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Old 08-26-2022, 12:02 PM
sass2924 sass2924 is offline
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Default UPS Cracking Down on Shipping

Just received this from UPS. Now you need separate accounts for firearms, parts and other non firearm related goods.

And now they are not allowing non licensed individuals to ship firearms " UPS prohibits the shipment of Firearm Products except from licensed importers,
licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18,
Chapter 44 of the United States Code) to (i) other licensed importers, licensed
manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors or (ii) government agencies."




This Agreement for Transportation of Firearms and Firearm Parts (“Agreement”) is made and
entered into by and between United Parcel Service, Inc. (“UPS”) and (“Shipper”)
for services for the shipment of Firearm Products, as defined below (“Firearm Products
Shipments”). This Agreement applies only to Firearm Products Shipments and only to Shipper,
the UPS Account Number(s), and the Shipping Location(s) set forth below. UPS and Shipper
may each be referred to in this Agreement individually as a “Party” and collectively as the
“Parties.”

Firearms Products Shipments for Shipper are subject to the following terms and conditions:

1. Applicable Terms. Firearms Products Shipments are governed by the terms and conditions set forth
in this Agreement, and in the versions of the UPS Tariff/Terms and Conditions of Service (currently
available at https://www.ups.com/assets/resources...service_us.pdf)
(“UPS Tariff/Terms”) and the UPS Procedures for Shipping Firearms (currently available at
[www.ups.com/firearams]) (“UPS Firearms Webpage”) in effect at the time of shipment (each of
which are hereby incorporated by reference into this Agreement). Shipper is responsible for
consulting the version of the UPS Tariff/Terms and UPS Firearms Webpage in effect at the time of
shipment for applicable terms and conditions.

All Firearm Products Shipments will also be governed by other applicable contract documents,
including the UPS Rate and Service Guide, in effect at the time of shipping.

2. Defined Terms: Capitalized terms used and not otherwise defined in this Agreement will have the
following meanings:

2.1 “Firearm” will have the same definition as set forth in Title 18, Chapter 44, and Title 26,
Chapter 53, of the United States Code.

2.2 “Firearm Part” is any part or component of a Firearm that does not by itself meet the
definition of a “Firearm.”

2.3 “Firearm Products” means Firearms and Firearm Parts. The term Firearm Products does not
include[list of exceptions].

3. Licensing Requirements:

3.1 UPS prohibits the shipment of Firearm Products except from licensed importers,
licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors (as defined in Title 18,
Chapter 44 of the United States Code) to (i) other licensed importers, licensed
manufacturers, licensed dealers, and licensed collectors or (ii) government agencies.

3.2 Notwithstanding the foregoing Section 3.1, where Shipper is otherwise in full
compliance with all applicable federal, state and local laws and UPS’s requirements for
the shipment of Firearm Products, Shipper, as a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, may tender Firearm Parts (but not
Firearms) for transportation to a non-licensed individual or business.

3.3 Shipper represents and warrants that it is properly licensed under all applicable federal
and state laws. Shipper further represents and warrants that Shipper is authorized to
sell, ship, or cause to be transported and delivered, Firearm Products Shipments to its
consignees.

3.4 Before making any Firearm Products Shipment under this Agreement, Shipper must
submit to UPS, by email to customercompliance@ups.com complete, current and
accurate licensing documentation of Shipper’s federal firearms license, as well as
satisfactory completion of, and compliance with, any other applicable licensing
requirements, including any applicable state requirements. Shipper may not tender
Firearm Products Shipments to UPS unless and until UPS has confirmed receipt in
writing of Shipper’s licensing documentation.


4. Geographic Coverage. Shipper will not ship any Firearm Products (or any replicas or simulated
firearms) internationally through UPS. UPS may eliminate Firearm Products Shipments service to
any domestic state in UPS’s sole and unlimited discretion without prior notice, and Shipper will
comply with any such geographic limitations.

