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California 2nd Amend. Political Discussion & Activism Discuss gun rights activism and 2A related political topics here. All advice given is NOT legal counsel.

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  #1  
Old 11-17-2023, 7:42 AM
BobB35 BobB35 is offline
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Default How does this square with Bruen - Revoked CCW

Ca homeowner who defends himself has LTC revoked by LA Sherriff.

https://kste.iheart.com/content/2023...rom-intruders/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rm-permit.html


Seems like a good lawsuit to me that goes to the heart of may issue policies being abused post Bruen.

What say you?

Last edited by BobB35; 11-17-2023 at 7:46 AM.. Reason: Clarity
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2023, 7:48 AM
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If true, they are violating his 2nd amendment rights because he used his 1st amendment rights and using his 2nd amendment rights?
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Old 11-17-2023, 8:08 AM
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Lapd is just mad he pretty much called them out on national tv saying how slow their response was (article said 3 days after the shooting?) and how ineffective they were in policing the neighborhood (multiple break-ins and shady characters around neighborhood)

He hurt their ego and put egg on their face so they are retaliating by yanking his CCW.
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Old 11-17-2023, 9:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobB35 View Post
Ca homeowner who defends himself has LTC revoked by LA Sherriff.

https://kste.iheart.com/content/2023...rom-intruders/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...rm-permit.html


Seems like a good lawsuit to me that goes to the heart of may issue policies being abused post Bruen.

What say you?
There's no issue with Bruen. Bruen addressed discretionary standards for the issue of a permit. This matter here concerns the revocation of a permit.

The Bruen decision may provide some good argument for use in the new revocation case, but that gonna be a different case.
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Old 11-17-2023, 11:04 AM
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Now add to the list of reasons for revocation of permit: yelling at the cops (sarc).
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Old 11-17-2023, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
Lapd is just mad he pretty much called them out on national tv saying how slow their response was (article said 3 days after the shooting?) and how ineffective they were in policing the neighborhood (multiple break-ins and shady characters around neighborhood)

He hurt their ego and put egg on their face so they are retaliating by yanking his CCW.
I think you are probably right about this. As far as I know, LAPD and LACS has a bad non 2nd amendment friendly reputation anyway.
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  #7  
Old 11-17-2023, 11:21 AM
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This is terrible. I hope he files a lawsuit and NRA/CRPA will support him. We are all endangered if the state revokes our permits after lawfully protecting our loved ones. Additionally, I see that the article characterizes him as a "wealthy LA father". This is a values-laden expression which may be designed to cast shade. It does not matter how much money a citizen has, the 2nd Amendment enshrines a God-given right to all.
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Old 11-17-2023, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scratch705 View Post
Lapd is just mad he pretty much called them out on national tv saying how slow their response was (article said 3 days after the shooting?) and how ineffective they were in policing the neighborhood (multiple break-ins and shady characters around neighborhood)

He hurt their ego and put egg on their face so they are retaliating by yanking his CCW.
Pretty much this. They?re gonna claim his ?behavior? goes against their vague/and capricious definition of ?good moral character?? and in that case, I would suspect his legal council will subpoena the personnel files of both agencies? namely on misconduct of officers and deputies (involved in both on/off duty incidents) and see how many of those officers are still employed and carrying firearms.

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Old 11-17-2023, 11:43 AM
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No facts have come out over why he had ccw revoked if that even happened Might be suspended while investigation ensues.
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Old 11-17-2023, 1:06 PM
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Originally Posted by edgerly779 View Post
No facts have come out over why he had ccw revoked if that even happened Might be suspended while investigation ensues.
Dude? are you serious? The Fox News article quoted Ricci:

Ricci told Fox News Digital that the sheriff's office called him Thursday morning to inform him his concealed carry permit was "revoked," and he said it was due to him "yelling" at Los Angeles police officers when they visited his home to investigate the shooting three days after the incident. Ricci previously railed that the LAPD ? the department investigating the case ? carried out "sloppy police" work, including allegedly not picking up the casings scattered near his home as evidence.

