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  #1  
Old 09-14-2021, 1:42 PM
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Default Moving into B Class. But not right now! *LOL*

December last year I started a thread about my progression as a shooter

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1673077


As I listed the Excuses that limit my growth, in spite of my diligence in dry practicing -
  • I do NOT reload.
  • I can (or allowed) to shoot only once per month. It is actually significantly less during this pandemic.
  • No feasible access to a range that allows for live fire drills. Or at the least, standards like the Bill Drill, FAST, etc.

It has become painfully obvious that the inability to immediately validate my dry practice has stymied my growth to the next level. Notwithstanding the ammo shortage/high prices brought by this pandemic.

Yeah, it actually came to the point that I already have accepted that I will be a "CCFL" - "C Class for Life"... *LOL*



Unfortunately or fortunately - I got my first "A Class" score in the 18-03 "We Play Games" with HF: 5.7609 (77.07%). Although the USPSA processing is still to happen - I calculated that since this is within the 20% allowed upper limit, this would bump me to a "B!" *EGAD* ... and this with a Glock 34 Gen 3 with the only modifications being Dawson Precision fiber optic sights and Springer Precision grip tape. Ammo was factory CCI Blazer Brass 115GR.






Oh well... I guess I am looking forward to the next SEVERAL years as a "BCLF!"



Now, the WHY of it being an unfortunate turn of events... After winning C class in last July's trophy match, I was really looking forward to another trophy match next month. However, since my field course skills are still not up to par - I would be in the bottom seed. *HAHAHAHA*

#luckyDay or #unLuckyDay


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  #2  
Old 09-14-2021, 8:13 PM
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Welcome to B class!
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  #3  
Old 09-15-2021, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SG29736 View Post
Welcome to B class!
Thank you! Yehey! I am now an “intermediate” shooter (as per @IVC - B and above)…

Yeah - considering how long/difficult getting into B - *ugh* how about getting out of B!?! Instead of 1~2 second gains - we are now looking at less than a second with better accuracy.

I would be contented just getting to “A.” As I am Lifetime member, I have all the time in the world.


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Old 09-15-2021, 10:21 AM
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We “CCFL” will miss you.
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  #5  
Old 09-15-2021, 4:43 PM
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We “CCFL” will miss you.


Don’t worry. I will still be with you guys in deed - my field course HFs are still C.





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  #6  
Old 09-16-2021, 7:52 AM
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BCFL is the place. I have been living there for a while. At some point you just want out and start to hero or zero the classifier stages. Then after doing that for a bit, you realize that the classification is just a thing. It's more about what percentage you are shooting of the winner during matches. It does not matter if you are a B class shooter and shooting less than 60% of the winner. I have given up trying to chase the next level and gone back to just trying to shoot well and get better.

BTW, it is far cooler to get a match bump for shooting well. There are a few current GM's that were classified as A's when they won a major. If I remember correctly that is what happened to Christian Sailer. He was an A when he won an area match.
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Old 09-16-2021, 8:20 AM
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I know that match bumps are very common at the bigger IDPA matches. A lot of shooters moved up via match bumps.

But I haven't heard much about it occuring in USPSA. Does it just happen at nationals as in the above example?
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  #8  
Old 09-16-2021, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
Oh well... I guess I am looking forward to the next SEVERAL years as a "BCLF!"
Oh I don't know about that. I just fell under "B" myself by 1.2 seconds last match, and I had jumped 20+ seconds from my previous match.

The difference being practice and dry fire, and just a general overall mindset towards the competitive experience in general.

Old men past their prime can still rise to the top of this sport. Practice is where it's at.

"A" is very reachable, and the difference between "A" and "M/GM" is a good day where everything just falls in place across the board at every stage.
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  #9  
Old 09-16-2021, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SG29736 View Post
I know that match bumps are very common at the bigger IDPA matches. A lot of shooters moved up via match bumps.

But I haven't heard much about it occuring in USPSA. Does it just happen at nationals as in the above example?
I know of a friend that was C going into PCC the beginning to the year. He participated in the two big matches here in state. He was bumped twice for winning his division/class and is now an A.

… As for IDPA - yeah, I did NOT renew my membership.
Now that I am a “B” - I need to try and focus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post
BCFL is the place. I have been living there for a while. At some point you just want out and start to hero or zero the classifier stages. Then after doing that for a bit, you realize that the classification is just a thing. It's more about what percentage you are shooting of the winner during matches. It does not matter if you are a B class shooter and shooting less than 60% of the winner. I have given up trying to chase the next level and gone back to just trying to shoot well and get better.
Exactly! And that is why I qualified my OP with “But not right now!” and “Unfortunately…!” - my field course skill are still way below par. HF are still at a mid- to a high-C. I did not want to rank up, well, at least after the trophy match next month. *ugh*

In summary - this is an unintended accident.


