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Survival and Preparations Long and short term survival and 'prepping'.

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  #1  
Old 10-08-2019, 9:48 AM
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Default City dwellers.....Is bugging out possible??

I've been spending too much time building my BOB and just finally started to think about where I'd go if I needed to bug out. I sit in traffic going to work and traffic on Fridays getting home is pretty bad. This got me thinking about whether or not it would even be possible to bug out if I needed to. Assuming you live in the city, what are your thoughts on being able to get out of the city? I guess if you decided early on to leave it might be possible?
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Old 10-08-2019, 11:04 AM
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FAQ - comes to us all, eventually.

Early - really early, like a week or more - would probably work, but again, where would you go?

Cities would be horrendous, but even small towns can have limited access that makes evacuation difficult: see Paradise and last year's Camp Fire.
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Old 10-08-2019, 11:44 AM
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Urbanites should plan to tick in and keep your sound/sight signature as low as possible depending on what kind of emergency you're are experiencing. Quakes/fire/flood/zombie uprising etc. will require best case plans about where to go if you're caught in traffic/home. Look for places you can walk to along your route to/from work if you have to ditch your car. Google earth to view some way point possibilities. Log the lats/longs and print them out to keep in your BOB.

Bugging out doesn't necessarily mean out of the city. It could mean relocating to another safer place in the city area. Be prepared to live a bum's lifestyle for an unknown amount of time.
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:36 PM
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In short. NO. Too many people with NO WHERE to go. This isn't the East Coast. Outside our cities is DESERT! No water or resources to support you. Plan to bug in and wait for help. As discussed many many times, there just is NO natural disaster so large as to destroy the entire governmental system. SOMEONE will be coming in to get you be it State of Feds. It's all a matter of time.
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Old 10-08-2019, 12:38 PM
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Staying right where I'm at, in Suburbia. I have shelter, food, water, and guns. Tent goes up in the yard next to my captive (spa) water supply. Having been in the Fire service, I am familiar with the disaster management plans and capabilities of my city and surrounding county. Going to a strange locale would be foolish.
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Old 10-08-2019, 1:06 PM
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If no other choice then an adventure style motorcycle would a definite advantage.
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Old 10-08-2019, 1:32 PM
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OP, it is not possible. Bug out to where? Here? So I can support you? No. Stand and die like a man in place---no backward steps.
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Old 10-08-2019, 1:33 PM
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Bugging out may, or may not, be possible. Every road in and out of the Southland crosses a major fault. So in the event of a really bad earthquake, nobody's going anywhere.
At the same time, bugging in may not work either. Major earthquake, or other disaster, water lines will be destroyed. No power for pumps. Can't survive in summer temperatures for long with out water.
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Old 10-08-2019, 1:35 PM
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All the water, canned goods, and ammunition is right here in the concrete jungle. I’m buggin’ in.
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Old 10-08-2019, 1:54 PM
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Appreciate the comments. I have also come to that same conclusion as you guys that I will end up staying put as long as my house is safe to stay in. I think I will shift my focus to building my stockpiles.
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Old 10-08-2019, 2:21 PM
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Really depends on where you are.

Some places it is an easy private escape and others. No.

what part of SoCal are you in?
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Old 10-08-2019, 2:25 PM
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Even the 'authorities' have modified their advice; used to be 'keep 3 days worth of supplies ... '. Current ads, from PG&E I think, both radio and TV, now say a week.

Per-person, that's at least 7 gallons of water, and 15,000 - 20,000 calories of food.

Kind of tough to bug out with 56 lb of water and something like 26 pounds of beef (more weight if you'd like some variety; freeze-dried is less, but then you need more water).

Last edited by Librarian; 10-08-2019 at 2:31 PM..
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Old 10-08-2019, 2:38 PM
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Old 10-08-2019, 2:42 PM
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See Charleton Heston in "Omega Man".

That is all.

Oh, wait - also "A Boy Loves His Dog".
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Old 10-09-2019, 12:43 AM
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My wife and I have a multi tear plan.

1. Bug in for long time if possible. We know our neighbors and neighborhood.

2. If we must leave we have family within a 30 minute drive East of us in Riverside.

3. If it's severe, we have family located in a mountain community that has self contained water and propane.

4. If it's major or catastrophic, we have friends and family who live out of state; some rual on farms.

If it's wortl and gangs of looters or worse are roaming, we have plans and different strategies in case. (No guarantees I know) but I was defending my friends property during the 92 riots.
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Old 10-09-2019, 9:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cincinnatus View Post
See Charleton Heston in "Omega Man".

That is all.

