Have an Old Winchester?

[TRAP55]

Originally Posted by Clipity

Great advice! I wish I had been older and paid more attention to my Grampees stories. My Mother & Brother have some stories for some of the guns he owned and my Father did a bit of hunting with him before he quit hunting. One gun he owned was a gift from an Uncle in Missouri that had been used during the Civil War .

Clip, I have a 1874 Sharps Business rifle that was given to me by a friend for restoring a closet full of rifles he had. It was broke, and I got it in a coffee can full of parts. Took about 8 years to restore it.
Thankfully he remembered the story that went with it when his dad gave it to him.
His dad was best buddy to a man named Bill Grinnell, a retired Canadian Mountie. During his colorful career, he was also Teddy Roosevelt's hunting guide. TR gave him the rifle from his own collection of firearms.
I ran into a guy at a Pomona gunshow that had written a book on TR's guns. After flipping through the pics of his guns, I asked if TR owned a Sharps, and he pulled out an old picture of TR and Bill standing over a dead lion, and Bill holding the 1874 Sharps Business Rifle.
I could see he was also wearing an old Colt revolver on his belt. When I got home, I went over to see Gary and tell him about it. He tells me he thinks he has that Colt in a trunk his dad had packed away.
We go digging and drag out a 1878 Colt double action that looked like it had been dipped in molasses. It was about 1/8th inch thick coating of varnish! Took it home, pulled the grips, and dropped it in a can of carb cleaner. When I got it all cleaned up, it was in like mint condition, chambered in .44 Russian. Serial number was 778, 1st year of production. Under that was another serial number... stamped alongside RCMP.
Never could talk him out of that one.

[l337viton]

Hi TRAP55!

I have a Winchester model 1895 that I inherited from my grandfather. It was in rough shape but I just found a serial number on it 271XX.

I found a website that says this serial has a manufacturing date of 1900. Wondering you could confirm or correct that and if you can find any other details.

Thanks in advance

[TRAP55]

It was indeed made mid 1900, with 5497 made that year.

[eightmd]

Thanks, I put in the full serial numbers for the ones you could not pin down. Was wondering if you could get them any closer.


M1 Carbine - 1086316 Made Sept 1942 - Feb 1944, I have no other info

95 carbine Lever action 30-40 Kraig - 425113 So few made the last 3 yrs of production, I need the whole serial on that one! 1931-33

30-30 Model 94 - 2834374 1963 ended about serial number 2,600,300, SN 3,000,000 was assembled in 1970

[TRAP55]

Originally Posted by eightmd

Thanks, I put in the full serial numbers for the ones you could not pin down. Was wondering if you could get them any closer.

M1 Carbine - 1086316 Made Sept 1942 - Feb 1944, I have no other info
M1 Carbine manufactures were issued serial number blocks, and those blocks were used in specific years. That is all I have for yours. Someone did research all these and put the DOM's in a book, maybe one of the M1 Carbine guys here can help on this one.

95 carbine Lever action 30-40 Kraig - 425113 So few made the last 3 yrs of production, I need the whole serial on that one! 1931-33
Made 1931, with 861 made that year. 1932 had 302, and the last year made in 1933, only saw 56 made.

30-30 Model 94 - 2834374 1963 ended about serial number 2,600,300, SN 3,000,000 was assembled in 1970
The data I have here is from the Pre-1964 Polishing room records, I'll ask Bert if he can date that one for you.

[eightmd]

Originally Posted by TRAP55

M1 Carbine - 1086316 Made Sept 1942 - Feb 1944, I have no other info
M1 Carbine manufactures were issued serial number blocks, and those blocks were used in specific years. That is all I have for yours. Someone did research all these and put the DOM's in a book, maybe one of the M1 Carbine guys here can help on this one.

95 carbine Lever action 30-40 Kraig - 425113 So few made the last 3 yrs of production, I need the whole serial on that one! 1931-33
Made 1931, with 861 made that year. 1932 had 302, and the last year made in 1933, only saw 56 made.

