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  #1  
Old 09-18-2020, 7:31 PM
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Default AR pistol lowers

There are currently two AR lowers registered as semi auto pistols in the marketplace.

I previously had been interested in building up an AR pistol back in the day when they were legal with SSE1 and an 80% lower.

My questions are:

1) is it really as simple as transferring the lower and then be good to go?

2) what configuration would make it legal? It doesnít have a stock to make it fixed, is the only option to use a magazine lock in one of the current options? IE hellfighter tactical?

Thanks!


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  #2  
Old 09-18-2020, 7:35 PM
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Maglock. 10 rounds MAX. No VFG. LOP must not exceed 13.5 inches I believe. Braces are ok.
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  #3  
Old 09-18-2020, 7:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbit3 View Post
Maglock. 10 rounds MAX. No VFG. LOP must not exceed 13.5 inches I believe. Braces are ok.
I haven't yet heard of anything about a legal requirement for length of pull?
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  #4  
Old 09-18-2020, 7:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbit3 View Post
Maglock. 10 rounds MAX. No VFG. LOP must not exceed 13.5 inches I believe. Braces are ok.

Itís the damn maglock that seems to make any current AR a deal breaker for me. Thatís a bummer.


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  #5  
Old 09-18-2020, 7:57 PM
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See here

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.usc...al-limits/amp/
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  #6  
Old 09-18-2020, 8:33 PM
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Make sure it is transferred as semi-auto pistol lower.
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  #7  
Old 09-19-2020, 4:22 AM
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AR Maglock w/Kingpin works just fine..I did have to do a little fine tunning to get it to work really smooth to my liking.Don't let the Maglock thing keep you from getting what you want..Because like my mother used to say "Something will always come up"......
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  #8  
Old 09-19-2020, 6:31 AM
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Like the OP I am looking to build an AR pistol and keep it.
But can you later sell PPT the legally configured AR pistol
you assembled from the stripped lower?

Again, assuming one has originally acquired a stripped lower
correctly drosed as a semi-auto pistol lower which is originally
drosed as frame only. I wasnít sure if you have to sell it separated
or it can be sold as assembled which ďnot frame onlyĒ and drosed that way.

I see some in the marketplace where seller says they will separate the upper.
Is there a difference selling an assembled AR pistol from a stripped lower
versus one purchased years ago fully assembled?
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  #9  
Old 09-19-2020, 9:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowStorm View Post
There are currently two AR lowers registered as semi auto pistols in the marketplace.

I previously had been interested in building up an AR pistol back in the day when they were legal with SSE1 and an 80% lower.

My questions are:

1) is it really as simple as transferring the lower and then be good to go?

2) what configuration would make it legal?
It doesn’t have a stock to make it fixed, is the only option to use a magazine lock in one of the current options?
The stripped lower needs to be DROSed as a semi-auto or it would not be legal to assemble it as one afterwards.
This is important to make sure the FFL you use will do it that way.

The ONLY way to make a semi-auto AR type pistol legal today is by fixing the magazine into the action so that it can not be removed without disassembly of the action.
There is no "featureless" option like on rifles because the magazine well outside of the pistol grip IS a feature on a semi-auto centerfire pistol.

Another option is to make it NOT semi-auto.
Then you can have a detachable magazine.

Last edited by ar15barrels; 09-19-2020 at 9:19 AM..
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  #10  
Old 09-19-2020, 9:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyder View Post
I haven't yet heard of anything about a legal requirement for length of pull?
BATF has determined a pistol brace to BE a stock if the length of pull is 13.5" or longer.
This is problematic for many of the side folding stock adapters because they cause the length of pull to exceed 13.5".
If running a side-folding adapter, you need to limit the length of pull to stay under 13.5" or the BATF says you have an illegal SBR.
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  #11  
Old 09-19-2020, 9:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frasier19 View Post
Like the OP I am looking to build an AR pistol and keep it.
But can you later sell PPT the legally configured AR pistol
you assembled from the stripped lower?

Again, assuming one has originally acquired a stripped lower
correctly drosed as a semi-auto pistol lower which is originally
drosed as frame only. I wasn’t sure if you have to sell it separated
or it can be sold as assembled which “not frame only” and drosed that way.