Umm? pretty cut and dry.
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Old 11-17-2023, 1:26 PM
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Originally Posted by eho0925 View Post
Dude? are you serious? The Fox News article quoted Ricci:

Ricci told Fox News Digital that the sheriff's office called him Thursday morning to inform him his concealed carry permit was "revoked," and he said it was due to him "yelling" at Los Angeles police officers when they visited his home to investigate the shooting three days after the incident. Ricci previously railed that the LAPD ? the department investigating the case ? carried out "sloppy police" work, including allegedly not picking up the casings scattered near his home as evidence.

Umm? pretty cut and dry.
His version is cut and dried. That doesn't mean he?s correct. Doesnt mean hes wrong.

But this is only one side of the story. Curious that the ?revocation? appears verbal, i would be stunned if there isnt some writing memorializing the action.
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  #12  
Old 11-17-2023, 3:00 PM
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Use the concealed carry permit for its sole intended application of self-defense, and the government revokes the license.

Welcome to Democrat America.
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Old 11-17-2023, 4:03 PM
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Who cares what Ricci said. See what is official hopefully accurate version.is. It will come out he likely stepped on his tongue while interacting with investigators. Even baby D's do not like to be thwarted or disrespected. Do not air your views and issues in public forum like he did. When giving statements if it goes south take benefit of counsel and stfku
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Old 11-18-2023, 11:16 AM
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Here's a good thing. This thing is making statewide news big time.
Not just L.A. but all over the state and even local news stations.
And the headlines are not favorable to the cops.

Reading the comments from ordinary people, about 9:1 people are outraged, and I'm assuming most of these are not permit holders themselves.
Just people sick and tired of crime and the increasing inability of people to protect them selves without the state favoring criminals over ordinary people.

A few people have pointed out that maybe there were other circumstances not in the defenders favor. Well, true, but I'm giving Ricci the benefit of the doubt until we hear that he was really out of line.
We'll hear the cops side of things no doubt because of all the bad publicity.
Then, we can make up or minds.
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  #15  
Old 11-18-2023, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostHeaven View Post
Use the concealed carry permit for its sole intended application of self-defense, and the government revokes the license.

Welcome to Democrat America.
Even more ironic is that he doesn't even need a CCW to carry on his property. His driveway is enclosed and not visible from the street. Regardless, anybody has the right to defend themselves against great bodily injury/death.

This is on Fox news.
https://youtu.be/0PoAhsQWxrY?
FWIW, I think Colion would get a better reception to his message if he didn't get so emotional and raise his voice so much.

This was posted 7 years ago and still holds true today.
https://youtu.be/PTZ7moSaYnM?
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  #16  
Old 11-18-2023, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by XDJYo View Post
Even more ironic is that he doesn't even need a CCW to carry on his property. His driveway is enclosed and not visible from the street. Regardless, anybody has the right to defend themselves against great bodily injury/death.
What you have said is absolutely true. However, any IA can suspend or revoke a LTC if the holder violates the conditions for issuance regardless of if the gun use was in a publicly accessible space, or on private property under the control of the LTC holder.

I am not saying the LASD was correct in revoking Mr. Ricci's permit. At this juncture we know only that the phone call from LASD indicated his permit was revoked because he "yelled" at the responding officers.

That does not tell me a lot about what actually was said by both parties and the manner in which things were said. I am hopeful that the pressure put upon LASD will make them illuminate the whole picture.
-P
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Old 11-18-2023, 1:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDJYo View Post
Even more ironic is that he doesn't even need a CCW to carry on his property. His driveway is enclosed and not visible from the street. Regardless, anybody has the right to defend themselves against great bodily injury/death.
The defensive gun user's license to carry actually did end up saving him, because the armed robbers attempted to ambush him on the way home, meaning that he needed to have already possessed the loaded gun in public.
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  #18  
Old 11-18-2023, 1:38 PM
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BTW, did they ever catch the bad guys? So much time seems to be spent on the defender and not the perps.
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Old 11-18-2023, 2:06 PM
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The good news now is that he can carry any reg pistol and not just the ones on his old "permit". Just misdemeanor violation like coming into country illegally or doing drugs. Nobody really cares or prosecutes. Besides the guy was carrying on his 2 Million property on which he pays a fortune in taxes yearly. Due to this travesty it wil be obligatory for all to yell at LAPD all the time.
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Old 11-18-2023, 10:00 PM
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BTW, did they ever catch the bad guys? So much time seems to be spent on the defender and not the perps.
Who cares? Even if LAPD had detained the assailants, the California diversity equity inclusion "justice" system would have freed them under cashless bail with court dates set years in the future.
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Old 11-18-2023, 10:58 PM
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These criminals are non-adjudicated criminals.
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Old 11-19-2023, 7:54 AM
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This article hit Apple News, I read it on my iPhone this past week. Don't know all the facts - only what was said in the article. Based on the way I read it, it was written with a slight slant in support of the homeowner (good...!). I hope the guy gets vindicated and prevails.