5. Shipper Responsibility For Compliance With Applicable Law:

5.1 Shipper will be solely responsible for compliance with all laws, rules and regulations that
apply to the sale, purchase, shipment, transportation, delivery, receipt, transfer, possession, and
distribution of Firearm Products. Such laws, rules and regulations may include, but are not
limited to, requirements regarding age limitations, verification of a receiver’s ability to possess
Firearm Products, disclosures, background checks, packaging and labeling, shipping,
registration and reporting, payment and collection of taxes or fees, and licensing.
5.2 Shipper will be solely responsible for identifying and interpreting any applicable laws, rules or
regulations and for proper compliance therewith. Shipper acknowledges and agrees that this
function is exclusively Shipper’s responsibility and will not be UPS’s responsibility.
5.3 Shipper will not tender to UPS any Firearm Products Shipment that does not comply with all
applicable laws, rules and regulations. Shipper represents and warrants that all Firearm
Products Shipments tendered to UPS for shipment will be in compliance with all applicable
laws, rules and regulations.
5.4 UPS may in its sole and unlimited discretion demand from Shipper proof that Shipper has
complied with all applicable laws, rules and regulations, and Shipper will promptly comply
with any such demand.
5.5 UPS will have no liability to Shipper in circumstances where UPS complies with instructions
or requests from law enforcement or other governmental authorities (formal or informal), even
if such instructions or requests are, or appear to be, inconsistent with applicable laws, rules and
regulations.

6. Prohibited Firearm Products. UPS does not accept, and Shipper will not ship, certain
Firearm Products identified at the UPS Firearms Webpage. Shipper represents and warrants
that Firearm Products Shipments tendered to UPS for transportation do not contain prohibited
Firearm Products. UPS reserves the right to refuse to accept, transport, or deliver any Firearm
Products shipment that UPS, in its sole and unlimited discretion, determines does not comply
with UPS requirements for the shipment of Firearm Products or any applicable law or
regulation, and to discontinue any or all service to Shipper for, among other reasons, tendering
such a shipment. UPS further reserves the right, without liability to Shipper (including for loss
or damage to the shipment), to lawfully dispose of or submit to governmental authorities any
Firearm Products tendered for shipment which Shippers are prohibited from shipping, which
UPS is not authorized to accept, which UPS states that it will not accept, or which UPS has a
right to refuse.

7. Account Limited to Firearm Shipments.

7.1 The UPS Firearm Account Number(s) set forth below must be exclusively used for
shipments containing Firearms. Shipper will only ship Firearms under the UPS Firearm
Account Number(s) and will not use the UPS Firearm Account Number(s) to tender any
shipments other than Firearms.

7.2 The UPS Firearm Parts Account Number(s) set forth below must exclusively be used for
shipments containing Firearm Parts. Shipper will only ship Firearm Parts under the UPS
Firearm Parts Account Number(s) and will not use the UPS Firearm Parts Account
Number(s) to tender any shipments other than Firearm Parts.

7.3 For any and all other items, Shipper must use a separate UPS account number.

8. Delivery/Receiver Requirements:

8.1 Shipper will engage UPS to transport Firearms only if destined for consignees who are
federally licensed. Shipper will provide verification of licensing of its consignees to UPS
upon request.

8.2 Without limiting the foregoing, Shipper will engage UPS to transport Firearms only if
destined for consignees who are over the age of 21 and legally authorized to receive,
possess, and purchase Firearms.

8.3 Shipper must always use Adult Signature Required (“ASR”) and Direct Delivery Only
(DDO) service for packages containing Firearms. Shipper must designate ASR and DDO
at shipment processing using an approved UPS Shipping System.