I see some in the marketplace where seller says they will separate the upper.
Is there a difference selling an assembled AR pistol from a stripped lower
versus one purchased years ago fully assembled?
Some FFL's will not DROS a stripped reciever as a SEMI-AUTO because technically, a stripped receiver CAN NOT BE SEMI-AUTOMATIC.
The solution to use such an FFL for the private party transfer is to DROS the whole gun and then meet the seller afterwards and strip all the parts BACK OFF the lower.
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  #12  
Old 09-19-2020, 10:08 AM
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Guys how is an AR pistol to shoot indoors compared to an AR rifle?

Is the muzzle flash bigger and it is louder? Does it help to use 300blk or another cartridge instead of 5.56?
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  #13  
Old 09-19-2020, 12:00 PM
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^ generally, the shorter the barrel, the louder the boom. My 7.5" in 5.56 was a teeth rattler at the indoor range. I switched to 10.5" in .300BLK with a blast deflector and it's much more pleasant. Some people like the boom, YMMV.
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  #14  
Old 09-19-2020, 12:57 PM
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LOL, I can't imagine shooting one indoors. My 10.5 incher literally set off the truck alarms in the parking lot behind me. That was with a flash hider. With a brake it would be much worse.
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  #15  
Old 09-19-2020, 3:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
LOL, I can't imagine shooting one indoors. My 10.5 incher literally set off the truck alarms in the parking lot behind me. That was with a flash hider. With a brake it would be much worse.
Thanks for confirming.

I was interested in an AR pistol for a hot minute, since it would be a lot more convenient to use for HD than my rifle. But all the negatives discussed in this thread just really stack up.

If / when I move out of state, registering for sbr and suppressor will be at the top of my to-do list. Lol.
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  #16  
Old 09-19-2020, 11:54 PM
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DOJ advises up to have the original DROS from the seller that says pistol and semi auto and they advise us to take photos of the lower now and include it in the DROS paperwork to show the maglock or fixed mag is installed already.
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  #17  
Old 09-20-2020, 2:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naz View Post
Thanks for confirming.

I was interested in an AR pistol for a hot minute, since it would be a lot more convenient to use for HD than my rifle. But all the negatives discussed in this thread just really stack up.

If / when I move out of state, registering for sbr and suppressor will be at the top of my to-do list. Lol.
I was talking about a 5.56. If you can get it worked out, a 9mm AR pistol is still a viable HD gun. The worst thing about it would be having only 10 rounds in the gun.
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  #18  
Old 09-20-2020, 7:15 AM
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Iím building one with a Hogue Freedom Fighter Mag Lock, Iíve got some extra Juggernaut Hellfighter rear pins Iíll be using to meet the requirements. Iíd be interested in trying the Patriot Pin though as it might be better than the Juggernaut, if youíve ever screwed up pulling that rear pin to clear a jam itís no fun.
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  #19  
Old 09-20-2020, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
I was talking about a 5.56. If you can get it worked out, a 9mm AR pistol is still a viable HD gun. The worst thing about it would be having only 10 rounds in the gun.
the 10rd fixed mag is such a deal breaker for me.

I’d also rather build a complete 5.56 4-4.5lb rifle for the cost of the just the AR pistol lower

Last edited by naz; 09-20-2020 at 10:13 AM..
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  #20  
Old 09-20-2020, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
I was talking about a 5.56. If you can get it worked out, a 9mm AR pistol is still a viable HD gun. The worst thing about it would be having only 10 rounds in the gun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by naz View Post
the 10rd fixed mag is such a deal breaker for me.
Where does it say this is a req?
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  #21  
Old 09-20-2020, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyKz View Post
Where does it say this is a req?
Check out the handgun flowchart on these forums.

Detachable mag outside of the pistol grip is a pistol AW ďfeatureĒ so you have have to make the mag non detachable (or not make the ar pistol semi auto)
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  #22  
Old 09-20-2020, 11:30 AM
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Okay, so fixed mag with >10rds is gtg then.
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  #23  
Old 09-20-2020, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyKz View Post
Okay, so fixed mag with >10rds is gtg then.
Unfortunately no. Look at bottom left of the flow chart. Fix mag has to have 10 or less rounds for both pistol and rifle
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  #24  
Old 09-20-2020, 2:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naz View Post
the 10rd fixed mag is such a deal breaker for me.

