Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > POLITICS, LITIGATION AND ACTIVISM > California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism > Temp Post-Duncan Mag Forum
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-01-2019, 2:50 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,418
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default Don't use large-cap mags in mag-locked guns

Setting aside the effects of the Benitez ruling, it's important to realize some things have NOT changed.

Can I use LCMs in my 'featureless' centerfire semiautomatic rifles??


Yes.



Can I use LCMs in my RAW -Registered Assault Weapon(s)?


Yes.

IF YOU REGISTERED, the registered guns do NOT have a 'fixed magazine'. If you registered a 'bullet-buttoned' gun, under the new law that is NOT a 'fixed magazine' gun.



Can I use LCMs in my gun that has a new magazine locking device (open action to release mag)?

No.

32310 (the narrow subject of Judge Benitez's ruling in Duncan) is about just crimes with magazines; the definition of large-capacity magazine is independent of 32310.

'Assault weapon' law is a different piece - in this case: PC 30515 -- And 30515 does not even use the term 'large capacity magazine' - it says "a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds."
Quote:
30515.

(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
...
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
Your new mag locking device creates a 'fixed magazine' - you probably did that to avoid registering.

Using a LCM in a fixed magazine device creates an 'assault weapon'. That's a felony. Do not do that.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.




Last edited by Librarian; 04-01-2019 at 2:58 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-01-2019, 2:59 PM
Subotai's Avatar
Subotai Subotai is offline
I need a LIFE!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Occupied Vespuchia
Posts: 10,875
iTrader: 27 / 100%
Default

Seems to me that this could fall with the Benetiz ruling.
__________________
RKBA Clock: soap box, ballot box, jury box, cartridge box (Say When!)
Free Vespuchia!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-01-2019, 3:04 PM
BucDan BucDan is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,998
iTrader: 9 / 100%
Default

Should sticky this and a redirect note at the top of the forums so people don't get confused.

It's great that you put the language in layman's terms as well.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-01-2019, 3:05 PM
edgerly779 edgerly779 is online now
CGN/CGSSA Contributor
CGN Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: canoga park, ca
Posts: 19,434
iTrader: 109 / 100%
Default

How many times do we have to tell these twits. Many posts with this info. Lotsa nummies out there. 10 plus round mag in fixed mag semi auto = Assault Weapon. Also same for ar and ak pistols.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-01-2019, 3:40 PM
shaocaholica shaocaholica is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 889
iTrader: 3 / 100%
Default

RAW pistols are ok right?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-01-2019, 3:48 PM
sonofeugene's Avatar
sonofeugene sonofeugene is online now
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 3,803
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankm View Post
Seems to me that this could fall with the Benetiz ruling.
Me thinks for now, Librarian is correct but that if the Benitez ruling holds, that would be grounds for going after PC 30515. So, your point is well taken.

In the meantime, can someone simply convert a fixed mag AR to a full featureless and be good to go? Seems doing that is well within the law.
__________________
Let us not pray to be sheltered from dangers but to be fearless when facing them. - Rabindranath Tagore

A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes the hand bleed that uses it. - Rabindranath Tagore

Talent hits a target no one else can hit. Genius hits a target no one else can see. - Arthur Schopenhaur
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-01-2019, 3:53 PM
peter95's Avatar
peter95 peter95 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Chino Hills
Posts: 2,488
iTrader: 159 / 99%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofeugene View Post
Me thinks for now, Librarian is correct but that if the Benitez ruling holds, that would be grounds for going after PC 30515. So, your point is well taken.