9. Service Level, Packaging, and Labeling Requirements:

9.1 Shipper will only tender Firearm Products via service levels set forth at the UPS Firearms
Webpage.

9.2 Shipper will supply the UPS Service Provider with a hard copy summary manifest at the
time that the packages are tendered to UPS for shipment and provide UPS with Timely
Upload (as defined below) of electronic Package Level Detail (“PLD”) in a form
acceptable to UPS. PLD includes consignee’s full name, complete delivery address,
package weight and zone. “Timely Upload” means the electronic transmission of PLD to
UPS at the time the packages are tendered to UPS. Shipper will provide smart labels on all
packages tendered to UPS. A smart label includes a MaxiCode, Postal Bar Code, current
UPS Routing Code, appropriate UPS Service Icon and a UPS 1Z Tracking Number Bar
Code and complies with such other requirements for smart labels as described in the
current UPS Guide to Labeling, as updated from time to time by UPS. Shipper will ensure
that all shipping locations will use a UPS Automated Shipping System (as defined in the
UPS Tariff/Terms).

9.3 Shipper will comply with all packaging and labeling requirements set forth at the UPS
Firearms Webpage.

10. Tendering Firearm Products Shipments. Shipper will tender Firearm Products Shipments to UPS
at Shipper’s daily pickup location only.
11. Shipper Compliance With UPS Requirements. Shipper will comply with all of UPS’s packaging,
labeling, and other requirements set forth in this Agreement, including the requirements set forth in
the UPS Tariff/Terms or at the UPS Firearms Webpage, and any updates that may be made to those
requirements. Shipper’s compliance with UPS’s requirements does not alter or affect Shipper’s
responsibility under this Agreement to keep informed of and comply with all applicable laws, rules
and regulations relating to Firearm Products Shipments. Provisions of any UPS-provided packaging
or labeling, including packaging and labeling required by this Agreement, are not a representation or
warranty by UPS that the packaging or labeling complies with applicable laws, rules and regulations
for Firearm Products Shipments.
12. Shipper Compliance Program:

12.1 Shipper will develop, implement, and maintain a compliance program (“Shipper Compliance
Program”), as necessary to ensure that Shipper and its consignees are compliant with all laws,
rules and regulations that apply to the sale, purchase, shipment, transportation, delivery,
receipt, transfer, possession, and distribution of Firearm Products. The Shipper Compliance
Program will include: (1) training for sales and marketing employees regarding lawful
recipients, possessors, and purchasers of Firearm Products; (2) due diligence regarding
customer licensure or authorization to receive, possess, and purchase Firearm Products under
applicable federal, state, or local law; and (3) self-assessments of the Shipper Compliance
Program to guarantee its effectiveness.

12.2 Shipper will supply such evidence as UPS may request in its sole and unlimited discretion
relating to Shipper’s compliance with all applicable laws, rules and regulations. Within five
business days of such request, Shipper will supply order information (e.g., invoice, packing
list and any other relevant documentation) to demonstrate contents of specific packages
(tracking numbers) identified by UPS. UPS may audit Shipper at any time and for any
reason. The scope of audits of Shipper may include but are not limited to: opening and
inspecting Shipper’s shipments; examination and review of Shipper’s books and records
relevant to Firearm Products Shipments; and auditing the Shipper Compliance Program.

13. Indemnification. Shipper will indemnify, defend and hold harmless UPS and its parent company
and other affiliated companies, their officers, directors, employees, agents, and their successors
and assigns, from all claims, demands, expenses (including reasonable attorneys’ fees), liabilities,
penalties, costs, causes of action, enforcement procedures, and suits of any kind or nature, arising
out of or related to any actual or alleged Firearm Products Shipment, Shipper’s breach of this
Agreement, Shipper’s breach of any Representation or Warranty under this Agreement, or
Shipper’s failure to comply with any applicable laws, rules or regulations, whether such action is
brought by a governmental agency or other person or entity.

14. Limitation of Liability. UPS will have no liability to Shipper, including but not limited to any
liability for indirect, special, incidental, or consequential damages (including lost profits), arising
from or relating to UPS’s compliance with instructions or requests from law enforcement or other
governmental authorities (formal or informal, with or without legal process), even if such
instructions or requests are, or appear to be, inconsistent with applicable laws, rules and
regulations. UPS’s liability to Shipper for the loss of or damage to goods shipped will be as set
forth in the UPS Tariff/Terms and UPS Rate and Service Guide in effect at the time of shipping.