Oh, wait - also "A Boy Loves His Dog".
The story/movie title is "A boy and his dog"; your quote is the last line of the story. -
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On the surface, Vic and Quilla June discover that Blood is starving and near death, having been attacked by radioactive insects and other "things". Quilla June tries to get Vic to leave Blood and take off with her. Knowing he will never survive without Blood's guidance and, more importantly, knowing Blood will not survive without care and food, Vic faces a difficult situation. It is implied that he kills his new love and cooks her flesh to save Blood's life.

The novella ends with Vic remembering her question as Blood eats: "Do you know what love is?" and he concludes, "Sure I know. A boy loves his dog."
Fairly hideous movie made of it, with Don Johnson (pre Miami Vice) as Vic.

Last edited by Librarian; 10-09-2019 at 9:43 AM..
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Old 10-09-2019, 9:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paperchasin View Post
I've been spending too much time building my BOB and just finally started to think about where I'd go if I needed to bug out. I sit in traffic going to work and traffic on Fridays getting home is pretty bad. This got me thinking about whether or not it would even be possible to bug out if I needed to. Assuming you live in the city, what are your thoughts on being able to get out of the city? I guess if you decided early on to leave it might be possible?
It would depend on the event. If it were a nuclear attack or a viral pandemic, where staying put would might kill you with radiation or some deadly virus, you'd be forced to bugout and take your chances. If it were an earthquake you initially survived, you might be better to stay in place and hunker down at least for awhile.

It also depends on your individual circumstances. If you are single,(or there are only two of you) a motorcycle could get you out of town on the railroad tracks and maybe avoid the hysterical mobs. That route can be pre planned.

So there are a lot of variables to consider in advance.
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:08 AM
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For me? No way to bug out if it's an event that requires a spontaneous evacuation. If I can get a head start, then I have a great bug out location, with lots of support from others that might be able to make it there.

But I Live in San Francisco. Water on three sides, two bridges out of town are congested at the best of times, and heading down the peninsula leads to nowhere but another half million people trying to do the same thing as me....

The Golden Gate bridge is my route to my BOL, and if everyone is trying to get out of town, that would definitely be a no go. I am 4 blocks from the ocean, but I got no boat...

So, my best bet would be to bug in and hope for the best. I am fairly well provisioned for a few weeks.

In a major event, I see a lot of the transplant snowflakes who live here melting.

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Old 10-09-2019, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paperchasin View Post
I've been spending too much time building my BOB and just finally started to think about where I'd go if I needed to bug out. I sit in traffic going to work and traffic on Fridays getting home is pretty bad. This got me thinking about whether or not it would even be possible to bug out if I needed to. Assuming you live in the city, what are your thoughts on being able to get out of the city? I guess if you decided early on to leave it might be possible?
You have raised a great point of concern and it's one that the US government has been grappling with since the 1940's.

Reactively "bugging out" AFTER an incident has happened is problematic in high population density areas because everyone is trying to make use of the limited roadway bandwidth all at the same time, leading to gridlock, and nobody gets anywhere.

This realization led to the government promoting fallout shelters rather than evacuation as a plan for dealing with nuclear war. One of the problems with that approach was not everyone felt it was a priority as long as bombs weren't dropping TODAY... and consequently did little or nothing to prepare.

Bugging out to escape a disaster area only works effectively if you evacuate before it becomes necessary. The people who leave 3-4 days ahead of major storms are the ones who get out with comparative ease. Those who wait until the day before, or the day OF the storm, will face the worst holiday Friday rush hour traffic imaginable and gas stations along the way will be unable to supply fuel for them all. This isn't speculation, it's been observed from past experience.

IMHO it is a TERRIFIC idea to have a go-bag with some essentials in it for you to get by a few days while transitioning between one stable situation (which became unstable) and your new stable situation elsewhere in an unaffected area. While it's never a BAD idea to have some basic food, change of clothes, resume and personal docs on a secure flash drive... I think it's a mistake to think as some do that "living off the land" Bear Grylls style will be your new lifestyle. You need to get out, to friends or relatives outside the area, or to a hotel. If it's a situation of "there IS no unaffected area" then you're not going to beat that with a backpack full of goodies, I don't care who you are.

That go-bag is great for when the unexpected hits and you have to roll with the punches. Again, keep in mind, the emphasis should be on transition, not on "this is the new normal". Good walking hiking shoes to get you to an area where Uber, buses, trains etc are working. Some cash to get you essentials that it's impractical to carry. A credit card - we love to envision apocalyptic scenarios where all the credit systems are down - but the odds are extremely low you'd ever encounter that (hence, some cash is always good) and very high that credit systems would be down in a localized area, but working elsewhere. the go-bag gets you to that "elsewhere".

You mention traffic, and it's possible a crisis might hit while you are commuting and you find yourself stranded in a sea of gridlock while doom descends. This happened to people fleeing wildfires within the past couple of years. The smart ones realized what was happening, and bailed with just what they could carry and literally RAN for their lives. Others couldn't due to age or incapacity, and others didn't make the move until it was too late. Being able to MOVE is your greatest survival ability. Be ready to abandon that car right where it is if that moment comes. Having the go-bag will help physically AND mentally prepare for that occasion.

