Suggestions for red dot on a Glock 19

[JimBeam99]

Got a G19. Just picked up an optic ready slide for it from Palmetto Armory.
Any suggestions for which red dot optic for it?

[gdw]

Mine has a Trijicon SRO. Love it.

[tradecraft]

KISS with a P2.

[rodralig]

Originally Posted by JimBeam99

Got a G19. Just picked up an optic ready slide for it from Palmetto Armory.
Any suggestions for which red dot optic for it?

It's all preference. What will work for me, may not work for you... In particular depending on your use case (carry, range, competition, defense, larping).

That said, there is the emitter color, the window size, the different types of reticles, how they are mounted, how batteries are replaced, etc.

I have several Glocks, and each one of them have a different optic.

• Trijicon SRO 5.0MOA
• Trijicon RMR 3.25MOA
• Holosun 508T 2MOA+32MOA
• Holosun 407CO 8.0MOA <--- this is what my G19 Gen 3 carry has - see YT below
• Holosun ACSS
• Swampfox Justice 3MOA

_

[BC9696]

Forget the RMR...particularly poor on a Glock. I like the DeltaPoint Pro 2.5 MOA BUT not for CCW. Most CCW engagements are very close and no optic is necessary. A swift, clean draw and accurate discharge (including from the hip training) within 7 yards is necessary. Cops have different needs so an optic on their weapon makes more sense. I have em on my backcountry carry Glocks where I am more likely to engage something at distance. I like the ease of battery changes, larger sight picture and less distortion when wet.

Two vids definitely worth your time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=UtFNmvOqdho

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW5jgm_6KJo

[heyasiankid]

Stay away from the rmr imo. I had 3 rmrs on 3 different glocks and variants(zev, and shadow systems) and took them all off. I had a particular problem with them when its just about noon and the emitter for them gets flooded by the sun and instead of a dot, I get a rectangle. Ive played with turning the brightness up and down and it didnt help. Also changing the battery on them kinda sucks cause you take off the optic.

I have a bunch of red dots on different handguns and I particularly like the DPO and ACRO.

Leupold DPO, trijicon SRO, steiner MPS, aimpoint ACRO, holosun EPS, 509, 508, 507/507k are prettty good.

The eotech EFLIX I havent tried yet but it looked great though I heard there was a few issues with it.

Its personal preference at the end of the day and depends what youre going to use this for. (Range ccw competition ect).

But BEWARE of the screws and over torque. Ive had ****ty screws break off and needed to extract the screws out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Vinnie Boombatz]

It's all about what you intend to do with the G19. I just picked up a G19 that I intend to use for CCW, so I sent it out to get cut for a Holosun 507X X2 with the ACSS reticle. Have the same optic on my Shield and love it. If it was going to be a range toy or a gun I use in classes I would have put something larger on it.

[joefrank64k]

Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz

It's all about what you intend to do with the G19. I just picked up a G19 that I intend to use for CCW, so I sent it out to get cut for a Holosun 507X X2 with the ACSS reticle. Have the same optic on my Shield and love it. If it was going to be a range toy or a gun I use in classes I would have put something larger on it.

+1 for the Holosun!! I have the green reticle.

Currently $321.89 shipped with Mil/LEO pricing: https://www.primaryarms.com/holosun-...vulcan-reticle

[rsrocket1]

I really wanted a Holosun with the ACSS reticle because I thought a tiny red dot would be hard to find if your draw isn't close to perfect. Actually, the HS507K X2 or any of the models with the combination 32 MOA circle and 2 MOA dot works best for me.

The big 32 MOA circle is very easy to pick up inside the optic and the 2 MOA center dot is good for precision shooting. 32 MOA is 3" at 10 yards so it's more than sufficient for SD use.

The HS507K X2 also has pseudo rear sights so it can be useful for point shooting even if the 20,000 hour battery is dead. You can also get a solar powered version that can use the solar cells as a backup in outdoor situations. I have red ones but some prefer green as being easier to pick up.

Be sure your eyesight is decent for a focus at infinity. Near sightedness will blur the dot/circle and astigmatism might prevent you from using a red dot at all.

[k1dude]

How experienced are you with a pistol red dot?

[rodralig]

Originally Posted by k1dude

How experienced are you with a pistol red dot?

Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz

It's all about what you intend to do with the G19.

These!

Originally Posted by BC9696

BUT not for CCW. Most CCW engagements are very close and no optic is necessary. A swift, clean draw and accurate discharge (including from the hip training) within 7 yards is necessary. Cops have different needs so an optic on their weapon makes more sense.

I like how you quote absolutes, "no optic is necessary."