In the meantime, can someone simply convert a fixed mag AR to a full featureless and be good to go? Seems doing that is well within the law.
From my understanding, you can. Fix mag ar to featurelss. Im not a lawyer
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-01-2019, 3:58 PM
ambis ambis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 152
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

....not for RAW pistols though, right? RAW pistols can take > 10 round mags right?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-01-2019, 3:59 PM
ambis ambis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 152
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

I have the same question too.....
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-01-2019, 4:00 PM
nicky c nicky c is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 465
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ambis View Post
....not for RAW pistols though, right? RAW pistols can take > 10 round mags right?
Dude... it's a RAW, you can put whatever you want into it.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-01-2019, 4:00 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,418
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankm View Post
Seems to me that this could fall with the Benetiz ruling.
If things were rational in CA, much of the reasoning in Duncan should apply to a new suit against many of CA’s gun laws — but such suits must be filed specifically against the laws, there is no ‘penumbra’ of Duncan that sweeps up other parts of Penal Code.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-01-2019, 4:04 PM
Shadowdrop Shadowdrop is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 494
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicky c View Post
Dude... it's a RAW, you can put whatever you want into it.
Well, except for a standard mag release...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-01-2019, 4:11 PM
nicky c nicky c is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 465
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowdrop View Post
Well, except for a standard mag release...
Well, okay anything except that.

For now...
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-01-2019, 6:26 PM
MJB's Avatar
MJB MJB is offline
CGSSA Associate
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,864
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

This is so painful.....thx for the clarification on BS Law......ugh
__________________
One life so don't blow it......Always die with your boots on!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-01-2019, 7:50 PM
foothillman's Avatar
foothillman foothillman is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: El Dorado County
Posts: 874
iTrader: 31 / 100%
Default


Last edited by foothillman; 07-14-2019 at 11:10 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-01-2019, 8:24 PM
treborscott treborscott is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 57
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default rim fire??

any opinion on over 10 mag in a 10/22
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-01-2019, 8:41 PM
sl0re10 sl0re10 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7,242
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
Can I use LCMs in my RAW -Registered Assault Weapon(s)?


Yes.

IF YOU REGISTERED, the registered guns do NOT have a 'fixed magazine'. If you registered a 'bullet-buttoned' gun, under the new law that is NOT a 'fixed magazine' gun.
I remember people being not sure what the new law meant in that regard.

So; if it is a registered raw does the bullet button need to stay on?

and/or to double check; larger than 10 round magazine is ok on them?

The flowchart makes a rotating magazine also seem ok on a raw. ?

Thanks

Last edited by sl0re10; 04-01-2019 at 8:47 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-01-2019, 8:42 PM
curtisfong's Avatar
curtisfong curtisfong is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,887
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by foothillman View Post
This is how I see the "assault weapons' law
I have no idea how CA. defines a bottle rocket.
You forgot the part where lawyers make up a term for something that has a completely different plain English meaning, then expect you to follow their orders as to how you speak English.
__________________
The Rifle on the Wall

"“[S]cientific proof” of both gun-rights and gun-control theories “is very hard to get”; therefore, requiring “some substantial scientific proof to show that a [firearm] law will indeed substantially reduce crime and injury” is tantamount to applying strict scrutiny to, and almost certainly will lead to invalidation of, the law." - Kamala Harris

Lawyers and their Stockholm Syndrome
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-01-2019, 9:09 PM
Librarian's Avatar
Librarian Librarian is offline
Administrator
CGN Contributor - Lifetime
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cottage Grove, OR
Posts: 44,418
iTrader: 4 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sl0re10 View Post
I remember people being not sure what the new law meant in that regard.

So; if it is a registered raw does the bullet button need to stay on?

and/or to double check; larger than 10 round magazine is ok on them?

The flowchart makes a rotating magazine also seem ok on a raw. ?

Thanks
CADOJ insists that the bullet-buttons remain on if you registered the gun with a BB. I don't understand why.

But as noted, a BB no longer qualifies to make a rifle 'fixed mag', so can't create an 'assault weapon' by using a 11+ mag in such a registered gun.

What kind of rotating mag exists for a centerfire semi-auto? I don't think of a drum as a 'rotating mag'. IIRC, rotating cylinders are mentioned in the context of shotguns.
__________________
ARCHIVED Calguns Foundation Wiki here: http://web.archive.org/web/201908310...itle=Main_Page

Frozen in 2015, it is falling out of date and I can no longer edit the content. But much of it is still good!
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane."