Iíd also rather build a complete 5.56 4-4.5lb rifle for the cost of the just the AR pistol lower
Well, it's not good, but if something goes bump in the night and you grab your pistol to go check, are you taking extra mags too? If not, it's no different than a fixed mag AR.
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  #25  
Old 09-20-2020, 8:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigstroker View Post
Well, it's not good, but if something goes bump in the night and you grab your pistol to go check, are you taking extra mags too? If not, it's no different than a fixed mag AR.
I guess that’s true for those who didn’t participate in freedom week

A long slide Glock with 33rd magazine or featureless AR rifle with std cap magazine or drum would be more ideal than a mag locked 10rd AR pistol, IMHO

Last edited by naz; 09-20-2020 at 8:43 PM..
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  #26  
Old 09-20-2020, 9:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyKz View Post
Where does it say this is a req?
It's not possible to DROS a semi-auto AR pistol WITHOUT a fixed magazine because ANY semi-auto handgun with a magazine outside of the pistol grip is an illegal assault weapon.

It's not like rifles where you can build it featureless because the detatchable magazine outside the pistol grip is a FEATURE.
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  #27  
Old 09-20-2020, 9:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyKz View Post
Okay, so fixed mag with >10rds is gtg then.
A fixed magazine that holds more than 10 rounds makes it an assault weapon.
It's OK if the gun is a registered assault weapon.
It's NOT OK if the gun is NOT a registered assault weapon.
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  #28  
Old 09-21-2020, 12:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ar15barrels View Post
A fixed magazine that holds more than 10 rounds makes it an assault weapon.
It's OK if the gun is a registered assault weapon.
It's NOT OK if the gun is NOT a registered assault weapon.
Even if it is 9mm?
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  #29  
Old 09-21-2020, 5:27 AM
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So what happens if there’s a bump in the night and your weapon is processed as evidence and your freedom mag has no pre date stamp? Do you get them back with your weapon?
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Old 09-21-2020, 7:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCVlongstroke View Post
So what happens if thereís a bump in the night and your weapon is processed as evidence and your freedom mag has no pre date stamp? Do you get them back with your weapon?
Was freedom mag in an illegal assault weapon? Good luck getting either back.....

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  #31  
Old 09-21-2020, 8:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyKz View Post
Even if it is 9mm?
Caliber is not a legal factor.

In RIFLES, centerfire vs rimfire is a factor.
In HANDGUNS, centerfire vs rimfire makes no difference.

50BMG is a specifically banned CHAMBERING in rifles.
50BMG is legal in handguns and OTHER firearms.
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Old 09-21-2020, 3:15 PM
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Let's say someone has a legal semi-auto AR pistol in 9mm. If I am understanding correctly, >10rd mags are illegal in that configuration, is that correct?

What if that pistol is converted to a rifle, with the addition of a 16"+ barrel and an adjustable stock, just like a regular AR. Is that now/still legal?

If so, is it then legal to use >10rd mags in it?
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Old 09-21-2020, 3:34 PM
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rifle large cap ok pistol ar NO
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  #34  
Old 09-21-2020, 3:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo74 View Post
Was freedom mag in an illegal assault weapon? Good luck getting either back.....

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Semi auto handgun
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  #35  
Old 09-21-2020, 3:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCVlongstroke View Post
Semi auto handgun
Yes, but this thread is about an AR pistol.

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Old 09-21-2020, 4:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyKz View Post

What if that pistol is converted to a rifle, with the addition of a 16"+ barrel and an adjustable stock, just like a regular AR. Is that now/still legal?

If so, is it then legal to use >10rd mags in it?
Adjustable stock is a ďfeatureĒ, so itís an AW rifle if you donít have mag lock

Got to make it a featureless rifle time use >10rd mag
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  #37  
Old 09-21-2020, 4:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naz View Post
Adjustable stock is a ďfeatureĒ, so itís an AW rifle if you donít have mag lock

Got to make it a featureless rifle time use >10rd mag
Sorry, has a maglock.
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Old 09-21-2020, 4:43 PM
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hAS TO BE FIXED MAG. if maglock makes it fixed mag and you must disassemble to release mag. Then good to go.
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  #39  
Old 09-21-2020, 5:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyKz View Post
Let's say someone has a legal semi-auto AR pistol in 9mm. If I am understanding correctly, >10rd mags are illegal in that configuration, is that correct?

What if that pistol is converted to a rifle, with the addition of a 16"+ barrel and an adjustable stock, just like a regular AR. Is that now/still legal?

If so, is it then legal to use >10rd mags in it?
If the pistol is a BBRAW, yes!

If the pistol-converted-to-rifle is a BBRAW, yes!

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Old 09-21-2020, 5:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyKz View Post
Sorry, has a maglock.
What kind of maglock? Pre 2017, or post 2016?

Registered in 2017?


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