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National 2nd Amend. Political & Legal Discussion Discuss national gun rights and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel. |
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#41
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Where does that lead us in practical terms? Is it your position that the Second Amendment means you can "bear" any weapon, anyplace, any time, with no "exceptions?" Say for example that you wanted to bear an M249 and a couple of drums of ammo while attending an AOC town hall. Is that your right? How about in a federal courthouse while the Ninth Circuit is considering a gun rights case? If so, as I asserted above, that is not a mainstream view. Even Scalia made it clear that was not what Heller meant. There is no judicial or legislative precedent for the position that the Second Amendment means "no exceptions" and there is 230 years worth of precedent for "exceptions."
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Roza Shanina and Mosin-Nagant. Two of the finest flowers Mother Russia ever conceived. Unfortunately, only one was mass produced. |
#42
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https://www.supremecourt.gov/search....ic/20-843.html
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
#43
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Roza Shanina and Mosin-Nagant. Two of the finest flowers Mother Russia ever conceived. Unfortunately, only one was mass produced. |
#44
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#45
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#47
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Just thinking about what sort of timeline we’re facing:
2020 mid-Dec: request cert; response request, response extensions, Response and Reply 2021 mid-March: distribute then grant cert for next fall; briefs 2021 October: orals 2022 January or later: decision/opinion A long shot would be a relatively quick GVR with a per curiam opinion ala Caetano. But I doubt that, even with a dissent, because I think Thomas wants to write & sign a magnum opus 2nd A opinion as his legacy.
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. Last edited by Paladin; 01-10-2021 at 10:04 PM.. |
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#49
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#50
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NY Solicitor General submitted a request today for a thirty-day extension to file its opposition to granting cert from January 22 to February 22.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/DocketP...n%20motion.pdf
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. Last edited by Paladin; 01-08-2021 at 8:58 PM.. |
#51
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#52
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![]() It’s quite normal for the defending party to request an extension. It’s extremely out of the norm for them not to. In any case, this one won’t be heard until Fall, if they even grant cert at all. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
#53
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#54
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
#55
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“Call for KC Brown or Fabio Gets Goosed at the white courtesy phone.”
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
#59
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And with a simple amicus brief AS USUAL, both organizations claim to be a preeminent supporter of gun rights when soliciting millions of $ from gun owners pissed off at LaPierre's suits...claiming to be as much or more effective as the NRA and the NRA state affiliates that actually PAY for all this litigation.
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“Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.” ----Sen. Barry Goldwater "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ----Benjamin Franklin NRA life member SAF life member CRPA member Last edited by OCEquestrian; 01-23-2021 at 10:10 PM.. |
#60
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![]() Being serious. IMHO, even if the Court grants cert and ultimately holds that the 2A guarantees the right of law abiding persons to carry outside of the home and that the states cannot impose good cause, special need or similar conditions on that right, very little will have been gained on a national level. The vast majority of the states are shall issue for residents and many are also shall issue to non-residents. Many of the states that do not issue to non-residents, nonetheless recognize and honor permits from other states. In many CA counties, self-defense is sufficient good cause. So, for these people what, if anything, is gained? While it is a hot button issue for us, might the court consider that since it would only effect CA, NY, MA, CT, NJ, DE, MD & HI and not the other 42 states, it is not of sufficient national importance to grant cert? Last edited by BAJ475; 01-24-2021 at 2:14 PM.. Reason: Add comment |
#61
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Second, those 8 states represent more than a quarter of the people living in this country. I’d say that meets the bar for “national importance”. |
#62
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So, will SCOTUS take the case? On paper they should. They granted cert to a 2A case last year only to find it moot. However, 4 justices basically said “it’s time to take a 2A case”. Looking at the history of his dissents, we also know Thomas seems to have a particular interest in right-to-carry cases.