True... While most CCW engagements are within 7-yards, well, I guess some would still prefer to be equipped for the possibility rather than the probability that the engagement will be outside of 7-yards. OR, a 7-yard engagement requiring the firing solution of 15-yards.

Case in point - "... started at 14 yards, ended at 23."


https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...d-tori-nonaka/




Also, I like how Gabe of Suarez Tactics sums it up when he rebuts Ken Hackathorn...




_

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Originally Posted by joefrank64k

+1 for the Holosun!! I have the green reticle.

Currently $321.89 shipped with Mil/LEO pricing: https://www.primaryarms.com/holosun-...vulcan-reticle

I get the MOS discount at Primary Arms and still have found Midwest Optics less expensive on many occasions.

[Vinnie Boombatz]

Originally Posted by rodralig

These!





I like how you quote absolutes, "no optic is necessary."


True... While most CCW engagements are within 7-yards, well, I guess some would still prefer to be equipped for the possibility rather than the probability that the engagement will be outside of 7-yards. OR, a 7-yard engagement requiring the firing solution of 15-yards.

Case in point - "... started at 14 yards, ended at 23."


https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...d-tori-nonaka/




Also, I like how Gabe of Suarez Tactics sums it up when he rebuts Ken Hackathorn...




_

I agree. There will always be those who think and deal in absolutes in threads like this and will find that one or few examples that they find and will use that to attempt to disprove the majority of examples that go against their claim and say, "See, you're wrong." Happens all the time.

One thing that is true, regardless of if you have a red dot or irons, it isn't going to make a darn bit of difference if you don't have training and have no clue how to run the firearm, and more importantly how to run the firearm under stress. Too many will emphasize the gear and ignore putting in the time and effort to train, thinking just because they have a really nice firearm.

[joefrank64k]

Originally Posted by Vinnie Boombatz

I get the MOS discount at Primary Arms and still have found Midwest Optics less expensive on many occasions.

Good to know?thanks for the lead!!

[M76]

Which cut? I put a swampfox kingslayer green circle dot on mine, it?s great.

[BC9696]

Absolutes? No. I am merely sharing the collective opinion of shooting experts regarding the use of optics on a sidearm. Universally they agree that for civilian EDC, an optic is "unnecessary"...which doesn't mean they are bad, just that you don't (or shouldn't) need it. Of course you can ignore the experts...make yourself happy. People do it every day. But you should first work on drawing, aiming and discharging two rounds on target in 2 seconds at 10-25 yards.

That said, my "field sidearms" (for backcountry use) are topped with Hawkins suppressor sights co-witnessed to the DeltaPoint Pro 2.5 MOA optic. This is the same set-up the U.S. Marshals Service subsequently adopted.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...cision-sights/

Beyond 25 yards the red dot is quite helpful and my groups are tighter with it (once I changed my grip and got used to it).
I run a KKM barrel cuz I discovered a crack in the Glock OEM barrel of my 10mm when the cleaning patch tore on it. Yikes! But then, I am shooting hardcast ammo (bear protection) through it sooooo...



One last piece of info...if you upgrade your OEM barrel to a KKM...it will shoot low under 10 yards. My new KKM barrel hit 3" low at only 5 yards! The manufacturer told me this is normal. It freaked me out at first.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

OP, since you have an optic ready slide odds are it already had a cut for a particular footprint. Get a duty grade optic, open or closed emitter, if it's for defensive use. Don't buy cheap hobby grade.

Originally Posted by BC9696

Absolutes? No. I am merely sharing the collective opinion of shooting experts regarding the use of optics on a sidearm. Universally they agree that for civilian EDC, an optic is "unnecessary"...which doesn't mean they are bad, just that you don't (or shouldn't) need it. Of course you can ignore the experts...make yourself happy. People do it every day. But you should first work on drawing, aiming and discharging two rounds on target in 2 seconds at 10-25 yards.

You're cherry-picking data. You believing the "experts" do not overwhelmingly support MRDS just tells me you don't venture outside of your own circles. I strongly encourage you to read Aaron Cowan's white paper on MRDS. You'll find data sets pointing towards all of the reasons MRDS works for a variety of people. This is the 3rd edition, but you'll get the point. More information on what the bad guy is doing, easier dealing with a single focal plane, etc. You know what makes it easier to draw and get accurate rounds quickly, especially at distance? MRDS.

[Zenderfall]

Optics and good shooting are mutually exclusive.

I've seen people place in top three with (different types of) irons. I've seen people place using optics. I've seen people rank at the very bottom with irons, and guess what? I've seen people at the very bottom with optics too. The important thing is to remember the limitations of all of the above. Electronics can fail, and yes not just the battery but the circuitry. I've seen it. Very rare but it happens. I've seen fiber optic tubes bounce out of the sights leaving an all black sight in front. I've seen set screws work loose and rise in the rear sight and completely block the front sight. Tru-Glo brand.