Hope this was helpful and raised some thoughts you may have had, but not fully fleshed out.
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
It would depend on the event. If it were a nuclear attack or a viral pandemic, where staying put would might kill you with radiation or some deadly virus, you'd be forced to bugout and take your chances. If it were an earthquake you initially survived, you might be better to stay in place and hunker down at least for awhile.

It also depends on your individual circumstances. If you are single,(or there are only two of you) a motorcycle could get you out of town on the railroad tracks and maybe avoid the hysterical mobs. That route can be pre planned.

So there are a lot of variables to consider in advance.
You think you can RUN from a viral pandemic??? Think a bit harder about that. Also if you try and avoid ALL human contact so as to avoid the pathogen, then you are again out in the middle of nowhere with NO resources (and everyone else out there doing the same thing).

Nuclear attack, well, that's a whole different thing and REALLY REALLY unlikely. And since the entire western seaboard IS a potential target, if we get hit you won't have to worry about running.
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:24 AM
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Hunker down dude, hunker down.

Stay home and guard your supplies.

Unless you have a real secured position to head to, where is there to go? Some camp in a field with thousands of desparate people, mired in human filth and drinking from polluted water sources? In a real catastrophe, marching around with that fat BOB might get it taken from you or shot in the back of the head.wh

I would recommend at least 2 weeks supplies. In the event of something major, it takes FEMA 2 weeks to mount a response that will reach everyone.
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAL.BAR View Post
You think you can RUN from a viral pandemic??? Think a bit harder about that. Also if you try and avoid ALL human contact so as to avoid the pathogen, then you are again out in the middle of nowhere with NO resources (and everyone else out there doing the same thing).

Nuclear attack, well, that's a whole different thing and REALLY REALLY unlikely. And since the entire western seaboard IS a potential target, if we get hit you won't have to worry about running.
You're right. Just give up. That's what you'd do. Don't bother to think in advance or make any plans because it's hopeless (or REALLY unlikely).
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:29 AM
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When little old Ramona got evacuated (in ‘03 I think) people literally sat on highway 78 all night. No traffic moving. A lot just went home.
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Old 10-09-2019, 10:30 AM
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I've considered this before. It depends on the circumstances.

Most likely, I'd hunker down at my place in the middle of the city. I keep about a month's supply of rations for me, with some left over for my elderly neighbor.

If I was forced to evacuate and driving is not an option, I live about 200 yards from the American River, which dumps into the Sacramento River, which dumps into the bay. I'd carry my kayak and supplies and I could make it out that way. Not sure where I'd go from there, but I could get somewhere, at least. I don't mind drinking river water, and I'm pretty sure I could catch enough fish to sustain me year round. If I had to go upstream, I'd probably just hike.
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Old 10-09-2019, 6:56 PM
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The logical conclusion is to bug out now while you can! That's what we did - country living for us in our hideaway in the woods.
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Old 10-09-2019, 7:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'ol shooter View Post
Staying right where I'm at, in Suburbia. I have shelter, food, water, and guns. Tent goes up in the yard next to my captive (spa) water supply. Having been in the Fire service, I am familiar with the disaster management plans and capabilities of my city and surrounding county. Going to a strange locale would be foolish.
This. Living in the suburbs along side a few like minded neighbors could be ideal honestly. I know a few neighborhoods in town that if you blocked off just two streets with a few cars and manned them with a few armed individuals, you could block off a large area. It makes it hard to get out in an emergency, but makes it hard to get in as well and easier to protect.
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Old 10-09-2019, 7:37 PM
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hunkering down, bugging out as last resort
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Old 10-09-2019, 8:10 PM
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If only there was some kind of machine that could fly.
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Old 10-12-2019, 12:02 AM
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Yeah without foreknowledge bugging out is problematic. I'm more concerned about getting home. 25+ miles. Thinking of the most likely disaster like an earthquake it makes sense for me to "bug in" at work for 3+ days but that's a long wait.
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Old 10-12-2019, 2:21 PM
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I think it really depends on how things unfold. Good to have plans but always be flexible and ready to adjust. The window to get out is probably going to be really early or pretty late. Either way, I'd suggest being familiar with your surroundings. Map access is nice but you won't always have it and it won't have all of the details.
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Old 10-12-2019, 3:00 PM
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Quote:
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The logical conclusion is to bug out now while you can! That's what we did - country living for us in our hideaway in the woods.
Amen brother. We did the same thing after thinking long and hard about what had become of our once joyful urban life. The rural country life called to us and we decided to make a go of it so out of the city we went and into the country we settled.

