Target Rifle ) Replica. Mind you it was previously de milled by Parker Hale into a "Standard Sporting Rifle" after the war when PH was buying up British Surplus and making them into useful hunting rifles for sale both Here and in Canada. I could have easily put it back to stock form,, Except I didn't want a Stock #4 Mk1!



My retort was "It's my gun and I'll do what I want with it!", and in addition I said,,, "Plenty more where that one came from!" they said they haven't made any for 70+ years! I said "Plenty more where that one came from!"

If that gun was mine and it had a decent barrel I'd be looking to improve it's Sporter Status with some improvements to the stock like checkering and maybe a little better finish on the stock.

The gun is a perfect candidate for home Gun Smithing and learning how to re-finish and enhance, and I have been doing this for years. It is rewarding and there is unlimited help here and others places to tell you how to do everything. Look into Birchwood Casey Finishing products. They are easy to use and come with complete instructions which are almost impossible to screw up!

Just Remember when dealing with Mil Surplus, Unless it is something Super Rare,, " There's plenty more where that one came from!"

My .02

Randy

[echo1]

Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan

,,,,, it won't be worth any more if you put it back to stock...

Not entirely accurate. You have to look at it by the ducats involved with each piece. In my case, I ran across these guns and parts years ago at an estate sale for 4 hunnerd bucks. The bits and pieces will return the Eddystone back as well as an Enfield sport job with only the stock cut. Both rifles were bought for dirt. PAX

[California_Deplorable]

Not all sporter jobs are the same. Some are very crude others are very fine. Some just removed a few parts and dropped the action into a different stock or chopped up a milsurp stock. Really just depends on the condition of the action as to whether its worth it to unsporterize. Im of the leave it alone camp unless all you have to do is replace the stock.

And generally Im not going to pay much for a sporterized milsurp, even really nice ones. Well unless its a European made large ring Mauser action in a beautiful walnut stock. Still would have to be super cheap to get my interest.

[Wyatt Burp]

my dad had a Winchester 1917 .30-06 that had a shortened then overly varnished stock. I bought a replacement stock (Eddystone? Rings a bell) and was all set to make it original. Then I found the barrel had been shortened on the rifle. Since it was a project I was just mildly interested in I sold the rifle then later the stock to someone who did what I had planned to do. His rifle looked great and I was very happy for him. in another words, make sure your barrel is original length.

[LynnJr]

The pictures I forgot to post. This is a very simple sporter job.
Ears are ground off and the receiver has been plugged. An aftermarket trigger and barrel installed and the floorplate has been straightened. The pits have not been filed out and the safety has not been upgraded. I went with live center rings to avoid any potential alignment issues.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Originally Posted by highpower

From what I can see, (Photosuckit watermarks suck) that looks like a pretty nice rifle.

Which leads me to one of my pet peeves, which is the way people tend to condemn all modified military arms as Bubba jobs. While there has been some horrible things done to old surplus rifles, there are also some out there that are like yours.

I think it does a great disservice to the rifles that were nicely and in some cases, beautifully, converted into a sporting arm.

Yeah, and just look at how many Mausers have been converted but nobody ever complains about them.

This comes under the heading of "Plenty More where that one came from!"

[Jeff213]

I had one that had been similarly sporterized but not quite as well at one point. Barrel was chopped, front sight replaced with another front sight of some kind? It didn't work too well. I ended up having my friend turn the barrel down in his lathe and fit an original front sight with ears on it and traded it to someone for a non sporterized mauser, he just wanted a nice pig hunting rifle to carry with him in his ATV on his property.

[highpower]

Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan

Yeah, and just look at how many Mausers have been converted but nobody ever complains about them.

This comes under the heading of "Plenty More where that one came from!"

Actually there may be more out there, but original military Mausers that haven't been chopped up are escalating in price at an astounding rate.

As to a previous comment you posted, I have returned a great many military guns back into their original configuration. They are almost always worth more than they were as a sporter, if done correctly. The trouble is that the supply of reasonably priced, original stocks has pretty much dried up. The metal bits are still out there, but certainly not as cheap as they once were. All that tends to make re-militarizing a gun not as cost effective as it once was.

IMO, the only guns that make sense to put this kind of effort into are US military arms as they didn't serialize every part like nearly everyone else did with the possible exception of the British. At least with a US rifle like a '03 Springfield/ M1 Garand/ M1 Carbine, if you do the research, you can get the correct bits and pieces to replace what is missing or altered.

Of course it won't be original, but most military arms that have seen service have been repaired or upgraded over time by the issuing countries' arsenal system and aren't likely to be original anyway.

A couple of years ago I picked up a matching number WWII AC44 G43 for a decent price. The only real problem with it, was that sometime in the past some idiot hacked, gooned and sanded the matching number stock into oblivion. I did find a decent enough repop stock to use as a temporary replacement.

I am well aware that this rifle will never be original again and so far, finding a original G43 single recoil lug stock has proved to be impossible. However the rarity of G43's in the market place has driven the prices up to the point where even those with reproduction stocks are bringing more than I have in mine.

[bigbossman]

Originally Posted by California_Deplorable

Not all sporter jobs are the same. Some are very crude others are very fine. Some just removed a few parts and dropped the action into a different stock or chopped up a milsurp stock. Really just depends on the condition of the action as to whether its worth it to unsporterize. Im of the leave it alone camp unless all you have to do is replace the stock.

And generally Im not going to pay much for a sporterized milsurp, even really nice ones. Well unless its a European made large ring Mauser action in a beautiful walnut stock. Still would have to be super cheap to get my interest.

There was a time in my collecting that I actively looked for well done sporters. They were both beautiful and inexpensive. I've since sold them all, save for a Arisaka Type 99 that is just too nice to part with.