Is the Kel-Tec sub2000 really this useless

[mac_rc]

So I was at the gun store today to look at the Ruger PC and they had a featureless sub2000 right next to it. I asked to hold it and I was pretty blown away with how unnatural it felt. I have held featureless AR's before and they felt okay, but with the Kel-Tek it felt like I couldn't even use the basic safety switch without awkwardly reaching over the top with my second hand.

So my question is what is the best grip wrap for these guns? Maybe the one I tried was an extra shallow one. Is there any kind of thumb knob that can be added for extra support? Is there some custom grip wrap that I could make that is still legal?

And is there any way to lose the grips altogether through registering the gun differently or modifying the mag release? I really want to buy it, but it's just not worth it in its current state.

Those who own one, do you get used to it after a while? Does it get better as you shoot it more?

Any suggestions would be great. Thanks

[smittty]

The sub2000 is great for what is was designed for, but not for our laws so you're right about it's california configuration being nearly useless.

If the Ruger PC was lighter weight it would be great but it's too heavy imo.

For 9mm look at AR-9's. There's lots of options today and prices are good. Try Bear Creek Arsenal.

[L.A. Saiga]

some of those keltec guns are cool as heck n it's a darn shame they have to schmuck them up to meet CA law. totally ruins them
Smittty's right, its really pointless to buy one here

[Donkeypunch0420]

I'm a fan of Kel Tec, I've owned 3 Subs over the years. The Ruger PCC and California gun laws made the Sub 2000 and Sub2k obsolete overnight. In another state I still see it as a viable pistol caliber carbine.

[elSquid]

I'd just get the Ruger.

I don't really see any advantage to the Keltec.

-- Michael

[E Michael]

I place my thumb behind the ejection port, has a nice little shelf on it. Mine is a gen 1, not sure if the gen 2 is the same. Very accurate gun, very fun. I would however trade it for a take down Ruger PCC.

[E Michael]

Also to add the gen 1 has to have this stupid extension thing on the buttstock to make it 30 inches

[crocodileman]

Hey folks, has anyone designed an alternative pistol grip replacement for the sub2000, to make it more usable yet still featureless? Anything out there like a resurgent arms grip?

[walterSOBCHAK]

I was seriously considering getting a Kel Tec RDB, with the featureless grip, until I started researching and found that pretty much everything Kel Tec makes is a turd. I couldn’t find one model that didn’t have an abundance of complaints. I’ve known for years they make shoddy pistols, but I really liked the size of the RDB. 26” OAL.

[Ki6vsm]

Originally Posted by walterSOBCHAK

I was seriously considering getting a Kel Tec RDB, with the featureless grip, until I started researching and found that pretty much everything Kel Tec makes is a turd. I couldn’t find one model that didn’t have an abundance of complaints. I’ve known for years they make shoddy pistols, but I really liked the size of the RDB. 26” OAL.

I don't know about that. A friend of mine owns one. He was shooting it prone while we were out in the desert. He was trying to use some kind of roll-up bag as a makeshift rear "sandbag"; ended up kind blocking the ejector port. He didn't realize it but the brass had nowhere to go, so it backed up and got the mechanism all JACKED UP. Took it to a shop in San Diego with "Gunsmithing service". It's been sitting in their shop for six months now.

My point is, bullpups can be funky. It also has a horrible, heavy trigger and there is no easy improvement for that.

[saki302]

Kel tec bullpups have some of the best trigger pulls because of their sear design.

Most people who badmouth them dont own them..

That said, some of their cheaper designs do need some elbow grease to get running nicely on occasion.

With the several RDB bullpups in our group, there was one failure- the rivet holding the hammer strike plate failed on one. Keltec promptly replaced the hammer unit.

Their customer service is A+.

I also find it funny the Ruger LCP is a clear P3AT copy.

[Ki6vsm]

Originally Posted by saki302

Kel tec bullpups have some of the best trigger pulls because of their sear design.

Most people who badmouth them dont own them..

That said, some of their cheaper designs do need some elbow grease to get running nicely on occasion.