While they did decline to take several 2A cases last spring, it was only after weeks of deliberation. There is no other reasonable conclusion except that Roberts was not seen a a reliable vote or he outright threatened to join the liberals. With ACB on the bench, Roberts doesn’t matter anymore. HOWEVER, court packing remains a threat. I don’t think they would have support today to pack the court, but a high profile controversial decision on guns or abortion could change that. In, “the switch in time that saved nine”, we’ve seen the court act to preserve the institution itself by compromising on “New Deal” programs. So, do they take this case (we know they have 4 votes for cert and very likely have a majority) or do they defer until the packing threat had passed even though the clock may be ticking on Thomas? |
#63
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I agree that if the court grants cert and goes after “intermediate scrutiny” that would be monumental. I hope Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, Kavanaugh and Barrett see this case as their opportunity to put an end to any interest balancing approach in 2A cases. For fun, let's assume that the court takes this case and holds that the Second Amendment protects the right to carry in public. The next question will be: can one state bar law-abiding citizens of another state from exercising their Second Amendment rights in that state? If the answer is no, we won't need Congress to enact national reciprocity laws. I can see it now. John Doe, a resident of the state of Idaho versus the State of California. ![]() Then, for icing on the cake would be an opinion that the Second Amendment protect all weapons commonly possessed for lawful purposes, such as AR15s. ![]() |
#64
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States like the ones you mention above (CA, NY, NJ, HI etc) will implement crazy permit requirements; you must pass Marine Scout Sniper school, carry $1 million in liability insurance, take a gun safety class that doesn’t exists because we’ll refuse to certify instructors and then you may carry a musket on your birthday. These states will know that you can’t deny a constitutional right to those from another state or treat them differently (equal protection clause), but they will say “you need a permit issued by our state to carry in our state”. CA isn’t going to recognize out of state permits Then, it’s back to the courts |
#65
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It's a great case for them to take up, the only downside is this case is CCW-only. A case from NJ or MD leaves the OC/CC controversy out of the mix and thus may be easier for the court to decide. |
#66
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Bumped . . .
. . . because someone couldn't be bothered to scroll halfway down the Index and see the obvious. =8-(
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Justice Thomas: " I find it extremely improbable that the Framers understood the Second Amendment to protect little more than carrying a gun from the bedroom to the kitchen. " |
#67
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#68
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I did an awful job raising my kids. Of the four, only one is mildly center. The other three are full throated progressive windbags that I am seriously considering kicking out of my house the second college is over so they can begin paying the ridiculous taxes espoused by the idiots they voted for.
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#69
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Please keep this thread on topic...
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
#70
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So did the NY SG get his opposition brief filed? Today was the deadline, correct?
Edit: question answered in the first post link to the docket. Last edited by Sputnik; 02-23-2021 at 1:19 PM.. |
#71
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I think this is the last stand for carry outside the home in blue America. If they deny cert here, I'm not sure what legal vehicle could take down "may issue". I think the reply brief was written well enough to convince Roberts to deny cert, and strongly played to his desires to not rock the apple cart. ACB still a wildcard...
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#72
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Young, Nichols or Flanagan....
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240+ examples of CCWs Saving Lives. |
#73
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#74
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Kavanaugh joined Thomas on the dissent of the NJ carry case after NYSRPA was mooted. So I think he's good. ACB and Alito, who hasn't said a word on any of the public carry cases, are unknowns along with Roberts.
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#75
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Alito = Pro 2A / Pro Heller Kavanaugh = Pro 2A AND Pro Establishment / Pro Heller Roberts = Pro Establishment / Pro Heller Gorsuch = Pro Establishment / Recognizes Heller as Precedent Barrett = Pro Establishment / Recognizes Heller as Precedent Kagan = Pro Establishment / Recognizes Heller as Precedent Sotomayor = Pro Establishment / Recognizes Heller as Precendent Breyer = Pro Establishment / Anti-Heller It's 3-6 folks, and you can see the fundamental reason why. Also, Kavanaugh just like Bill Barr is Hillary's cleanup guy from Arkansas, he will not allow any criminal prosecution to make it past SCOTUS unscathed. Barrett is Bush's cleanup lady in Florida, and she will cover for the Bush family when necessary. =8-|
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Justice Thomas: " I find it extremely improbable that the Framers understood the Second Amendment to protect little more than carrying a gun from the bedroom to the kitchen. " |
#76
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The District Court judge for Flanagan already called out Flanagan for being a concealed carry case and made it crystal clear - they're not getting a Peruta redo.
So Flanagan is pretty much dead, especially since the conflicted NRA lawyer couldn't make the necessary argument due to his involvement in another case in which he argues exactly the opposite. So it's really: Young and Nichols Young = Ball artfully place in Hawaii's hands: "Give us something!" Nichols = CA Penal Code + Strike Through Pen If you really think about it, Mr. Nichols and Mr. Beck together have put CA9 in something of a pickle - even with any kind of moot action by Hawaii or California. =8-|
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Justice Thomas: " I find it extremely improbable that the Framers understood the Second Amendment to protect little more than carrying a gun from the bedroom to the kitchen. " |
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