15. Term. The term of this Agreement will be for one year from the Effective Date as defined below.
This Agreement will automatically renew for successive one-year periods unless terminated in
accordance with this Agreement. UPS may suspend or terminate delivery services for Shipper, or
terminate this Agreement immediately and cease providing service, if UPS determines in its sole and
unlimited discretion that such action is prudent or necessary. This

Last edited by sass2924; 08-26-2022 at 12:32 PM..
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  #2  
Old 08-26-2022, 12:44 PM
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yea we discussed this earlier i think we came to the consensus is that the revieving ffl will initiate a shipping label

so there should be no problem with factory repairs

the only issue is with shipping a gun to a smaller ffl for sale or transfer

as for parts well they are a private company and if they choose not to ship certain things its their right i just think its a bit odd for them to refuse to ship some scope rings within the united states borders
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  #3  
Old 08-26-2022, 1:04 PM
sass2924 sass2924 is offline
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It would be a problem for private parties that sell long gun on Gun Broker or online forums. I don't think most receiving FFL's would want to generate a label for an inbound transfer.

Last edited by sass2924; 08-26-2022 at 1:11 PM..
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  #4  
Old 08-30-2022, 1:22 PM
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Hello - Are there any other alternatives? I noticed shipmygun.com website is down for maintenance.
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  #5  
Old 08-30-2022, 3:58 PM
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It’s starting. Now UPS wants up in your business. ? Not good.
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  #6  
Old 08-31-2022, 8:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceanbob View Post
It’s starting. Now UPS wants up in your business. ? Not good.
What?? That makes no sense...
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Old 09-02-2022, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBlueBoy View Post
Hello - Are there any other alternatives? I noticed shipmygun.com website is down for maintenance.
Looks like shipmygun.com is back online. I guess they have another solution to offer for shipping.
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  #8  
Old 09-02-2022, 10:57 AM
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UPS is so screwed up when it comes to shipping firearms. They don't even know their own procedures. Not worth doing business with them.
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Old 09-02-2022, 11:01 AM
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I hope they don't restrict parts or reload components. My UPS guys are amazing. I can literally set my clock with their deliveries.
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Old 09-02-2022, 12:05 PM
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Is anyone familiar with the requirements for shipping C&R handguns out of California? I have three C&R handguns I want to sell, I know that selling them within the state requires that I ship thru FFL dealers on both ends, but what about shipping out of state?

Can an unlicensed Californian seller ship directly to a C&R or FFL in another state? I suppose if UPS is no longer taking shipments from non-licensees it's a moot point.
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Old 09-04-2022, 9:52 PM
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Sad. Fedex is worse. And when they disallow shipping, what then?

Local CA ffl’s will offer to ship USPS. For a small $150 fee.
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Old 09-06-2022, 7:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
Sad. Fedex is worse. And when they disallow shipping, what then?

Local CA ffl’s will offer to ship USPS. For a small $150 fee.
I sense a little sarcasm here ;-)

I ship firearms for non-licensed folks. USPS rates are generally very cheap for shipping handguns and I can usually ship a handgun, including my fee, for about the same as a non-licensee can ship UPS or Fed Ex. I also get very competitive rates from Fed Ex, sometimes cheaper than USPS.

I'm not trying to solicit business, just suggesting you don't write off shipping via your local FFL.
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Old 09-06-2022, 7:50 AM
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I just have no faith that the cost will be less. I shipped a BFR revolver by fed-ex once. Never again. That thing is 18 inches long, so based on the size of the box the shipping was astronomical. The major cost of the repair in fact.

After that I only shipped UPS who has far, far lower rates. It is especially useful for shipping to an FFL in case of a sale on calguns or gunbroker. Without UPS, it really just leaves going though a dealer which is an enormous hassle here. FFL’s have a tough enough time making money as it is. It’s either a shop that has no interest in taking this business, or a kitchentable type business where appointments are so hard to get I practically have to take half a day off work just to make the scheduling work.