With the several RDB bullpups in our group, there was one failure- the rivet holding the hammer strike plate failed on one. Keltec promptly replaced the hammer unit.

Their customer service is A+.

I think it's not so much about owning one in order to qualify, as simply just having the experience of using one. I don't know why anyone would say anything about them w/o first trying one out.

In my case I knew nothing at all about the RDB. My friend brought his out to the desert last Thanksgiving weekend. He let me fire 5 or 10 rounds through it. Compared to my rifles I found the trigger to be heavy with a lot of creep. When I was done I was glad to get back to my AR and its SSA trigger.

As far as service, my friend should have had his sent back to the factory instead of leaving it to some local shop that "does a lot of Law Enforcement jobs" as he put it. Sounds like his rifle is always being pushed back to the bottom of the stack.

In my opinion, he should have stripped the rifle down himself first at least, to see what might be wrong. And cleaned it. As I recall, after he got all the jacked-up spend cases out of it, it would not eject new cases properly. Kept jamming.

[saki302]

I'd guess theres a piece of brass stuck up in the action somewhere.

While nowhere as good as a basic upgraded AR trigger, the two I fired had outstanding (for a bullpup) triggers. I have an FN ps90 and the rdb triggers were much better. About like a factory vanilla AR.

If your friends trigger is gritty, it's probably very dirty or he got a bad one.

Send it back to KT. They'll take care of him.

-Dave

[eigenstate]

Originally Posted by sfarchitect

As stated above just get the Ruger. Because California gun laws have been a moving target for manufacturers, they've not even bothered designing for it. The results for the end user are, as you observed, 'sub-optimal'. The BB on the Tavor and other bullpups were the same sort of total clusterf***.

Also as stated above Kel-Tec products are not. . .'um. . . pinnacles of engineering and/or design. Buy the Ruger.

I got a su16 from a calgunner about a year or two ago. I really like shooting it and it handles great for a featureless rifle. And thanks to freedom week, I can now store a regular mag in the stock and keep it folded up. It is a great design and I've not had a malfunction so far.

On the other hand, it doesn't exactly feel "robust", being made mostly out of plastic. I wish the receivers were made from Al. It would be worth the extra weight. If it wasn't for the seeming fragility, it would be my favorite rifle. I'd buy one in a pistol caliber if they made one, but the sub2000 doesn't really work for the PRK.

[Ki6vsm]

Originally Posted by saki302

I'd guess theres a piece of brass stuck up in the action somewhere.

While nowhere as good as a basic upgraded AR trigger, the two I fired had outstanding (for a bullpup) triggers. I have an FN ps90 and the rdb triggers were much better. About like a factory vanilla AR.

If your friends trigger is gritty, it's probably very dirty or he got a bad one.

Send it back to KT. They'll take care of him.

-Dave

Yeah I hope he goes to that shop soon and gets his rifle back. Then he should look into the issue himself or send it to KT.

I'll take your word that it's better than others. I guess the assortment of aftermarket triggers for ARs can spoil a person. I suppose though that if I had one and TSHTF, I would not care about the trigger. It'd work just fine.

[Gregchico]

I realize this is a thread sidetrack but...

If the trigger is heavy, there is most likely a spring in the trigger system that is not set into position correctly. If he looks to were the springs are, just make sure they are in the correct spots.
The RDB's trigger is a very good one (except very loud when dry firing). If you are feeling a heavy pull, there is something wrong.
I have an RDB, and after the first 150 some of my screws started backing out and I started having light strikes (and a few other issues). I took them all out of the stock and loctited them. I took the rifle out after freedom week and put 400+ rounds through it with no issues.

[blackrat]

I made my own wrap for my sub2k. Not really sure what the gun shop offered but I make do ok with my home made wrap. Like mentioned earlier i can place my thumb on the ejection port ridge. The actual problem I have with the platform is that it's hard to get behind the sights with ear muffs on and my beard gets stuck in the stock. Been meaning to throw some parts on it to fix those issues.