- Marcus Aurelius
Ann Althouse: “Begin with the hypothesis that what they did is what they wanted to do. If they postured that they wanted to do something else, regard that as a con. Work from there. The world will make much more sense.”

Not a lawyer, just Some Guy On The Interwebs.



Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-01-2019, 9:20 PM
Cato's Avatar
Cato Cato is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Alhambra
Posts: 5,659
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
CADOJ insists that the bullet-buttons remain on if you registered the gun with a BB. I don't understand why.
Spite?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-01-2019, 9:28 PM
curtisfong's Avatar
curtisfong curtisfong is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,887
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
CADOJ insists that the bullet-buttons remain on if you registered the gun with a BB. I don't understand why.
Oh we all know why. But ask people like FGG, and they'll insist there is some sort of magical legal logic that makes it all sensible. You know, stuff the average non-lawyer could never comprehend.
__________________
The Rifle on the Wall

"“[S]cientific proof” of both gun-rights and gun-control theories “is very hard to get”; therefore, requiring “some substantial scientific proof to show that a [firearm] law will indeed substantially reduce crime and injury” is tantamount to applying strict scrutiny to, and almost certainly will lead to invalidation of, the law." - Kamala Harris

Lawyers and their Stockholm Syndrome
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-01-2019, 9:44 PM
ohsmily ohsmily is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: El Dorado Hills (Sac area)
Posts: 8,745
iTrader: 36 / 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frankm View Post
Seems to me that this could fall with the Benetiz ruling.
No. No. No. Not on this ruling. A subsequent case/ruling, maybe.
__________________
Expert firearms attorney: https://www.rwslaw.com/team/adam-j-richards/

Check out https://www.firearmsunknown.com/. Support a good calgunner local to San Diego.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-01-2019, 9:45 PM
ohsmily ohsmily is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: El Dorado Hills (Sac area)
Posts: 8,745
iTrader: 36 / 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonofeugene View Post
In the meantime, can someone simply convert a fixed mag AR to a full featureless and be good to go? Seems doing that is well within the law.
Yes.
__________________
Expert firearms attorney: https://www.rwslaw.com/team/adam-j-richards/

Check out https://www.firearmsunknown.com/. Support a good calgunner local to San Diego.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-01-2019, 9:46 PM
ohsmily ohsmily is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: El Dorado Hills (Sac area)
Posts: 8,745
iTrader: 36 / 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowdrop View Post
Well, except for a standard mag release...
Why not? What would they charge you with? The only available charge is PC 30605, possession of an unregistered assault weapon. It is a registered assault weapon.
__________________
Expert firearms attorney: https://www.rwslaw.com/team/adam-j-richards/

Check out https://www.firearmsunknown.com/. Support a good calgunner local to San Diego.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-01-2019, 9:49 PM
ohsmily ohsmily is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: El Dorado Hills (Sac area)
Posts: 8,745
iTrader: 36 / 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
CADOJ insists that the bullet-buttons remain on if you registered the gun with a BB. I don't understand why.

But as noted, a BB no longer qualifies to make a rifle 'fixed mag', so can't create an 'assault weapon' by using a 11+ mag in such a registered gun.

What kind of rotating mag exists for a centerfire semi-auto? I don't think of a drum as a 'rotating mag'. IIRC, rotating cylinders are mentioned in the context of shotguns.
A prosecutor lost on that exact issue in which the DOJ head expert Special Agent Supervisor and I both testified as experts (NOT binding; it was just a single criminal prosecution against an individual). As a result of that, DAs in two other cases in which I was involved either dumped AW charges and/or substantially modified the offers (messy other cases with more than just AW charges). Remember that these cases are not binding or even persuasive in other cases necessarily. However, the DOJ can insist all they want, the PC does NOT support their position that bullet buttons must remain on registered assault weapons. The only available charge is PC 30605, possession of an unreg'ed assault weapon. Registration pursuant to PC 30900 means it is not unregistered. DOJ has no authority to regulate possession or manner of possession after registration. They only had authority to regulate the registration wherein they could arguably demand BBs for registration.