Now, self reliance is a lifestyle lived joyfully, not a contingency plan for the inevitable.
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Old 10-12-2019, 9:00 PM
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Access to water is going to be the main issue for most, so bugging out is going to have its limitations.

I have several alternate bug-in sites within a few miles of me, and I can get my gear and supplies loaded up in about 20 minutes. I have one Rubbermaid tub loaded with tools and supplies needed get into and then secure them.
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Old 10-13-2019, 3:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofugly13 View Post
For me? No way to bug out if it's an event that requires a spontaneous evacuation. If I can get a head start, then I have a great bug out location, with lots of support from others that might be able to make it there.

But I Live in San Francisco. Water on three sides, two bridges out of town are congested at the best of times, and heading down the peninsula leads to nowhere but another half million people trying to do the same thing as me....

The Golden Gate bridge is my route to my BOL, and if everyone is trying to get out of town, that would definitely be a no go. I am 4 blocks from the ocean, but I got no boat...

So, my best bet would be to bug in and hope for the best. I am fairly well provisioned for a few weeks.

In a major event, I see a lot of the transplant snowflakes who live here melting.

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Old 10-13-2019, 3:11 AM
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Learn to fly and go steal a helicopter or fixed wing. (WHERE TO THOUGH)
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Old 10-13-2019, 5:29 AM
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Originally Posted by zatoh View Post
Yeah without foreknowledge bugging out is problematic. I'm more concerned about getting home. 25+ miles. Thinking of the most likely disaster like an earthquake it makes sense for me to "bug in" at work for 3+ days but that's a long wait.
I thought about this too. I carry with me enough supplies to get me by 1 day if I'm stuck at work or stuck in my car. Can't imagine carrying more than that with me everyday to and from work. I don't like leaving too many things in my car due to potential crime.
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Old 10-13-2019, 7:01 AM
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Bugging out is definitely worst case scenario. I have a buddy with a place in the hills that tells me I'd be welcome to stay with him, but realistically, getting there would likely prove difficult. I've got supplies at home to last us a month or more. Generator, gasoline and propane. As long as the house is standing I think we'd be fairly comfortable, if not, We've got a complete kit of camping equipment. I keep a get home bag in my vehicle, change of clothes, rain gear, work gloves and dust mask, some food, fire making supplies, space blanket, etc. and $20.00 cash.

Last edited by kayaker; 10-13-2019 at 8:53 PM..
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Old 10-13-2019, 10:13 AM
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Physical Condition - if you cannot walk 15 miles with a 75lb pack, better to just stay put and hope for the best.
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Old 10-13-2019, 1:11 PM
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I think OP you need a bug-out vs bug-in plan based on the event and how long you Will be on your own. At least this is how I’ve tried to think about it.

In my car I have BOB to get me home. No firearms, but food, water, knives, boots, etc I work 20 miles from home. Regardless of scenario I’m going to try to get back to my house and decide from there.

My thinking looks like this.
Power failure - stay put
Earthquake - stay put
Society breakdown - stay put

Bug-out
Radiation
Fire
Viral
Etc
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Old 10-13-2019, 1:47 PM
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Originally Posted by calif 15-22 View Post
I think OP you need a bug-out vs bug-in plan based on the event and how long you Will be on your own. At least this is how I’ve tried to think about it.

In my car I have BOB to get me home. No firearms, but food, water, knives, boots, etc I work 20 miles from home. Regardless of scenario I’m going to try to get back to my house and decide from there.

My thinking looks like this.
Power failure - stay put
Earthquake - stay put
Society breakdown - stay put

Bug-out
Radiation
Fire
Viral
Etc

My thoughts and plans exactly tbh. My BOB is geared just as much to be a GHB as well, or a car breakdown bag. It’s also why I keep 3 gallons of water in my car at all times. I also keep in a bin extra items for vehicle bug out or emergencies, if I’m unable to get home first.

Things like:
Extra first aid
P100 Respirator with extra filters
Sleeping bag
TP (you never know)
Emergency blankets
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Last edited by skilletboy; 10-13-2019 at 1:52 PM..
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Old 10-13-2019, 7:23 PM
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Being in California we're kind of screwed, when the fire's coming you got to go, but if it's something else you pretty much have to stay, screwed on both accounts!

I evacuated plenty of times already that I don't even think about it. Like a robot I back up the basics and go, no emotions or drama, just go!

It also affected my thoughts on bugging in. I have never needed to "bug-in", yet have evacuated many times. I no longer value stockpiles of anything.

I keep water and food for approximately 1 week, and my wife has a ton of those stupid scented candles that girls give as gifts. I'll probably die from poisonous scented candle fumes!

I do have an adventure motorcycle, but having a family it doesn't serve for bugging out. It would however, be good for supply runs. 75 mpg, large panniers, off road, on road, capable!

Last edited by smittty; 10-13-2019 at 7:27 PM..
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