30-30 Model 94 - 2834374 1963 ended about serial number 2,600,300, SN 3,000,000 was assembled in 1970
The data I have here is from the Pre-1964 Polishing room records, I'll ask Bert if he can date that one for you.

Thanks a lot for the information. I have a question for you. I've been thinking about selling some of my collection, but I've never sold any vintage pieces before. They were handed down to me from my father. Do you have any suggestions on how I can get top dollar for a vintage gun? I know there are appraisers, and books that give the values, but I don't know how accurate the books are, given the economic changes. I assume the way to get the best price is to sell to some individual.

[TRAP55]

eightmd, see post #120 in this thread, same offer stands for any calgunners. Bert will appraise a Winchester from email pics, but he hates to do it, he would rather have hands on. I tell him he's getting too old and can't see the details in pics.
He knows all the collectors at the show, knows who is looking for what, and how bad they want it.
If you don't find a buyer, Rock Island Auctions is usually there at the show, and will set you up for a consignment. Their auctions are international, and bring big money.
I have a rare AH Thomson single shot target pistol I may list with them, the last one they sold brought $4200.
I had a "Thomson collector" email me with a "fair" offer of $900. I emailed him back and asked when the other 3 $900 payments would be made. He didn't respond.

[eightmd]

Thanks Trap55. I'm not sure when I could make it to the show but I'll look into it. How can I get in touch with Bert and who should I say gave me his name? Is he on Calguns?

[TRAP55]

Bert Hartman at Win1885@msn.com
Make sure "WINCHESTER" is in the subject line, and tell him Trap sent ya.
We're always at the spring and fall Reno show, next one is April 6-8.
http://www.bigrenoshow.com/

[eightmd]

Thanks a bunch, I appreciate it.

[Cone]

Trap,

How about Model 1886 - standard full octagon in 40-82 s/n 81243 ?

[TRAP55]

Originally Posted by Cone

Trap,

How about Model 1886 - standard full octagon in 40-82 s/n 81243 ?

Made in 1893, with 10296 made that year.

[mikeylikesit106]

Hello Trap55

How about my model 1873 S/N 321363

[TRAP55]

Originally Posted by mikeylikesit106

Hello Trap55

How about my model 1873 S/N 321363

Made 1889, with 38,651 made that year.

[covingtonhouse]

Got a Winchester model 88 .308 #983XX. Thinking of selling, and the info I have shows 1959 DOM. Any change in this info?
Thanks!!!

[TRAP55]

Originally Posted by covingtonhouse

Got a Winchester model 88 .308 #983XX. Thinking of selling, and the info I have shows 1959 DOM. Any change in this info?
Thanks!!!

Made mid 1960, 18,378 made that year.

[emcon5]

One I forgot about.

1911 SL 12 gauge (strangest shotgun design I have ever seen) S/N 598xx

Thanks in advance

[IntoForever]

Originally Posted by TRAP55

I got 1897 on that, so it would be safe to say, they were serial numbered different. I'll check with Bert and see what he has on that, and get back to you.

Following up to see if you found out anything further.

[TRAP55]

Originally Posted by emcon5

One I forgot about.

1911 SL 12 gauge (strangest shotgun design I have ever seen) S/N 598xx

Thanks in advance

Made 1911 to 1925, with 82,744 made.....and no reliable serial number data.

[TRAP55]

Originally Posted by IntoForever

Following up to see if you found out anything further.

Not yet, haven't had a chance to talk to Bert, his real job is working on Navy submarine computers, and I'm driving truck 12hrs a day, so it's kinda hard for the two of us to make contact. I will soon though, and let you know.

[jigenax]

Hi Trap,

I have a 12 ga. 1897 with 2 serials. One is one the receiver and the other is one the barrel band(?).

The receiver is "3971xx" with a "D" above it.

The other is "6523xx" with no letters.

Enjoy the pic!

[TRAP55]

Originally Posted by jigenax

Hi Trap,

I have a 12 ga. 1897 with 2 serials. One is one the receiver and the other is one the barrel band(?).

The receiver is "3971xx" with a "D" above it.

The other is "6523xx" with no letters.