This is not legal advice. There is risk to virtually anything involving firearms in CA. You can manage your own risk and decide what to do. I, myself, am comfortable stating here on a public forum that I have twenty registered assault weapons, one of which dates back to 1999, the remaining 19 were from the latest reg period. None of my registered assault weapons have any magazine locking devices installed including bullet buttons at this time though they were, of course, lawfully possessed as non-AWs before 1/1/17 and had BBs (with respect to the recent 19 firearms) when submitted for registration and until registration was confirmed.
__________________
Expert firearms attorney: https://www.rwslaw.com/team/adam-j-richards/

Check out https://www.firearmsunknown.com/. Support a good calgunner local to San Diego.

Last edited by ohsmily; 04-01-2019 at 9:56 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 04-01-2019, 9:51 PM
curtisfong's Avatar
curtisfong curtisfong is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,887
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
The DOJ lost on that exact issue (NOT binding) in a case in which I testified as an expert. As a result of that, DAs in two other cases either dumped AW charges and/or substantially modified the offers (messy other cases with more than just AW charges). The DOJ can insist all they want, the PC does NOT support their position that bullet buttons must remain on registered assault weapons. The only available charge is PC 30605, possession of an unreg'ed assault weapon. Registration pursuant to PC 30900 means it is not unregistered. DOJ has no authority to regulate possession or manner of possession after registration. They only had authority to regulate the registration.
Any chance you can post a link to that case? That is exactly what I have been saying forever (bold). FGG in particular would sneer at you for even suggesting it.
__________________
The Rifle on the Wall

"“[S]cientific proof” of both gun-rights and gun-control theories “is very hard to get”; therefore, requiring “some substantial scientific proof to show that a [firearm] law will indeed substantially reduce crime and injury” is tantamount to applying strict scrutiny to, and almost certainly will lead to invalidation of, the law." - Kamala Harris

Lawyers and their Stockholm Syndrome

Last edited by curtisfong; 04-01-2019 at 9:53 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 04-01-2019, 9:59 PM
ohsmily ohsmily is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: El Dorado Hills (Sac area)
Posts: 8,745
iTrader: 36 / 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisfong View Post
Any chance you can post a link to that case? That is exactly what I have been saying forever (bold). FGG in particular would sneer at you for even suggesting it.
There is no "link" (it isn't a published case or even an unpublished case; there is no record of appeal, only a holding from a trial court judge finding that the jury should receive a jury instruction which stated that if they found he lawfully possessed it with a BB prior to 1/1/17, that they should find him not guilty even though it had a standard magazine release at the time of seizure in 2017. I also can't reveal client information anyway. But remember that this case is not binding. It was just an individual prosecution of a dude who was arrested for several items including AWs.

NOTE that I edited the post you quoted for clarity and to be more precise (the DOJ was not a party to the prosecution; only an expert witness)
__________________
Expert firearms attorney: https://www.rwslaw.com/team/adam-j-richards/

Check out https://www.firearmsunknown.com/. Support a good calgunner local to San Diego.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 04-01-2019, 10:02 PM
curtisfong's Avatar
curtisfong curtisfong is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,887
iTrader: 12 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
There is no "link" (it isn't a published case or even an unpublished case; there is no record of appeal, only a holding from a trial court judge finding that the jury should receive a jury instruction which stated that if they found he lawfully possessed it with a BB prior to 1/1/17, that they should find him not guilty even though it had a standard magazine release at the time of seizure in 2017. I also can't reveal client information anyway. But remember that this case is not binding. It was just an individual prosecution of a dude who was arrested for several items including AWs.