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  #10  
Old 09-16-2021, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by SG29736 View Post
I know that match bumps are very common at the bigger IDPA matches. A lot of shooters moved up via match bumps.

But I haven't heard much about it occuring in USPSA. Does it just happen at nationals as in the above example?
Level 2 matches and up: If there are 3 GM in your division that scored 90% or higher, then your match score is considered as a classifier.

Congrats OP for getting B, BCLF! hehehe
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  #11  
Old 09-16-2021, 12:33 PM
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Level 2 matches and up: If there are 3 GM in your division that scored 90% or higher, then your match score is considered as a classifier.

Congrats OP for getting B, BCLF! hehehe
So then as stated your match score percentage would be considered a classifier. And that could move up your classification. But if you are a low B and shoot a level 2 with 3 GMs who shoot 90% and your match %is 81 that alone wouldn't move you to A.
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  #12  
Old 09-16-2021, 12:36 PM
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I never got out of D class. I usually shot C scores so I didn't care.

My sights were way off when I shot my classifiers, by like 2 feet. I had to aim at 10 o'clock 2 feet off target to get hits. The hostage stages were challenging.
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2021, 12:48 PM
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So then as stated your match score percentage would be considered a classifier. And that could move up your classification. But if you are a low B and shoot a level 2 with 3 GMs who shoot 90% and your match %is 81 that alone wouldn't move you to A.
That's true. But I think if you are a B and go to nationals or an area match and win, then I think you are going move up at least to an A regardless. You may move all the way. I am not sure about how all actual process would work. I only know what I heard Sailer say on a recent podcast. I think it was Steve Anderson's where he said they bumped him to GM after the area win.
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  #14  
Old 09-17-2021, 6:57 AM
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I never got out of D class. I usually shot C scores so I didn't care.
Yay! A year or so back - was really feeling bad/depressed that I was stuck at C while my friends, in particular those who just started recently, are now in B and A…

But then realized that it is all about the field course. There are advantages being stuck… After I was content with just being a C - bang! A class score in a Classifier - rank up to B! How funny life works…


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy47 View Post
Oh I don't know about that. I just fell under "B" myself by 1.2 seconds last match, and I had jumped 20+ seconds from my previous match.

The difference being practice and dry fire, and just a general overall mindset towards the competitive experience in general.

Old men past their prime can still rise to the top of this sport. Practice is where it's at.
Hope so… I would be happy just getting an A.

Yes, you are right - “practice is where it’s at.” I lack the opportunities for live fire practice - for me, it’s dry practice straight to a match. There needs to be a consistent and regular feedback loop from dry practice and live fire practice.


Quote:
Originally Posted by balmo View Post
Congrats OP for getting B, BCLF! hehehe
Thanks!

I guess I should move to Carry Optics. I am still a C at 56%. No Classifiers for a LOONG time.



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Old 09-17-2021, 9:04 PM
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Yay! A year or so back - was really feeling bad/depressed that I was stuck at C while my friends, in particular those who just started recently, are now in B and A…

But then realized that it is all about the field course. There are advantages being stuck… After I was content with just being a C - bang! A class score in a Classifier - rank up to B! How funny life works…
Unless you are able to practice action type shooting (impossible in the Bay area) you're stuck with just matches to get shooting time. You need shooting time to improve. I don't think I ever got more than 3 matches in any given 6 month period of time.

I would never have thought those would be the good times, shooting-wise. But where I am now, there is NO IPSC-type shooting. Only some very piss-poor IDPA type shooting. There is some IPSC-type about 80 miles away, but still nowhere to practice.
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  #16  
Old 09-18-2021, 7:05 AM
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The “B” in B-Class stands for “blood” as in the “blood in and blood out” class. You gotta put in work to grow now.

The pandemic has taught me that getting an airsoft gun close ‘enough’ to my comp gun was a great way to practice at home in the garage. Definitely helps with movement if you can’t get real steel practice in.
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Old 09-20-2021, 1:03 PM
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Originally Posted by RugerNo1 View Post
The “B” in B-Class stands for “blood” as in the “blood in and blood out” class. You gotta put in work to grow now.