Yeah, I’m not pleased about the decision. UPS may not be perfect, but they are easy to schedule and don’t **** customers like Fed-ex.
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Old 09-13-2022, 10:07 AM
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Can we chime in here and thread hijack a little to complain about FedEx and thier now current policy of scanning your ID/DL when delivering for adult signature required even though their website policy states that you can choose as the recipient to just have them manually input your DOB and name. We spent 2 hours on the phone with FedEx complaing about this as one of their drivers chose "refused delivery" on a package when we didn't want to scan our ID with him and he didn't want to see their own policy on the topic and or call a supervisor.

Seems like for F-ery like how CC companies are doing with gun sales, common carriers seem to be chosing to mess with Dealers just to make it harder on all of us. Probably at the bidding of some WH or senator.

Its all BS fellas, and we all need to push back on these companies that are going to implement BS policies.
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Old 09-16-2022, 6:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nardo1895 View Post
I sense a little sarcasm here ;-)

I ship firearms for non-licensed folks. USPS rates are generally very cheap for shipping handguns and I can usually ship a handgun, including my fee, for about the same as a non-licensee can ship UPS or Fed Ex. I also get very competitive rates from Fed Ex, sometimes cheaper than USPS.

I'm not trying to solicit business, just suggesting you don't write off shipping via your local FFL.
You are the exception on rates. Most near me want $75 plus the shipping to even touch the firearm.
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Old 09-17-2022, 8:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microwaveguy View Post
You are the exception on rates. Most near me want $75 plus the shipping to even touch the firearm.
I'm curious, why would any shipper know what your shipping? It's my understanding (other than the PO) that you're not supposed to disclose a firearm shipment.
The last time I was asked (some years ago) I stated that the shipment was metal parts...
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Old 09-17-2022, 2:39 PM
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Which shipper policy or government alphabet agency website did you read that from?

CGN doesn’t count
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Old 09-17-2022, 2:42 PM
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15 subsections to the law? Any Americans should be able to read and comprehend any written law. You have to hire an attorney to summerize in layman's terms 1 law about shipping a package
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Old 09-17-2022, 9:54 PM
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Wide spread non compliance can be effective on having this BS fall by the wayside. Just dont tell them whats in it. You're still within the law, just not their policy. If you want to insure it, they'll want to know whats in it. Machined parts are just as expensive as guns.
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Old 09-17-2022, 11:49 PM
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Thats fine and dandy untill the damage your stuff and you try and make a claim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kendog4570 View Post
Wide spread non compliance can be effective on having this BS fall by the wayside. Just dont tell them whats in it. You're still within the law, just not their policy. If you want to insure it, they'll want to know whats in it. Machined parts are just as expensive as guns.
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Old 09-18-2022, 7:17 AM
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Been shipping weekly for over 15 years. Have yet to lose one or damage. I NEVER tell them whats in it, its none of their business and its incumbent on me to stay within the law, not for them to become legislator, judge and jury over the issue. This rule is most likely to affect the big boys like S&W and such. First thing UPS gets is more money. Hopefully a shipping company will rise up out of this and just do normal business with folks. If UPS and Fedex don't crush them.
If we don't push back, they win.

Last edited by kendog4570; 09-18-2022 at 7:29 AM..
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Old 09-19-2022, 6:07 AM
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If USPS wants to know if you're shipping a gun, that's not law, only policy?
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Old 09-19-2022, 9:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
If USPS wants to know if you're shipping a gun, that's not law, only policy?
Why would they ask? They only want to know if your shipping flammables, fragile, and such. You are not required to tell them what is in it, only declare that there is nothing hazardous, perishable, fragile, liquid, perfume, mercury, or lithium batteries, in the box.


Their policy:
They "recommend" ($$ Hint hint) that you send long guns registered, and no markings on outside of box to suggest a firearm. Priority gets there just the same. Handguns are not mail-able except dealer to dealer with a form 1508 given to the PO rep. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun for a non licensee.