NOTE that I edited the post you quoted for clarity and to be more precise (the DOJ was not a party to the prosecution; only an expert witness)
Thank you. Even though the case is neither binding nor published it confirms my suspicions. Yes, for the record, I know there is still significant risk in defying the DoJ's self-published underground regulations, and I will continue to warn others that that is the case.
__________________
The Rifle on the Wall

"“[S]cientific proof” of both gun-rights and gun-control theories “is very hard to get”; therefore, requiring “some substantial scientific proof to show that a [firearm] law will indeed substantially reduce crime and injury” is tantamount to applying strict scrutiny to, and almost certainly will lead to invalidation of, the law." - Kamala Harris

Lawyers and their Stockholm Syndrome
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 04-01-2019, 11:29 PM
sl0re10 sl0re10 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7,242
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What kind of rotating mag exists for a centerfire semi-auto? I don't think of a drum as a 'rotating mag'. IIRC, rotating cylinders are mentioned in the context of shotguns.
I have a raw shotgun. So; is a shotgun drum a rotating cylinder?

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 04-02-2019, 12:33 AM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is online now
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 29,996
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sl0re10 View Post
I have a raw shotgun. So; is a shotgun drum a rotating cylinder?
Depends on the shotgun.

A cylinder has chambers that rotate around an axis so that each chamber can be discharged through a common barrel.

The Armsel/Striker is a shotgun that utilizes a cylinder.
The Pancor Jackhammer was a shotgun that utilized a detachable cylinder.
The Crye Precision Six12 is a shotgun that utilizes a detachable cylinder.
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 04-02-2019, 8:51 AM
SWalt's Avatar
SWalt SWalt is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Riverside
Posts: 6,332
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Thanks for the clarification. Hopefully the ruling stands the test of time.
__________________
^^^The above is just an opinion.

NRA Patron Member
CRPA 5 yr Member

"...which from their verbosity, their endless tautologies, their involutions of case within case, and parenthesis within parenthesis, and their multiplied efforts at certainty by saids and aforesaids, by ors and by ands, to make them more plain, do really render them more perplexed and incomprehensible, not only to common readers, but to lawyers themselves. " - Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 04-02-2019, 10:25 AM
Oc plumber Oc plumber is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: OC
Posts: 276
iTrader: 1 / 100%
Default

A friend has the vepr 12 , if he puts a fin on it can he use a 25drum?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 04-02-2019, 10:31 AM
leadstorm leadstorm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,190
iTrader: 21 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
What kind of rotating mag exists for a centerfire semi-auto? I don't think of a drum as a 'rotating mag'. IIRC, rotating cylinders are mentioned in the context of shotguns.
Ah, the ol' Mateba Autorevolver or the Webley-Fosbery (both recoil-operated semi-autos).





Thanks for the OP Librarian. Lotsa people buying AR mags like crazy right now.

My focus over the weekend was getting my various pistols outfitted with factory-cap mags.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 04-02-2019, 1:52 PM
ohsmily ohsmily is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: El Dorado Hills (Sac area)
Posts: 8,745
iTrader: 36 / 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oc plumber View Post
A friend has the vepr 12 , if he puts a fin on it can he use a 25drum?
No. Fail. Please read pc 30515 pertaining to shotguns.
__________________
Expert firearms attorney: https://www.rwslaw.com/team/adam-j-richards/

Check out https://www.firearmsunknown.com/. Support a good calgunner local to San Diego.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 04-02-2019, 2:50 PM
sl0re10 sl0re10 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7,242
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiet View Post
Depends on the shotgun.

A cylinder has chambers that rotate around an axis so that each chamber can be discharged through a common barrel.

The Armsel/Striker is a shotgun that utilizes a cylinder.
The Pancor Jackhammer was a shotgun that utilized a detachable cylinder.
The Crye Precision Six12 is a shotgun that utilizes a detachable cylinder.
thanks. No; just a drum magazine in my case.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 04-02-2019, 3:21 PM
command_liner command_liner is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Heart of the Valley, Oregon
Posts: 1,086
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Librarian View Post
CADOJ insists that the bullet-buttons remain on if you registered the gun with a BB. I don't understand why.

But as noted, a BB no longer qualifies to make a rifle 'fixed mag', so can't create an 'assault weapon' by using a 11+ mag in such a registered gun.