The pandemic has taught me that getting an airsoft gun close ‘enough’ to my comp gun was a great way to practice at home in the garage. Definitely helps with movement if you can’t get real steel practice in.
^^ Truth

I went up fairly quickly to 74.7% with shooting 4-5 matches a month but then in the past year got new equipment, a new gun and was shooting fewer matches, I dropped down to 64.3%. Slowly working my way back. Up to 67.4% now and hopefully make A sooner or later.

B-class seems to be the hardest for people to get out of
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Old 09-21-2021, 9:07 AM
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^^ Truth

I went up fairly quickly to 74.7% with shooting 4-5 matches a month but then in the past year got new equipment, a new gun and was shooting fewer matches, I dropped down to 64.3%. Slowly working my way back. Up to 67.4% now and hopefully make A sooner or later.

B-class seems to be the hardest for people to get out of
Thus the BCFL. However, everyone I know that made the jump to A (and continued to practice) quickly moved to M. That is the next big sticking place.
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Old 09-21-2021, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Unless you are able to practice action type shooting (impossible in the Bay area) you're stuck with just matches to get shooting time. You need shooting time to improve. I don't think I ever got more than 3 matches in any given 6 month period of time.
I already have accepted that reality and just working around it. It is what it is, unless, I move somewhere else. Within SoCal or outside the state.

Quote:
I would never have thought those would be the good times, shooting-wise. But where I am now, there is NO IPSC-type shooting. Only some very piss-poor IDPA type shooting. There is some IPSC-type about 80 miles away, but still nowhere to practice.
Speaking about IDPA - I just did NOT renew my membership. Even if they are the same practical shooting sports, etc. and it is all about getting accurate hits on target - the finer nuances have made me decide to focus on USPSA for now... At least in the short-term.



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Originally Posted by RugerNo1 View Post
The “B” in B-Class stands for “blood” as in the “blood in and blood out” class. You gotta put in work to grow now.
I will NOT disagree with you!

Quote:
The pandemic has taught me that getting an airsoft gun close ‘enough’ to my comp gun was a great way to practice at home in the garage. Definitely helps with movement if you can’t get real steel practice in.
I actually have the same - Umarex Glock 34 + targets from TacTrainers... However, I had to put it aside to work on something I feel is my low hanging fruit - calling the shots. The lack of recoil / the cycle of an airsoft gun is giving me a false sense of confidence in that skill.




Quote:
Originally Posted by broadside View Post
^^ Truth

I went up fairly quickly to 74.7% with shooting 4-5 matches a month but then in the past year got new equipment, a new gun and was shooting fewer matches, I dropped down to 64.3%. Slowly working my way back. Up to 67.4% now and hopefully make A sooner or later.
I was out for several months when I came back it was about a match every 3-weeks as was prepping for the Travelers' Cup. Every match was not perfect, but the number of stages that I have pushed my HFs higher have increased.

Am just worried once the reality of "normal life" starts seeping back in (a post-COVID world?) - it may come back to a match every month or two.



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B-class seems to be the hardest for people to get out of
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthBay Shooter View Post
Thus the BCFL. However, everyone I know that made the jump to A (and continued to practice) quickly moved to M. That is the next big sticking place.
I guess I will be happy if I just get to A.

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Last edited by rodralig; 09-22-2021 at 10:27 AM..
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Old 09-21-2021, 4:43 PM
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Speaking about IDPA - I just did NOT renew my membership. Even if they are the same practical shooting sports, etc. and it is all about getting accurate hits on target - the finer nuances have made me decide to focus on USPSA for now... At least in the short-term.
The local IDPA is not normal IDPA. The guy running the action part of the club thinks he's another Hitler or Biden. He's been in charge for over 10 years and won't listen to any suggestions. One example - you can only start with 10 rounds in the gun. This state has NEVER had a capacity limit. He appoints himself match director in every match. The matches suck.
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Old 09-21-2021, 11:26 PM
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The local IDPA is not normal IDPA. The guy running the action part of the club thinks he's another Hitler or Biden. He's been in charge for over 10 years and won't listen to any suggestions. One example - you can only start with 10 rounds in the gun. This state has NEVER had a capacity limit. He appoints himself match director in every match. The matches suck.
IDPA national rules only allow 10 in the mag plus 1 in the chamber and some divisions require less then 10 in the mag. Unless the match director you mentioned is only allowing 10 total not 10 plus 1. You can use standard capacity mags but at the start signal there can only be 10 rounds in the mag. CDP major only allows 8 plus 1. It's the same even in free states with standard capacity mags.
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Old 09-22-2021, 10:12 AM
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The Classifier update process run last night - it is official...

I was hoping that the club would have uploaded them late after the trophy match.

That said - can one really say #sandbagger if I chose to remain with "C" in spite of having a "B" since I very well know myself that my field runs are C hit factors...