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Old 11-19-2023, 8:12 AM
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He has the inalienable right to;
?Carry outside the home for self defense.?
You don?t require government permission to exercise ANY right.
Another reason they may have revoked his permit is, they asked for his handgun and he said it was in his safe and he would NOT turn it over to them.
Either way, LE has NO AUTHORITY, to eliminate an enumerates right.
If I were him I?d carry anyway.
The ONLY entity that can remove a right is the court, and a Judge.
I hope he sues them for $$$$.
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Old 11-19-2023, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Turbinator View Post
This article hit Apple News, I read it on my iPhone this past week. Don't know all the facts - only what was said in the article. Based on the way I read it, it was written with a slight slant in support of the homeowner (good...!). I hope the guy gets vindicated and prevails.

Turby
This incident appears so egregious on its face that even mainstream Americans who know little about firearms and gun control intuitively perceive the injustice meted out to the home defender. Frankly, LASD would have produced evidence by now justifying its actions, if any existed.
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Old 11-19-2023, 11:03 AM
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This even made Breibart news and another national news outlet.
I think the media attention puts LACS on the defensive as 'bad guys' (whether they actually are or not). I'm sure they want this to go away, but sooner or later the Dept is going to have to make a statement.

We'll see if it passes the smell test.
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Old 11-19-2023, 11:04 AM
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This even made Breibart news and another national news outlet.
I think the media attention puts LACS on the defensive as 'bad guys' (whether they actually are or not). I'm sure they want this to go away, but sooner or later the Dept is going to have to make a statement.

We'll see if it passes the smell test.
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Old 11-19-2023, 3:00 PM
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Breitbart leans right and has a pro-gun editorial position, so I do not find it surprising. Making it to the Washington Post is significant.
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Old 11-19-2023, 3:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XDJYo View Post
This is on Fox news.
https://youtu.be/0PoAhsQWxrY?si=folzsEo-Uf03pb15
FWIW, I think Colion would get a better reception to his message if he didn't get so emotional and raise his voice so much.
Its mainstream news, which is amongst other things just a shouting match for attention.

If you want something other than soundbite outrage, you have to avoid MSM. The same Colion on his own channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dk_RaQ4rPE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YggjBXIxFck
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Old 11-20-2023, 11:00 AM
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We will see if and when the law enforcement agency tells their side of the story. The longer the police wait, the worse everything looks.
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Old 11-20-2023, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostHeaven View Post
We will see if and when the law enforcement agency tells their side of the story. The longer the police wait, the worse everything looks.
LAPD has alr4eady felt the heat.
On the other thread on this subject, someone already posted their response as they 'did not issue him a permit and did not revoke his permit'.
It was LASD that issued the permit. So far no word from them.
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Old 11-20-2023, 12:19 PM
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Here is the statement from the LASD:

Quote:
"We recognize that this incident was extremely traumatic and startling for the Ricci family and we hope the individuals responsible for this crime are arrested and held accountable.

The Department of Justice (DOJ) establishes guidelines for CCW permits and the Sheriff's Department must follow the DOJ parameters in accordance with the law.

The CCW permit may be immediately reinstated as long as the permit holder has also followed all required CCW policies (i.e. proper notifications, use of properly documented weapon, etc.).

The DOJ has been notified and there are avenues for Mr. Ricci to re-apply for his permit. We have been in contact with the Ricci family and have been providing information to them about CCW protocols and guidelines in an effort to ensure their Second Amendment rights are protected.