What kind of rotating mag exists for a centerfire semi-auto? I don't think of a drum as a 'rotating mag'. IIRC, rotating cylinders are mentioned in the context of shotguns.
Well, I designed one after this challenge came up the first time. Imagine a cross between a Hyvo chain and a full moon clip. Rotary bolt motion is available to advance the Hyvo. No limit on chain size. Not a belt, not a drum, not a clip, not a magazine, not links. Rework an AR-pattern lower so it can accept a variety of feeding mechanisms, one being the standard mag well. Another being the Hyvo.

It all works. This does not comprise a patent disclosure. All rights reserved.
__________________
What about the 19th? Can the Commerce Clause be used to make it illegal for voting women to buy shoes from another state?
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 04-02-2019, 5:31 PM
sl0re10 sl0re10 is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7,242
iTrader: 2 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oc plumber View Post
A friend has the vepr 12 , if he puts a fin on it can he use a 25drum?
Sounds like people are saying if it is a registered AW yes... I have not reread everything recently so I don't have an opinion / know personally.

but if it is not registered; you may want to check if it legal to own at all. I only registered mine because I couldn't see a configuration path to avoid registering it.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 04-02-2019, 9:47 PM
ohsmily ohsmily is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: El Dorado Hills (Sac area)
Posts: 8,745
iTrader: 36 / 97%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sl0re10 View Post
Sounds like people are saying if it is a registered AW yes... I have not reread everything recently so I don't have an opinion / know personally.

but if it is not registered; you may want to check if it legal to own at all. I only registered mine because I couldn't see a configuration path to avoid registering it.
If it is a RAW, it doesn't need a fin(grip) and you can use any high cap in the shotgun. If it is not a RAW, then a fin(grip) makes no difference and is a no go, drum mag or not.
__________________
Expert firearms attorney: https://www.rwslaw.com/team/adam-j-richards/

Check out https://www.firearmsunknown.com/. Support a good calgunner local to San Diego.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 04-02-2019, 11:03 PM
Quiet's Avatar
Quiet Quiet is online now
retired Goon
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: San Bernardino County
Posts: 29,996
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oc plumber View Post
A friend has the vepr 12 , if he puts a fin on it can he use a 25drum?
No. Fail. Please read pc 30515 pertaining to shotguns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohsmily View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sl0re10 View Post
Sounds like people are saying if it is a registered AW yes... I have not reread everything recently so I don't have an opinion / know personally.

but if it is not registered; you may want to check if it legal to own at all. I only registered mine because I couldn't see a configuration path to avoid registering it.
If it is a RAW, it doesn't need a fin(grip) and you can use any high cap in the shotgun. If it is not a RAW, then a fin(grip) makes no difference and is a no go, drum mag or not.
CA assault weapons laws for shotguns are similar but different than those for rifles and pistols.
What may be CA legal for rifles or pistols, may not be CA legal for shotguns.
Example... grip fins do nothing to change the legality of a shotgun.


Therefore... (only CA laws are being considered, not touching on Fed 922r requirements on the capacity limit on imported shotguns)

If the VEPR-12 is semi-auto and has detachable magazines, then it's an illegal assault weapon. [PC 30515(a)(7)]
^Not having a fixed magazine is a restricted feature on semi-auto shotguns, regardless of how the shotgun is configured.

If the VEPR-12 is semi-auto and was registered as an assault weapon, then it can legally use detachable magazines of any capacity.

If the VEPR-12 is semi-auto and has a fixed magazine, then there is no capacity limit for the fixed magazine.
^In order to be considered a "fixed magazine", the ammunition feeding device needs to be contained in the firearm and it can not be removed without disassembling the firearm's action or it is permanently attached in the firearm's magazine well.

If the VEPR-12 is manually operated, then it can legally use detachable magazines of any capacity.
__________________


"If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun." - Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001).

Last edited by Quiet; 04-02-2019 at 11:12 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 04-02-2019, 11:32 PM
EvoXRiley EvoXRiley is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 1,210
iTrader: 11 / 100%
Default

What about rimfire ? Standard cap magazines okay in them?
Semi auto and bolt action.
__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:36 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy