Cal Regs

[amurphy]

Thank you! Will fill it all out today and send it in. Hopefully this won't be to hard on my wallet. It already growls at me

[Mark49]

I’m a 03 licensee have been for 15 years, welcome to collectors license.
Having a 03 license in California rather then lets say Texas is your restricted to purchase AWB, guns with grenade launchers and 03 handguns. Here’s the kicker, an 03 license along with a COE certificate is you can purchase more then one 03 handgun from gun shows outside California, once you arrive in California ya’ll need to pay $15.00 and you’re set to go.
I attend the Las Vegas gun show and walked out with 03 qualified handguns without a hitch.
Also defined C&R longguns like the SKS 59/66 even though Calif knows they are not 50+ years old, rifles like these without printed dates are a grey area but appear to be qualified rifles for C&R sales in California (Without grenade launcher)
Just a footnote, most sellers outside California don’t care about our 03 handgun restriction, most of my friends buy them on line without a problem, your call on that one.

If YOU are physically INSIDE California and buying an 03 handgun, it doesn’t have go through a 01 FFL dealer. 10 day waiting period doesn’t apply as long as you have BOTH a C&R license and a COE, you can also buy more then one 03 handgun.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Originally Posted by Mark49

I’m a 03 licensee have been for 15 years, welcome to collectors license.
Having a 03 license in California rather then lets say Texas is AWB, guns with grenade launcher and 03 handguns. Here’s the kicker, an 03 license along with a COE certificate is you can purchase more then one 03 handgun from gun shows outside California, once you arrive in California ya’ll need to pay $15.00 and you’re set to go.
I attend the Las Vegas gun show and walked out with 03 qualified handguns without a hitch.
Also defined C&R longguns like the SKS 59/66 even though Calif knows they are not 50+ years old, rifles like these without printed dates are a grey area but appear to be qualified rifles for C&R sales in California (Without grenade launcher)
Just a footnote, most sellers outside California don’t care about our 03 handgun restriction, most of my friends buy them on line without a problem, your call on that one.

If YOU are physically INSIDE California and buying an 03 handgun, it doesn’t have go through a 01 FFL dealer. 10 day waiting period doesn’t apply as long as you have BOTH a C&R license and a COE, you can also buy more then one 03 handgun.

I think this post might be the winner of the Most Wrong Information In A Post award. With the punctuation it's kind of hard to tell though. With all of the commas and periods in the right places it might only be the second most wrong post.

[Mark49]

Originally Posted by Amendment II

I think this post might be the winner of the Most Wrong Information In A Post award. With the punctuation it's kind of hard to tell though. With all of the commas and periods in the right places it might only be the second most wrong post.

100% correct, not sure what you're drinking tonight, but when you sober up do some research.... Not a flame "just need to get the facts"

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Originally Posted by Mark49

100% correct, not sure what you're drinking tonight, but when you sober up do some research.... Not a flame "just need to get the facts"

Oh jeeze, I just spit Wild Turkey 101 all over my keyboard!

Here’s the kicker, an 03 license along with a COE certificate is you can purchase more then one 03 handgun from gun shows outside California

You do not need a COE to purchase C&R handguns while you are out of state. The COE is only needed when you purchase from a Dealer inside California. It's not even really needed, but having a C&R FFL and a COE allows you to skip the 10 day wait on C&R firearm purchased at a Dealer in California. It also allows you to skip the 1 handgun per 30 days restriction on C&R and modern handguns purchased at a Dealer in California.

once you arrive in California ya’ll need to pay $15.00 and you’re set to go.

The C&R Handgun Report fee is $19 per handgun.

If YOU are physically INSIDE California and buying an 03 handgun, it doesn’t have go through a 01 FFL dealer.

Yes it does. C&R handguns purchased while inside California must go through a California 01 FFL Dealer.

[jmlivingston]

Originally Posted by Mark49

Here’s the kicker, an 03 license along with a COE certificate is you can purchase more then one 03 handgun from gun shows outside California, once you arrive in California ya’ll need to pay $15.00 and you’re set to go.

The COE is a California state thing, it has ZERO use outside of our state. All you need to purchase C&R handguns (when you are out of state to take physical possession of them) is your C&R license. Within 5 days of returning to the state you have to fill out this form and submit it along with $19 per handgun.

Originally Posted by Mark49

I attend the Las Vegas gun show and walked out with 03 qualified handguns without a hitch.

Correct, but your COE had nothing to do with this.

Originally Posted by Mark49

Also defined C&R longguns like the SKS 59/66 even though Calif knows they are not 50+ years old, rifles like these without printed dates are a grey area but appear to be qualified rifles for C&R sales in California (Without grenade launcher)

There's nothing grey about this. The rifle's not 50 years old so it has to go through an 01FFL if it's within the state. If you're taking physical posession outside of the state, then it doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Mark49

Just a footnote, most sellers outside California don’t care about our 03 handgun restriction, most of my friends buy them on line without a problem, your call on that one.

That does not make it legal however, and suggesting/advocating such illegal activity will get you removed from the forum.

Originally Posted by Mark49

If YOU are physically INSIDE California and buying an 03 handgun, it doesn’t have go through a 01 FFL dealer.

Wrong, wrong, wrong!!!!! All handgun sales in CA must go through a dealer.

You seriously need to spend some time reviewing the applicable firearms law. Especially the 12070 stuff, it's available right here.

John

[bugman]

I just want to clarify with the experts here. Most I read in this thread is either buying out of state or private party, but I might have missed what I was looking for. If I buy a C&R rifle (lets say a Mosin Nagant) from a local store/FFL, I take it that I still need to pay DROS and wait 10 days. I have C&R license but i dont have a COE.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Originally Posted by bugman

...If I buy a C&R rifle (lets say a Mosin Nagant) from a local store/FFL, I take it that I still need to pay DROS and wait 10 days. I have C&R license but i dont have a COE.

Yes, you are correct.

If you had the COE as well then you could skip the 10 day waiting period, but you'd still have to pay the DROS.

[Theseus]

So, this information has been helpful, but what I am really wondering is if there are any special things I need to do to make sure that I "comply with the requirements of State and local laws applicable to the conduct of business"?

I am not really seeking to be in business, so as an individual do I need to be?

[atavuss]

can someone post a link at the beginning of this thread (mods?) for the C&R and COE DOJ forms please?

[antarius]

Question:

If it's legal for Joe Citizen (with no C&R license) to sell me (also a citizen with no C&R license) a 50+ year old rifle, cash and carry, no dealer required -- how come Big-5 sells me a 60 year old rifle and makes me wait 10 days to pick it up?

[hoffmang]

Originally Posted by antarius

Question:

If it's legal for Joe Citizen (with no C&R license) to sell me (also a citizen with no C&R license) a 50+ year old rifle, cash and carry, no dealer required -- how come Big-5 sells me a 60 year old rifle and makes me wait 10 days to pick it up?

Non licensees who both live in California and who aren't prohibited can sell 50+ year old long guns to each other with nothing more than a handshake. Licensees like Big-5 are required to go through the full process regardless of the nature of the firearm unless the buyer is a C&R licensee with COE.

-Gene

[antarius]

Originally Posted by hoffmang

Non licensees who both live in California and who aren't prohibited can sell 50+ year old long guns to each other with nothing more than a handshake. Licensees like Big-5 are required to go through the full process regardless of the nature of the firearm unless the buyer is a C&R licensee with COE.

-Gene

Gene,

Thank you. After 6 pages of legal mumbo jumbo I was getting confused by my own name, let alone by firearms laws in California.

[mievil]

I think what make this much, much more clear for everyone involved would be an overall statement such as the following:

C&R license - within CA - rifle = X
C&R license - outside CA - rifle = X
C&R license - within CA - handgun = X
C&R license - outside CA - handgun = X

C&R license and COE - within CA - rifle = X
C&R license and COE - outside CA - rifle = X
C&R license and COE - within CA - handgun = X
C&R license and COE - outside CA - handgun = X

X being whether it requires a 10 day wait, transfer to an 01 FFL, payment of the $19 and filling out the handgun form, purchasing online or mail order, purchasing in store, etc.

I for one am only interested in purchasing for the collection reasons, not particularly interested in sale of my collection, and possible bypass of any 10 day wait rules, or multiple handgun purchase rules (either modern or C&R).

Seems like there is so much back and forth [forever] in this thread that a clearly defined example such as the above would be ideal for anyone just getting into the C&R licensing.

Though I'm not sure if there could be a definitive statement such as that.

[quiet-wyatt]

OK - I'm new here and I'll take a stab at this...
And I'm assuming the rifle and handgun references below are C&R rifles and handguns...
And I think it needs to be broken down more if I'm buying from a private party or an FFL Dealer (Type 01)...

OK, everybody - Tear this apart until I get it right!

Buying from a 01 Dealer:
C&R license - within CA - rifle = 01 Dealer DROS – 10-day wait
C&R license - within CA - handgun = 01 Dealer DROS – 10-day wait – Must have HSC
C&R license and COE - within CA - rifle = 01 Dealer DROS – No 10-day wait
C&R license and COE - within CA - handgun = 01 Dealer DROS – No 10-day wait/No 1 handgun per 30 day limit

Buying from a Private Party in CA:
C&R license - within CA - rifle = Cash and carry
C&R license - within CA - handgun = 01 Dealer DROS – 10-day wait – Must have HSC
C&R license and COE - within CA - rifle = Cash and carry
C&R license and COE - within CA - handgun = 01 Dealer DROS – No 10-day wait/No 1 handgun per 30 day limit

Buying Outside CA:
C&R license - physically outside CA - rifle = Cash and carry - no CA paperwork
C&R license - physically outside CA - handgun = Cash and carry – Must submit DOJ paperwork and $19 fee
C&R license - physically inside CA - rifle = Rifle shipped to your door
C&R license - physically inside CA - handgun = 01 Dealer DROS – 10-day wait – Must have HSC
C&R license and COE - physically outside CA - rifle = COE irrelevant outside CA – See above
C&R license and COE - physically outside CA - handgun = COE irrelevant outside CA – See above
C&R license and COE - physically inside CA - rifle = Rifle shipped to your door
C&R license and COE - physically inside CA - handgun = 01 Dealer DROS – No 10-day wait/No 1 handgun per 30 day limit

[Turbinator]

Guys, I thought having a C&R FFL exempts you from a 10 day wait on qualified long guns within CA, when purchasing from another dealer?

Turby

[jmlivingston]

Originally Posted by Turbinator

Guys, I thought having a C&R FFL exempts you from a 10 day wait on qualified long guns within CA, when purchasing from another dealer?

Turby

Nope!

[hoffmang]

Originally Posted by Turbinator

Guys, I thought having a C&R FFL exempts you from a 10 day wait on qualified long guns within CA, when purchasing from another dealer?

Turby

A C&R and COE will allow you to skip the 10 day wait on a C&R firearm of any type.

-Gene

[Turbinator]

Thanks guys, found this link with the right info:

http://64.82.96.51/cal-ffl.htm

Turby

[timdps]

C&R license and COE - within CA - handgun = 01 Dealer DROS – No 10-day wait/No 1 handgun per 30 day limit/exempt (X13) from HSC requirement

Tim

Originally Posted by quiet-wyatt

OK - I'm new here and I'll take a stab at this...
And I'm assuming the rifle and handgun references below are C&R rifles and handguns...
And I think it needs to be broken down more if I'm buying from a private party or an FFL Dealer (Type 01)...

OK, everybody - Tear this apart until I get it right!

Buying from a 01 Dealer:
C&R license - within CA - rifle = 01 Dealer DROS – 10-day wait
C&R license - within CA - handgun = 01 Dealer DROS – 10-day wait – Must have HSC
C&R license and COE - within CA - rifle = 01 Dealer DROS – No 10-day wait
C&R license and COE - within CA - handgun = 01 Dealer DROS – No 10-day wait/No 1 handgun per 30 day limit/exempt (X13) from HSC requirement

Buying from a Private Party in CA:
C&R license - within CA - rifle = Cash and carry
C&R license - within CA - handgun = 01 Dealer DROS – 10-day wait – Must have HSC
C&R license and COE - within CA - rifle = Cash and carry
C&R license and COE - within CA - handgun = 01 Dealer DROS – No 10-day wait/No 1 handgun per 30 day limit

Buying Outside CA:
C&R license - physically outside CA - rifle = Cash and carry - no CA paperwork
C&R license - physically outside CA - handgun = Cash and carry – Must submit DOJ paperwork and $19 fee
C&R license - physically inside CA - rifle = Rifle shipped to your door
C&R license - physically inside CA - handgun = 01 Dealer DROS – 10-day wait – Must have HSC
C&R license and COE - physically outside CA - rifle = COE irrelevant outside CA – See above
C&R license and COE - physically outside CA - handgun = COE irrelevant outside CA – See above
C&R license and COE - physically inside CA - rifle = Rifle shipped to your door
C&R license and COE - physically inside CA - handgun = 01 Dealer DROS – No 10-day wait/No 1 handgun per 30 day limit

[CHRIS MARTIN]

OK guys, I haven't seen this come up except indirectly. See if you can confirm/deny what I think I understand. I am a C&R license holder WITHOUT a COE. If I buy a 50 year old C&R hundgun from an OUT OF STATE private party OR from an OUT OF STATE 01 FFL, the transaction must go thru a CA 01 FFL. That seems clear...what is unclear is whether an out of state DEALER must be registered with the CA DOJ. I am assuming that I tell EITHER the out of state FFL OR the out of state private party to simply ship the gun to my CA 01 FFL. Is that correct???

[hoffmang]

Originally Posted by CHRIS MARTIN

OK guys, I haven't seen this come up except indirectly. See if you can confirm/deny what I think I understand. I am a C&R license holder WITHOUT a COE. If I buy a 50 year old C&R hundgun from an OUT OF STATE private party OR from an OUT OF STATE 01 FFL, the transaction must go thru a CA 01 FFL. That seems clear...what is unclear is whether an out of state DEALER must be registered with the CA DOJ. I am assuming that I tell EITHER the out of state FFL OR the out of state private party to simply ship the gun to my CA 01 FFL. Is that correct???

Out of state dealer would have to use the CFLC system to send the C&R handgun to an 01 FFL.

-Gene

[rjk]

I'm an FFL03 / CA COE holder. I made my first out of state C&R handgun purchase at the PHX Gun Show (BTW, a great show) and will submit the required CA DOJ paperwork (FD 4100A) and $19 fee per gun. Do I receive back something from the DOJ as a result?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Originally Posted by rjk

...Do I receive back something from the DOJ as a result?

Yes, you'll receive a letter from CalDOJ confirming the registration. It can take from two weeks to six months though. They take their time about it.

[rjk]

Thnks, Mssr. Eleganté. Any insight into why the FD 4100A form has mutually exclusive "Acquired From" check boxes for 1) Firearms Dealer; 2) Private Party; 3) Gun Show; 4) Family Member; and 5) Other? What is confusing is that you can only check one box. I did buy the C&R pistol at the PHX Gun Show, but also from an FFL01 Firearms Dealer, but it won't let me check both. Any insight?

[Mayhem]

Silly question Does a CnR FFL allow you to purchase non CnR firearms (Modern) while out of state. and IF so does the "Safe handgun" list apply in state or out of state to persons with a CnR licence?

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Originally Posted by Mayhem

Silly question Does a CnR FFL allow you to purchase non CnR firearms (Modern) while out of state. and IF so does the "Safe handgun" list apply in state or out of state to persons with a CnR licence?

A C&R FFL does not allow you to purchase any non-C&R guns while out of state.

[rjk]

Here is a follow up to the CA C&R Handgun Report (FD 4100A) question on CA DOJ current turn around time. I submitted the FD 4100A for three C&R handguns on 4/26 for I bought in Phoenix and received the three letters yesterday. It took a month, with the state cashing the check about half way in the 30 day period.

[calidefector]

Ok, I've read through this thread, and I don't see an answer to what I'm after. Anyway, here we go...

I had it in my mind that there was a limit to the number of C&R handguns that could be "imported" into CA by an FFL 03 in a 30 day period (specifically, I was thinking it was one.) I picked one up last time I was in Nevada, and sent my registration in.

Then I got to thinking, why would there be more than one spot on the form if you were limited to one? So I did some digging. Nothing in this thread on a monthly limit, nothing in the doc I found on CalGunLaws (http://www.calgunlaws.com/index.php/...-firearms.html), and so on.

BTW, here is the relevant text from the above link:

VI. NOTICE REQUIRED FOR IMPORTATION OF"CURIO OR RELIC" HANDGUNS BY LICENSED COLLECTORS

Penal Code section 12072(f)(3) requires that licensed collectors importing handguns that are"curios or relics" into California notify the DOJ within five days of importing the firearm into the state:

Where a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, acquires a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, outside of this state, takes actual possession of that firearm outside of this state pursuant to the provisions of subsection (j) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code, as amended by Public Law 104-208, and transports that firearm into this state, within five days of that licensed collector transporting that firearm into this state, he or she shall report to the department in a format prescribed by the department his or her acquisition of that firearm."

So, is there any limit? I picked up a single Colt as opposed to matching set of Colts because I thought I was limited to one. I'm starting to think I would have been able to legally get the set, and had imposed a false limitation upon myself.

Thanks in advance!

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Originally Posted by OrovilleTim

I had it in my mind that there was a limit to the number of C&R handguns that could be "imported" into CA by an FFL 03 in a 30 day period...

...So, is there any limit?

There is no limit at all. Licensed Collectors can buy all the handguns they want while out of state. You just have to make more copies of the Form FD410A if all of your acquisitions don't fit on one form.

[bobvonb]

I just read thru all 8 pages of the thread. Very interesting. I love the chart, that really helps. I am C&R licensed. I have purchased 2 C&R eligible long guns from dealers in California (one Big 5 and one local gun shop) and both did ALL the California stuff including the wait, which was OK with me. I don't think the C&R license helps because its express purpose is to allow out of state C&R acquisitions. I have acquired other C&R long guns from private parties outside Cal and I just FIRST sent them a copy of my C&R, paid them their either dollars or in kind, and received the guns at my door. ALL transactions were logged, even the dealer bought guns, just to be on the safe side. That means for the private parties outside California I either got a copy of their FFL or DL number for logging purposes.

I traded, not sold, one of the locally obtained C&R long guns but only shipped after receiving a copy of a local FFL 01 to ship to because they had no C&R. They claimed, and maybe rightly so, that their state allowed direct shipment to their door, but I prefer to err on the safe side and will only ship to FFL.

I'm trying my best to do everything right here, but it is difficult at times. I'm not even ready to think about handguns!

I do have the opportunity to borrow, from my brother-in-law in Texas, a C&R long gun for the upcoming deer season. My interpretation is that I can acquire this, direct ship to my door, under my C&R license. Cal law specifically excepts loans of this type from reporting. When I send it back however, I'm not sure if it needs to go thru a Texas FFL or not. I'll have to research Texas law. For Cal I'm simply returning a loan and I don't think that's a problem.

However, this is the first I've heard of COE. There is really no explanation on what it is, who is eligible, and how one would apply. Can someone enlighten me please.

And correct me if I have wrong ideas please.

[RugerNo1]

Originally Posted by bobvonb

However, this is the first I've heard of COE. There is really no explanation on what it is, who is eligible, and how one would apply. Can someone enlighten me please.

This. I'm in the process of getting my 03 FFL and just learned about the COE.

[Dangerpin]

I'd really like to know the answer to this, it isn't even in the Acronym thread here on Calguns, what does COE stand for and how do I go about getting one?

[jmlivingston]

It stands for Certificate of Eligibility, it's issued by the Ca DOJ. The form for it is here: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/coeapp.pdf

[Dangerpin]

Thank you very kindly!

[bobvonb]

well, here's what I know, and don't know. The COE is required for people who work in gun stores, at least. It requires fingerprinting and costs a bit of money. I have all the forms but have not yet proceeded along this path because I'm not sure I need to. I have my C&R license and have been advised by one other person who has C&R that I need the COE too. I'm not sure I believe that, but I'd like some more information, authoritive information.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Originally Posted by bobvonb

I have my C&R license and have been advised by one other person who has C&R that I need the COE too. I'm not sure I believe that, but I'd like some more information, authoritive information.

It depends on how and where you want to acquire C&R firearms.

If you want to skip the 10 day waiting period when buying C&R firearms through a California Licensed Dealer, then you need to have a COE in addition to your C&R FFL.

If you want to avoid the 1 handgun per 30 days restriction when buying both modern and C&R handguns from a California Licensed Dealer, then you need to have a COE in addition to your C&R FFL.

Those are the only two instances listed in the California Penal Code where a C&R FFL needs to have a COE.

[bobvonb]

ok, thanks! good information. as I suspected my 'helpful' friend was wrong. He said the C&R was invalid without a COE in CA.

[Metazorro]

Sorry if I am missing a small point, but I have an 03 FFL, and am out of State. I sold a long arm that is on the ATF list to a California Resident, who also has on 03. Is there any problem with sending him the weapon?

best

richard

[jmlivingston]

No problem if the long arm is over 50 years old. If it's not 50yo then it needs to go to an 01FFL.