UPS can piss up a rope. You dont have to tell them what is in it. You are still within the law when you ship. If you dont tell them, and have a claim, you may not get reimbursed. What are they going to do? Cancel your account? Put you on Double Secret Probation? Eff em.
Use PayPal Shipstation to make UPS labels and drop it off at a ship hub or contract drop off. I have an account with UPS and PayPal rates are 2/3rds or less than my "discount" through my account. Screw them. They'll come around when black turns to red in their ledgers. Just like Ebay did when they banned all gun parts listings a few years back. The real impact of this "rule" is going to hit the distributors and suppliers, and smaller manufacturers. They're trapped between FedEx and UPS.

Last edited by kendog4570; 09-19-2022 at 10:10 AM..
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Old 11-28-2022, 11:50 PM
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Default ATF Rule for Shipping UPS/FedEx, Applies to FFLs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kendog4570 View Post
Why would they ask? They only want to know if your shipping flammables, fragile, and such. You are not required to tell them what is in it, only declare that there is nothing hazardous, perishable, fragile, liquid, perfume, mercury, or lithium batteries, in the box.


Their policy:
They "recommend" ($$ Hint hint) that you send long guns registered, and no markings on outside of box to suggest a firearm. Priority gets there just the same. Handguns are not mail-able except dealer to dealer with a form 1508 given to the PO rep. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun for a non licensee.


UPS can piss up a rope. You dont have to tell them what is in it. You are still within the law when you ship. If you dont tell them, and have a claim, you may not get reimbursed. What are they going to do? Cancel your account? Put you on Double Secret Probation? Eff em.
Use PayPal Shipstation to make UPS labels and drop it off at a ship hub or contract drop off. I have an account with UPS and PayPal rates are 2/3rds or less than my "discount" through my account. Screw them. They'll come around when black turns to red in their ledgers. Just like Ebay did when they banned all gun parts listings a few years back. The real impact of this "rule" is going to hit the distributors and suppliers, and smaller manufacturers. They're trapped between FedEx and UPS.
I am an FFL, small start up. A customer asked me to ship a handgun to an FFL in Kentucky. Happy to, but it seems impossible to arrange the shipping agreement with UPS or FedEx. You mentioned that the law does not require me to inform UPS if I am shipping a firearm to another FFL. However, I noticed this ATF rule, does this apply to FFLs or just unlicensed shippers?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-...ntract-carrier
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  #25  
Old 11-29-2022, 8:13 AM
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Originally Posted by RipTownTech View Post

Looks like a new rule/"law". Jan 2020?

I tell the agent where I ship it contains firearm. Get a receipt when I drop it off. Covers the letter of the law, maybe not the spirit.
Hopefully a carrier will rise up out of the ashes of this crap and work with us, like FedEx did when UPS wouldn't give Sears a break on volume shipping way back when. Now FedEx is the same or worse.
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  #26  
Old 11-29-2022, 8:28 AM
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Might be easier and cheaper just to use USPS.
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  #27  
Old 11-29-2022, 8:48 AM
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Originally Posted by RipTownTech View Post
I am an FFL, small start up. A customer asked me to ship a handgun to an FFL in Kentucky. Happy to, but it seems impossible to arrange the shipping agreement with UPS or FedEx. You mentioned that the law does not require me to inform UPS if I am shipping a firearm to another FFL. However, I noticed this ATF rule, does this apply to FFLs or just unlicensed shippers?

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-...ntract-carrier
You copied and pasted a truncated link.

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Old 11-29-2022, 9:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHawk View Post
You copied and pasted a truncated link.

Try this one: https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/may-...ntract-carrier
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Old 11-29-2022, 10:05 AM
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That link is for non-licensed shippers.

In any case I think USPS is a better choice for shipping a handgun.
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Old 11-29-2022, 12:07 PM
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I think I am going with Shipmygun.com. Seems like a better option all around.
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Old 11-29-2022, 2:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Nardo1895 View Post
That link is for non-licensed shippers.