The Sheriff's Department respects the rights of individuals to exercise their Second Amendment rights and continually processes over thousands of CCW permit applications and renewals every year. The Sheriff's Department CCW Unit works diligently to track, process, and manage individuals who possess or seek CCW permits in Los Angeles County."
-P
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Old 11-20-2023, 1:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Preston-CLB View Post
Here is the statement from the LASD
This statement is a 100% pure load of corporate-speak bullsh*t. The home defender is "free" to reapply and undergo an unconstitutionally onerous process to simply restore his right to bear arms, obviously treated as a privilege by the State of California, back to its state before the incident.
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Old 11-20-2023, 1:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Preston-CLB View Post
Here is the statement from the LASD:


-P
Ok. (tanks for posting this)

But the wording seems contradictory.
On the one hand, it says his permit may be immediately re-instated pending review of proper procedure's followed.
On the other hand, he may re-apply for his permit?
So which is it? Re-instatement, or re-apply?

Also, there is no quotation for the so called DOJ guidelines they are following, so how do we know they are being followed?
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Old 11-20-2023, 1:10 PM
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Originally Posted by AlmostHeaven View Post
This statement is a 100% pure load of corporate-speak bullsh*t. The home defender is "free" to reapply and undergo an unconstitutionally onerous process to simply restore his right to bear arms, obviously treated as a privilege by the State of California, back to its state before the incident.
I agree. I don't think this is going to quell the bad publicity. This smells to me.
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Old 11-20-2023, 1:17 PM
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Use the concealed carry permit for its sole intended application of self-defense, and the government revokes the license.

Welcome to Democrat America.
Yeah, you're not supposed to do that...
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Old 11-20-2023, 1:24 PM
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I think I figured it out.
His permit was issued by the LASD.
The LAPD investigated the scene.
That would strongly suggest that he no longer lives in unincorporated LA and his issuing agency should be the LAPD.
Sounds like he was issued before Bruen by LASD. When they have back issuance to the LAPD ha was no longer in their jurisdiction, therefore had to cancel the permit.
It?s a cheesy reason if correct.
If he was ensnared by a moving of the line, then LAPD should immediately issue him a permit through the LAPD.
And?
Had he not had a permit, wasn?t he legally entitled to defend himself and his family PN BIS PROPERTY? That would violate Heller.
He has the right to defend himself in the home/at his doorstep and on his gated private property.
This will only question the permit process and its validity.
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Old 11-20-2023, 1:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlmostHeaven View Post
This statement is a 100% pure load of corporate-speak bullsh*t. The home defender is "free" to reapply and undergo an unconstitutionally onerous process to simply restore his right to bear arms, obviously treated as a privilege by the State of California, back to its state before the incident.
^^^Exactly this.

They're hiding behind some load of absolute horse sh*t to try and make it seem like they're only following orders. Hmmm...where have I heard THAT before? I wonder how many times the LASD/LAPD had stepped in to revoke the permit of a CCW permit holder in the past?

I'm glad Vince Ricci is well-to-do and is using the media against the LAPD. Time for the 2A to go on the offensive.
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Old 11-20-2023, 5:13 PM
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I think I figured it out.
His permit was issued by the LASD.
The LAPD investigated the scene.
That would strongly suggest that he no longer lives in unincorporated LA and his issuing agency should be the LAPD.
Sounds like he was issued before Bruen by LASD. When they have back issuance to the LAPD ha was no longer in their jurisdiction, therefore had to cancel the permit.
It?s a cheesy reason if correct.
If he was ensnared by a moving of the line, then LAPD should immediately issue him a permit through the LAPD.
And?
Had he not had a permit, wasn?t he legally entitled to defend himself and his family PN BIS PROPERTY? That would violate Heller.
He has the right to defend himself in the home/at his doorstep and on his gated private property.
This will only question the permit process and its validity.
Nope - moving to a different place in the same county is not a reason to revoke the LASD-issued license; he'd have to move to Orange or something.

Moving to a different county is not a reason to revoke, either, but the license would expire 90 days after such a move.

PC 26210 - https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=26210.
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  #39  
Old 11-20-2023, 5:27 PM
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That's what you get when you walk down the path of asking government for permission to exercise your Constitutional rights
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Old 11-20-2023, 6:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Featureless View Post
That's what you get when you walk down the path of asking government for permission to exercise your Constitutional rights
No one on this forum voted for any of these policies. Unless you mean to suggest everyone should outright carry illegally, this statement has no relevance.
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