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  #1  
Old 11-30-2022, 2:02 PM
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Default New California resident.

If a son moves to California and wishes to gift his California resident father a handgun, should he first report the handgun to California in the 60 day window and then gift the gun, or can he gift the gun to the father during the 60 day window without reporting it first?
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Old 11-30-2022, 2:10 PM
M1NM M1NM is offline
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He can gift it when he arrives. I'd wait until he gets his driver license and address here so it doesn't look like an interstate transfer that would have to go through an FFL.
If it's off roster I'd list it on his registration papers first just to show it's in CA legally.
He wasn't "just away at college" was he? CA may have considered him still a resident. In that case all his guns would need to be CA legal and be sent to an FFL for transfer to him in his home state (fed rule).

Last edited by M1NM; 11-30-2022 at 2:16 PM..
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  #3  
Old 11-30-2022, 2:23 PM
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Originally Posted by M1NM View Post
He can gift it when he arrives. I'd wait until he gets his driver license and address here so it doesn't look like an interstate transfer that would have to go through an FFL.
If it's off roster I'd list it on his registration papers first just to show it's in CA legally.
He wasn't "just away at college" was he? CA may have considered him still a resident. In that case all his guns would need to be CA legal and be sent to an FFL for transfer to him in his home state (fed rule).
Nope. Lived and worked in another state for 10 years, job transfer to CA.
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  #4  
Old 11-30-2022, 4:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
If a son moves to California and wishes to gift his California resident father a handgun, should he first report the handgun to California in the 60 day window and then gift the gun, or can he gift the gun to the father during the 60 day window without reporting it first?
As soon as he becomes a CA resident (obtains a valid CA DL/ID), he can legally gift it without having to utilize a CA FFL dealer to his father, afterwards his father will have 30 days to report it to CA DOJ.

New residents of CA have 60 days to do one of the following for CA legal firearms they bring with them to CA: [PC 27560(a)]
A. Report the firearm(s) to CA DOJ BOF. [PC 27560(a)(1)]
B. Transfer the firearm(s) through a CA FFL dealer or transfer the firearm(s) via an exempt method. [PC 27560(a)(2)]
C. Transfer the firearm(s) to a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27560(a)(3)]
D. Transfer/surrender the firearms to a law enforcement agency. [PC 27560(a)(4)]

Intra-familial transfers between CA resident immediate family members meet requirement B. [PC 27560(a)(2) and 27875(a)]



Penal Code 27560
(a) Within 60 days of bringing a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2014, any firearm, into this state, a personal firearm importer shall do one of the following:
(1) Forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report prescribed by the department including information concerning that individual and a description of the firearm in question.
(2) Sell or transfer the firearm in accordance with the provisions of Section 27545 or in accordance with the provisions of an exemption from Section 27545.
(3) Sell or transfer the firearm to a dealer licensed pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.
(4) Sell or transfer the firearm to a sheriff or police department.

Penal Code 27545
Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer’s license issued pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050).

Penal Code 27875
(a) Section 27545 does not apply to the transfer of a firearm by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means from one individual to another, if all of the following requirements are met:
(1) The transfer is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.
(2) The transfer is between members of the same immediate family.
(3) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person to whom it is transferred shall submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The reports that individuals complete pursuant to this subdivision shall be made available to them in a format prescribed by the department.
(4) Until January 1, 2015, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a valid handgun safety certificate if the firearm is a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2015, a valid firearm safety certificate for any firearm, except that in the case of a handgun, a valid unexpired handgun safety certificate may be used.
(5) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
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Old 11-30-2022, 4:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
As soon as he becomes a CA resident (obtains a valid CA DL/ID), he can legally gift it without having to utilize a CA FFL dealer to his father, afterwards his father will have 30 days to report it to CA DOJ.

New residents of CA have 60 days to do one of the following for CA legal firearms they bring with them to CA: [PC 27560(a)]
A. Report the firearm(s) to CA DOJ BOF. [PC 27560(a)(1)]
B. Transfer the firearm(s) through a CA FFL dealer or transfer the firearm(s) via an exempt method. [PC 27560(a)(2)]
C. Transfer the firearm(s) to a CA FFL dealer. [PC 27560(a)(3)]
D. Transfer/surrender the firearms to a law enforcement agency. [PC 27560(a)(4)]

Intra-familial transfers between CA resident immediate family members meet requirement B. [PC 27560(a)(2) and 27875(a)]



Penal Code 27560
(a) Within 60 days of bringing a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2014, any firearm, into this state, a personal firearm importer shall do one of the following:
(1) Forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report prescribed by the department including information concerning that individual and a description of the firearm in question.
(2) Sell or transfer the firearm in accordance with the provisions of Section 27545 or in accordance with the provisions of an exemption from Section 27545.
(3) Sell or transfer the firearm to a dealer licensed pursuant to Article 1 (commencing with Section 26700) and Article 2 (commencing with Section 26800) of Chapter 2.
(4) Sell or transfer the firearm to a sheriff or police department.

Penal Code 27545
Where neither party to the transaction holds a dealer’s license issued pursuant to Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive, the parties to the transaction shall complete the sale, loan, or transfer of that firearm through a licensed firearms dealer pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050).

Penal Code 27875
(a) Section 27545 does not apply to the transfer of a firearm by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means from one individual to another, if all of the following requirements are met:
(1) The transfer is infrequent, as defined in Section 16730.
(2) The transfer is between members of the same immediate family.
(3) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person to whom it is transferred shall submit a report to the Department of Justice, in a manner prescribed by the department, that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The reports that individuals complete pursuant to this subdivision shall be made available to them in a format prescribed by the department.
(4) Until January 1, 2015, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a valid handgun safety certificate if the firearm is a handgun, and commencing January 1, 2015, a valid firearm safety certificate for any firearm, except that in the case of a handgun, a valid unexpired handgun safety certificate may be used.
(5) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.
Thanks, Quiet! I should note that the handgun is an off-roster handgun.