In any case I think USPS is a better choice for shipping a handgun.
I thought USPS would not ship handguns?
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  #32  
Old 11-29-2022, 3:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RipTownTech View Post
I think I am going with Shipmygun.com. Seems like a better option all around.
Let us know how that works. I called Ship My Gun and they said it would not be an issue but they also were vague when I asked about the new law. Not sure if they are considered a FFL by UPS. I would kind of doubt it because they say they are not to be considered the shipping FFL on the receiving FFL's paperwork.

Last edited by Steve45-70; 11-29-2022 at 4:17 PM.. Reason: spelling
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  #33  
Old 11-29-2022, 3:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RipTownTech View Post
I thought USPS would not ship handguns?
They will ship handguns if you are a dealer. That is what the Form 1508 I mentioned on your FFL Only post is for - you are verifying you are a dealer. The only requirement is they have to go Priority Mail.
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  #34  
Old 11-29-2022, 3:40 PM
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https://about.usps.com/forms/ps1508.pdf
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  #35  
Old 11-29-2022, 4:39 PM
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Can I still ship ammo via ups as private party?

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  #36  
Old 11-29-2022, 7:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RipTownTech View Post
That says the page was last reviewed in 2020 not that there was a new law or even a change made to the page. In fact it said the exact same thing back in 2015 and probably even before then
https://web.archive.org/web/20150905...ntract-carrier


Also, ATF never goes into the legal weeds with their FAQ answers. The actual law, which they cite, says that you do not have to notify the carrier what you are shipping, if the gun is going to a FFL and is shipping by common or contract carrier (ie not USPS)

27 CFR 478.1

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.31


Quote:
a) No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped:
Also note the law applies to ammo too. It is unlikely that such notice happens in many cases with ammo.

If you are a FFL, you have a lot to learn. You might be able trust an ATF public FAQ when they give you an answer that favors 2A, but do not trust the FAQ when they give you an anti-2A answer. Always review the actual laws, because ATF likes to spread FUD too (or maybe they just give they simplest answer that errs on the side of caution since these FAQs are directed to the lowest common denominator aka the public)

Welcome to Calguns
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Last edited by SkyHawk; 11-29-2022 at 7:15 PM..
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  #37  
Old 11-30-2022, 2:42 PM
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Coincidence maybe?
Have an expensive upper coming via UPS and UPS emailed me just now saying my package was damaged in transit...
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  #38  
Old 12-20-2022, 8:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kendog4570 View Post
Been shipping weekly for over 15 years. Have yet to lose one or damage. I NEVER tell them whats in it, its none of their business and its incumbent on me to stay within the law, not for them to become legislator, judge and jury over the issue. This rule is most likely to affect the big boys like S&W and such. First thing UPS gets is more money. Hopefully a shipping company will rise up out of this and just do normal business with folks. If UPS and Fedex don't crush them.
If we don't push back, they win.
Agreed totally.
Remember back in the days when one can ship handguns on regular Ground UPS until they stopped that and required you to pay for 2 days Overnight Express or faster? And the real reason for them to change policy:
Due to excessive in-house thefts in their shipping centers because handguns are expensive and small, therefore easier to sneak out and be stolen by their own employees!
Go figured??!!
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  #39  
Old 12-20-2022, 6:07 PM
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I just have an 03, but was finally able to set up my firearm and firearm parts accounts with UPS. All done via email and docusign.

I still won’t tell them what’s inside, haha!!
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If I were you, I would not pass this up. I would not let this go by...this is rare.
Come on...what harm??
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  #40  
Old 12-20-2022, 6:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Whiterabbit View Post
Sad. Fedex is worse. And when they disallow shipping, what then?

Local CA ffl’s will offer to ship USPS. For a small $150 fee.
So shipping my daughter's .22 Mossberg she won at a Friends of NRA dinner to her out of state is not worth the effort.

Wonderful.
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