That being said, for the OP, read/compare/contrast all the top models, like Trijicon, Aimpoint, Holosun, Vortex, Burris, etc....but go look at them in store. There will be one you like more than the others but the only way to know for sure is to look at them in person. If you're set on using optics, go for it, but then train with it.

[eaglemike]

Originally Posted by Zenderfall

Optics and good shooting are mutually exclusive.

I've seen people place in top three with (different types of) irons. I've seen people place using optics. I've seen people rank at the very bottom with irons, and guess what? I've seen people at the very bottom with optics too. The important thing is to remember the limitations of all of the above. Electronics can fail, and yes not just the battery but the circuitry. I've seen it. Very rare but it happens. I've seen fiber optic tubes bounce out of the sights leaving an all black sight in front. I've seen set screws work loose and rise in the rear sight and completely block the front sight. Tru-Glo brand.

That being said, for the OP, read/compare/contrast all the top models, like Trijicon, Aimpoint, Holosun, Vortex, Burris, etc....but go look at them in store. There will be one you like more than the others but the only way to know for sure is to look at them in person. If you're set on using optics, go for it, but then train with it.

I think I understand what you are saying, but I don't think those 2 things are "mutually exclusive" as you say.
Agree someone can be bad or good with either irons or optics - maybe you mean skills are independent of the sight used?

[BC9696]

Zenderfall is 100% correct, they are mutually exclusive and anyone who has actually trained with both iron and optics knows this to be true. The basics of handgun shooting don't change based on the aiming option. A red dot is no benefit to someone who lacks proper training and running frequent drills. Plenty of people walking around with a fine weapon ill-prepared to actually use it in a time-pressure, life threatening situation....especially those up close & personal. Mentally you are either fully prepared or you are not. How your handgun is topped is a secondary and far less important matter. All those providing SD training agree on this, regardless what Doc PV thinks.

[Zenderfall]

Originally Posted by eaglemike

Agree someone can be bad or good with either irons or optics - maybe you mean skills are independent of the sight used?

That is correct-and also the same meaning as mutually exclusive.

Someone told me at the match “Optics can make good shooters better but they can make bad shooters, worse” and I’ve seen so much of that it’s no longer funny.

Many competitors in the middle to lower ranks see a (few) top scorers with dots and think that that optic will raise their scores, only to be disappointed the next time when it does not. As a matter of fact, some people even lower their scores by switching optics without any training.

Training programs and trigger time will bring out better results than an optic purchase.

[eaglemike]

Originally Posted by Zenderfall

That is correct-and also the same meaning as mutually exclusive.

Someone told me at the match ?Optics can make good shooters better but they can make bad shooters, worse? and I?ve seen so much of that it?s no longer funny.

Many competitors in the middle to lower ranks see a (few) top scorers with dots and think that that optic will raise their scores, only to be disappointed the next time when it does not. As a matter of fact, some people even lower their scores by switching optics without any training.

Training programs and trigger time will bring out better results than an optic purchase.

Mutually exclusive means one or the other, but not both. Each excludes the other = mutually exclusive.

From the dictionary:
"Examples of mutually exclusive in a Sentence
the two plans are mutually exclusive; implementing one will automatically rule out the other"

Addressing another post: Yes, I know all about training. I've seen a LOT of bad shooters that spent a LOT of money on equipment. I've also RO'd and run matches that had the best shooters in the world. Rob Leatham and Jerry Miculek, ok?

Iron sights, or optics - a great shooter will do well. As an example of something I said above, Rob came to the International Revolver Championship about 20 years ago for the first (and maybe only) time. He shot iron sights, and finished second overall to Jerry. Another very good shooter, Vic, had been second to Jerry for many years, also shooting open. Rob's skill was too great even using irons against an open gun, so he finished ahead of Vic (who ended up 3rd overall).

We are both saying the same thing (I think), but here is a quote of what was said above " Optics and good shooting are mutually exclusive."
It's my position that one can have optics and good shooting, as demonstrated by many skilled shooters. One can also have good shooting with iron sights.

[Zenderfall]

Got it Mike,

Wrong choice of words on my part then. How about “Optics & Good shooting are independent factors” then?

[rodralig]

Originally Posted by eaglemike

Mutually exclusive means one or the other, but not both. Each excludes the other = mutually exclusive.

How did we get from "recommendations for an RDS on a G19?" to "RDS is not necessary for CCW" to "RDS and performance are mnopxyz exclusive"...?

Belated Happy Thanksgiving guys!!!

_

[eaglemike]

Originally Posted by Zenderfall

Got it Mike,

Wrong choice of words on my part then. How about ?Optics & Good shooting are independent factors? then?