Is a current CCW permit acceptable in lieu of a HSC?
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  #6  
Old 11-30-2022, 5:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
Thanks, Quiet! I should note that the handgun is an off-roster handgun.

Is a current CCW permit acceptable in lieu of a HSC?
Yes.
https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/hscfaqs#c6
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  #7  
Old 11-30-2022, 5:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
Is a current CCW permit acceptable in lieu of a HSC?
Yes. [PC 31700(a)(9)]

If submitting report via downloaded form and mailing it in, then write in "X41 CCW Permit Holder" in the FSC box on the form and include a copy of the valid CA CCW permit with the report.

If submitting report online via CFARS, then enter "999999" in the FSC box and enter "FSC exemption code X41 CCW permit holder" in the Comments box and upload a picture of the valid CA CCW permit.



Penal Code 31700
(a) The following persons, properly identified, are exempted from the firearm safety certificate requirement in subdivision (a) of Section 31615:
(9) Any individual who has a valid concealed weapons permit issued pursuant to Chapter 4 (commencing with Section 26150) of Division 5.

Penal Code 31615
(a) A person shall not do either of the following:
(1) Purchase or receive any firearm, except an antique firearm, without a valid firearm safety certificate, except that in the case of a handgun, an unexpired handgun safety certificate may be used.
(2) Sell, deliver, loan, or transfer any firearm, except an antique firearm, to any person who does not have a valid firearm safety certificate, except that in the case of a handgun, an unexpired handgun safety certificate may be used.
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Last edited by Quiet; 11-30-2022 at 5:32 PM..
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  #8  
Old 11-30-2022, 5:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoNOS67 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Yes. [PC 31700(a)(9)]

If submitting report via downloaded form and mailing it in, then write in "X41 CCW Permit Holder" in the FSC box on the form and include a copy of the valid CA CCW permit with the report.

If submitting report online via CFARS, then enter "999999" in the FSC box and enter "FSC exemption code X41 CCW permit holder" in the Comments box and upload a picture of the valid CA CCW permit.
Thanks, guys.

The fact that the gun is off-roster is not an issue?
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  #9  
Old 11-30-2022, 5:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Mustang View Post
The fact that the gun is off-roster is not an issue?
If the intent was to import it into CA for transfer, then yes, it would be considered a violation of the CA unsafe handgun laws. [PC 32000(a)(1)]

If the intent was to import it into CA to keep, then it would be exempt from CA unsafe handgun laws because they meet the requirements for a personal firearms importer, which allows the legal importation of CA legal off-Roster handguns. [PC 17000(a)(7)]
^After moving to CA, nothing prohibits the personal firearms importer from changing their mind from keeping it to needing to sell/transfer it due to financial hardship.

What must be avoided, is the establishment or acknowledgement that the intent was to bring the off-Roster handguns into CA for transfer.
^Posting "what should I buy and bring to CA for sale" type posts or collecting pre-orders from CA residents on a forum that is routinely monitored by LE agencies is considered establishing the intent to import for transfer and can be used as proof of violating CA unsafe handgun laws.



Penal Code 32000
(a)(1) A person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state for sale, keeps for sale, offers or exposes for sale, gives, or lends an unsafe handgun shall be punished by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year.

Penal Code 17000
(a) As used in this part, until January 1, 2014, any reference to the term “personal firearm importer” shall be deemed to mean “personal handgun importer” and, on and after January 1, 2014, any reference to the term “personal handgun importer” shall be deemed to mean “personal firearm importer.” A “personal handgun importer,” until January 1, 2014, and commencing January 1, 2014, a “personal firearm importer” means an individual who meets all of the following criteria:
(7) The individual intends to possess that handgun within this state on or after January 1, 1998, or in the case of a firearm that is not a handgun, he or she intends to possess that firearm within this state on or after January 1, 2014.
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Last edited by Quiet; 11-30-2022 at 5:50 PM..
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2022, 5:54 AM
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There is this thing that is useful for avoiding criminal culpability for violation of unjust laws - It is "keep quiet about it".
A very great many convictions occur based mostly on admissions by the accused - do not be that guy.
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Last edited by flyer898; 12-04-2022 at 8:47 AM..
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  #11  
Old 12-03-2022, 9:24 AM
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Your father having a CCW suggests he will want to add the gun to it. Some IA's will not add it until it is registered with AFS. If this may cause a problem, its worth transferring the firearm to your father in a PPT.
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Old 12-03-2022, 9:43 AM
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Originally Posted by flyer898 View Post
There is this thing that is useful for avoiding criminal culpability for violation of unjust laws - It is "keep quiet about it".
A very great convictions occur based mostly on admissions by the accused - do not be that guy.

Very wise words.
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  #13  
Old 12-04-2022, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyer898 View Post
There is this thing that is useful for avoiding criminal culpability for violation of unjust laws - It is "keep quiet about it".
A very great many convictions occur based mostly on admissions by the accused - do not be that guy.

^^^^ TRUE DAT ^^^^

JUST ASK BRUCE ABRAMSKI ..... HE DIDN'T EVEN ADMIT TO ANY WRONG DOING. F'n ATF and SCOTUS back in 2014 moved the goal post and changed the accepted definition of "STRAW PURCHASE". NOW based on INTENTIONS, rather than the prior standard of PROHIBITED PERSON.

Changing as many law abiding citizens as possible into criminals as fast as possible. Now has nothing to do with preventing crime and keeping guns from criminals.

Last edited by pacrat; 12-04-2022 at 11:28 PM..
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