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Old 09-22-2021, 2:01 PM
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IDPA national rules only allow 10 in the mag plus 1 in the chamber and some divisions require less then 10 in the mag. Unless the match director you mentioned is only allowing 10 total not 10 plus 1. You can use standard capacity mags but at the start signal there can only be 10 rounds in the mag. CDP major only allows 8 plus 1. It's the same even in free states with standard capacity mags.
Bah, IDPA is a stupider outfit than I thought.
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Old 09-22-2021, 2:03 PM
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The Classifier update process run last night - it is official...

I was hoping that the club would have uploaded them late after the trophy match.

That said - can one really say #sandbagger if I chose to remain with "C" in spite of having a "B" since I very well know myself that my field runs are C hit factors...



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You can be a life member?
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Old 09-22-2021, 3:05 PM
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Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
The Classifier update process run last night - it is official...

I was hoping that the club would have uploaded them late after the trophy match.

That said - can one really say #sandbagger if I chose to remain with "C" in spite of having a "B" since I very well know myself that my field runs are C hit factors...



_
Congrats!

I think you can get to A Class. I made it with the "mAtChEs = PrAcTiCe" shortcoming. I was shooting 3 matches per month with a consistent dryfire schedule--even though I would call it rather scatterbrained/un-guided/un-timed dryfire.

Getting out of A-Class? Well, I can't help you there as I've been stuck for like 3 years now.
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Old 09-22-2021, 3:10 PM
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You can be a life member?
Yup… $500 - I started in 2017 - assuming I do USPSA until I am a Senior/Super Senior, it would be a good rate (I am already 5 years out).

IDPA only has 1-year ($40) and 3-year ($105) memberships…

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Old 09-22-2021, 5:36 PM
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Congrats!
Thank you Sir…

Quote:
I think you can get to A Class. I made it with the "mAtChEs = PrAcTiCe" shortcoming. I was shooting 3 matches per month with a consistent dryfire schedule--even though I would call it rather scatterbrained/un-guided/un-timed dryfire.
Whoa!?! But that gives me hope…

Now - really need to get that reloading rig setup. Or, have ammo prices go down to pre-2020 levels.

Quote:
Getting out of A-Class? Well, I can't help you there as I've been stuck for like 3 years now.


Well… Then I need to check back with you once you get out of A.

Personally, I would just be happy getting to an A.


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Old 09-23-2021, 9:09 AM
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Thank you Sir…

Whoa!?! But that gives me hope…

Now - really need to get that reloading rig setup. Or, have ammo prices go down to pre-2020 levels.

_
You do need to get a press, but it is going to be hard to get components. Bullets are pretty easy to get, but primers and powder are a little harder to find at reasonable prices. However, at some point the availability will come back, but not at the price it was pre-covid and pre election. In the long run it will be cost effective, if you can shoot a lot. It seems that the price difference per round it not as good as before, but you can shoot way more. And you can customize a load to your gun and your style.
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Old 09-23-2021, 10:43 AM
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I started USPSA two months ago and have done 3 qualifiers and botched all 3. So when I get my initial qualification, it's going to be a nice fat "D" class but as a newbie, I'm going to matches to have fund and get better so I'm not that worried about my classification. That said, I will try to get myself up to "B" over time.
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Old 09-23-2021, 7:58 PM
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You do need to get a press, but it is going to be hard to get components. Bullets are pretty easy to get, but primers and powder are a little harder to find at reasonable prices.
I already have the primers, bullets and brass. I need powder and a rig.

Still ramping up $$$ and planning out how I’d be arranging the house for the setup.

Quote:
And you can customize a load to your gun and your style.
Yeah - got to try out another “recipe” from a friend. Dang! Reloaded bullets are so much a delight to shoot…

Although it would be nice to get to the higher classes in the sport using near-stock configurations.


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Old 09-25-2021, 9:17 AM
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Bah, IDPA is a stupider outfit than I thought.
A few peeves I have with IDPA -
  • Restrictions on the reloads. Standards are "Emergency Reloads." Outside of that is the Tactical Reload - the spent magazine needs to be retained or receive a 3-sec penalty. Personally my rule of gunfight (if ever) - "Reload when you want to; not when you need to." ... an interesting article from Police1: https://www.police1.com/archive/arti...hVpoYllhF64QT/
  • The 1-second penalty on hits outside the 0-down zone (from 0.5-sec previously). The late Ron Avery of the Tactical Performance Center wrote about this - "we have match imposed limits on how the gun can be carried, how you will reload the firearm and other artificial restraints that limit the creative imagination of the shooter to “solve” the problem presented. The scoring of the targets imposes a dramatic time penalty for anything falling outside an arbitrary 8” circle and the shooting slows down to an unrealistic speed that is not reflected in the speed of actual engagements or force on force training scenarios" ... In one of his classes, even Bob Vogel expressed displeasure with the "1-down" change.
  • Progress/evolution. While USPSA allows for WML, IDPA is a "No," unless your are LE/MIL and participate with duty gear. Surprisingly - IDPA allows a magwell in Carry Optics while USPSA does not. And what the hell is the ESP division for?!? The current organization, er, the Wilson-owned enterprise, try to go "defensive," but if you boil it down to where it is right now - it is but a sport.