You bet. BTW, thanks for allowing us to have a nice discussion - sometimes things get heated and personal. I appreciate it!

Trying to be on topic
As far as which dot (if one is going to use one) I'd be looking for an optic with shake awake and long battery life, ability to change the battery without dismounting the sight. IMHO it would be super important to check the sight function often. Having a duplicate pistol, set up exactly the same, and practicing/training on a regular basis would be important. Supplementary back up night sights would be a requirement for me if used for defensive purposes.

The discussion about whether or not to use an optic would be a separate thing. That's a deep hole to go down.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[BC9696]

Agreed, co-witnessed irons are a must IMO and if the optic doesn't have a long batt life, ease of battery replacement is a HUGE plus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaIdlaQG-WA

[CSTactical]

I have tried the Aimpoint ACRO P1, both Holosun 509T Gen 1 and two then finally the Aimpoint ACRO P2 which sits on it now. I prefer the 509T form factor which is slightly more concealable but I could not get over the distortion (especially on the edges) and tiny bit of magnification. Outside of the size, I prefer the ACRO P2 everything for everything else (overall clarity, negligible tint, extremely crisp dot, feels bombproof), especially since my astigmatism probably amplifies any abnormalities.

If Aimpoint can make a slimmed down ACRO body while making a bigger window, I'd be first in line!

I'd like to try out the RMR HD and see how it works with my eyes.

This is what I'm carrying in the cooler months.

[Tommyw1952]

I use Holosun's on my pistols including my 19. It has a light and laser also to handle any night time visitors.

[bigboyshooter]

While I agree they may not be needed for most ccw situation, why not be prepared for as many as possible. I had my G26 milled for the MOS pattern and went with the Holosun SCS MOS which direct mounts with no plate. It?s frickin awesome. I have a couple other optics mounted on other guns but this quickly became my favorite. So much that my 19 is there now being milled and I?ll be dropping a couple more slides of on pick up. I actually feel good about the mos cut as it doesn?t limit me to one optic in case the next greatest thing comes out😜. Even Radian is making their plate for RMR and EPS for mos slides. Just another option to consider.

[Old Marine]

Originally Posted by rodralig

These!





I like how you quote absolutes, "no optic is necessary."


True... While most CCW engagements are within 7-yards, well, I guess some would still prefer to be equipped for the possibility rather than the probability that the engagement will be outside of 7-yards. OR, a 7-yard engagement requiring the firing solution of 15-yards.

Case in point - "... started at 14 yards, ended at 23."


https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...d-tori-nonaka/




Also, I like how Gabe of Suarez Tactics sums it up when he rebuts Ken Hackathorn...




_

When I read a statement like "most ccw encounters are at xxxx" my mind reads, some enciunters are at longer distances. I am not preparing for the probabilities, but rather the possibility.
While I can't cover every scenario, I can cover those that happen on a semi regular basis.

[sigstroker]

Originally Posted by rodralig

How did we get from "recommendations for an RDS on a G19?" to "RDS is not necessary for CCW" to "RDS and performance are mnopxyz exclusive"...?

Belated Happy Thanksgiving guys!!!

_

Calguns

[snacks]

I have an rmr on my cz, 1911, and g34. I like the 3.25 moa red. I do t notice much of the distortion that people experience. I find it robust for my use but I don’t ccw any of them.

I also have a 507c on a g17 and really like how it feels plus costs less than the trijicon. I also use a 507k on a 9mm 1911 I find it the perfect size for the slide not having to use a mounting plate. On a G19 I would consider a closed emitter like an acro p2 or Steiner mps. Not sure if those might be too big for carry

Best wishes with your search

[Peahi2]

I have had an RMR mounted on my G19 now for years and for case after case of ammo...no issues at all, and it complements the gun. Its mounted on an RMR slide. I also have an SRO mounted on a 1911. I also have various holosuns on other glocks and a 22 pistol. I have a closed emitter holosun on one of those pistols. I kinda like them all but if forced to pick a favorite, it would be the SRO for the bigger window. I wouldn't mind trying out the RMR HD for its bigger window and top loading battery feature.

The only hiccup I've had honestly was with the newest red dot, a holosun closed emitter 509T-x2 green dot. Damn thing is new last year and I pulled it out of the safe and it was dead as a doornail. So much for their highly acclaimed Solar Failsafe (top solar panel) and up to 50K hour battery life. It was a double fail...battery was dead and the solar thing didn't do JACK. Its supposed to work if the battery fails...well it didn't. Holosun just told me to change the battery. So, I give their fancy solar backup system an F.


So Holosun 509T-x2 green....FAILURE.

[static2126]

Have a g19 and holosun 509T combo at 75k rounds