Oh well... Above my pay grade, er, skill level (I am classified as EX; I missed MA by 0.7 in the last 5x5)...

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  #32  
Old 09-25-2021, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rodralig View Post
A few peeves I have with IDPA -
  • Restrictions on the reloads. Standards are "Emergency Reloads." Outside of that is the Tactical Reload - the spent magazine needs to be retained or receive a 3-sec penalty. Personally my rule of gunfight (if ever) - "Reload when you want to; not when you need to." ... an interesting article from Police1: https://www.police1.com/archive/arti...hVpoYllhF64QT/
  • The 1-second penalty on hits outside the 0-down zone (from 0.5-sec previously). The late Ron Avery of the Tactical Performance Center wrote about this - "we have match imposed limits on how the gun can be carried, how you will reload the firearm and other artificial restraints that limit the creative imagination of the shooter to “solve” the problem presented. The scoring of the targets imposes a dramatic time penalty for anything falling outside an arbitrary 8” circle and the shooting slows down to an unrealistic speed that is not reflected in the speed of actual engagements or force on force training scenarios" ... In one of his classes, even Bob Vogel expressed displeasure with the "1-down" change.
  • Progress/evolution. While USPSA allows for WML, IDPA is a "No," unless your are LE/MIL and participate with duty gear. Surprisingly - IDPA allows a magwell in Carry Optics while USPSA does not. And what the hell is the ESP division for?!? The current organization, er, the Wilson-owned enterprise, try to go "defensive," but if you boil it down to where it is right now - it is but a sport.

Oh well... Above my pay grade, er, skill level (I am classified as EX; I missed MA by 0.7 in the last 5x5)...

_
They say most IDPA classified "Experts" shoot "B" class in USPSA...I wouldn't disagree.
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  #33  
Old 09-25-2021, 6:17 PM
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They say most IDPA classified "Experts" shoot "B" class in USPSA...I wouldn't disagree.
There is a difference… I originally got mine in an ‘easy’ “stand & deliver” before IDPA HQ re-adjusted the brackets because shooters were getting classified higher than their actual skill?

This run after the re-bracket would have been an “SS” -





You got yours with a “match bump”#respect




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Old 09-27-2021, 7:00 PM
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Just saw this thread...

Congrats, but cut out that @#$ about staying in B or worrying about moving up. Let me give you a perspective. Your classifier that you shot at 77% is only 8% below M. It's a 120-point classifier, so your time was 20.83. For M, you needed 18.88, which is only 2 seconds.

Now look at your draws - you easily lose close to a second on *each* one. And I'm not talking about losing a second where you spend too much time aiming, I'm talking about slow hand movement. A "free" wasted time that has nothing to do with shooting, just with physically slow movement. Move hands faster, shoot at the same speed and you have an 85% score.

Look at the reloads too. You have about two steps, but you're not done as you move and your gun is not ready. Without shooting faster or differently, you can shave off a half a second on each reload too. That's a lot of time that is not connected to the shooting, just mechanical reloading technique.

As long as you can do well with the weak hand consistently on that classifier, you can already get a better score that would put you at M. Just food for thought.

The problem with classifiers is that they get "shot-out," where hero-or-zero approach creates unrealistically high HFs. The whole USPSA classification system is one of my pet peeves, where courses of fire are always different (good), but classifiers are allowed to become stale (bad) which causes HFs to get bumped up. So, most people move up on classifiers that are newer, or in divisions that are newer. Nothing wrong with that, that's what the skill level should be.

In fact, as classifiers are adopted from the Nationals, you can go back and see what HF were shot by GMs when the classifier was a short course that counted for the overall match performance. Most of them are in the high-B to high-A range, not the HFs that were later bumped by practicing them. If you can shoot unseen classifiers in the A range, that's close to the the real-life performance of the top shooters. What matters is what you can shoot consistently when you haven't seen it before. That's another food for thought.
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