Enjoy the pic!

Receiver number 3971xx was made in late 1907

Take down barrel and mag assembly 6523xx made in 1917

Makes you wonder what happen to the two halves of the other two guns?

[jigenax]

Originally Posted by TRAP55

Receiver number 3971xx was made in late 1907

Take down barrel and mag assembly 6523xx made in 1917

Makes you wonder what happen to the two halves of the other two guns?

Wow! 10 years apart? Yeah, never heard what happened to their respective halves. The FFL01 I bought it from said it came from an estate sale. It was one of those sales where none of the heirs knew about "Grampa's old guns" but I'm happy with it.

The unknown history kinda gives it some mystique to it. I can easily imagine the 97 was pressed into service for "The Great War" and during a bloody battle, suffered severe damage from a 8 mm round. During a lull in the fighting, the 97 was repaired by an armorer in the most field expedient way possible. Salvaging another serviceable barrel and mag assembly so it can return to the trenches and eventually returning home.

Or... the original owner was out hunting, dropped the 97 barrel first into the ground, resulting in a clogged barrel. Then in a split second, game appeared and the owner instantly reacted by aiming and pulling the trigger... which caused the barrel to banana peel....

So even though I'll never know what happened, it'll be amusing to think up what could have happened.

[jrr]

Hey there.. hoping you can help me out with my WInchester. I had the date at 1899-1901, but I'd like to know for sure.

Winchester 1897 takedown: serial 116821 C

Thanks for your help!

[TRAP55]

Originally Posted by jrr

Hey there.. hoping you can help me out with my WInchester. I had the date at 1899-1901, but I'd like to know for sure.

Winchester 1897 takedown: serial 116821 C

Thanks for your help!

Made in mid 1900, with 31641 made that year.

[TRAP55]

Some notes on the 1893/1897 Winchester shotguns.
Serial numbers for the 1897's were a continuation of the 1893 serial numbers.
The 1897 started with serial # 32,909, and ended with #46,190 in 1897.

The Model 1893 was manufactured with a rolled (fluid) steel barrel as standard. 3-blade and 4-blade Damascus steel barrels were a special order item only. It was the combination of its shorter 2-5/8" chamber, and being designed for black powder pressure levels that was its down fall. Winchester never formally "recalled" it, but they did offer to replace them with a new Model 1897 if the owner wished.

Bert has been surveying the 1893 for a number of years now, and thus far he has found (110) of them. In his review of the historical records (at the Cody Firearms Museum research office), there were only a few thousand of them that were returned and replaced with a Model 1897.
The very last 1897 was made in 1957, the only one made that year,
serial # 1,024,701

[freonr22]

What an awesome resource!

[shovel80]

hey Trap...I've got a model 1894 ser.# 929663....I'm wondering if there is a way to check if the options on this "Short Rifle" are from the factory..

Thanks, Terry

[coyotebait]

Hey Trap, whatcha got on this one?
Winchester model 1887 Serial# 53013

[TRAP55]

Originally Posted by shovel80

hey Trap...I've got a model 1894 ser.# 929663....I'm wondering if there is a way to check if the options on this "Short Rifle" are from the factory..

Thanks, Terry

Terry, that one was made early 1921, big drop in production that year, to only 8928 made. A Cody letter will tell the options, and if it went back for any others or repairs. How long is the barrel, and can you post a pic?
I'm not sure if Bert has wrapped up his Model 1894 survey for the new book yet, but I'm sure he would be interested in yours.

[TRAP55]

Originally Posted by coyotebait

Hey Trap, whatcha got on this one?
Winchester model 1887 Serial# 53013

Made in 1893, with 5176 made that year. 64,855 made from 1887 to 1899.

[coyotebait]

Thanks, That's what I came up with in the past as well, but records are so sketchy. GTK. Thanks.

[shovel80]

Trap...Cody Museum told me they didn't have the records for this one except for the correct date. This rifle has a 20 In. Octagon barrel with the express sight, looks like factory checkering, tang sight also, Crescent butt plate with the opening for the cleaning rod, sling swivel studs with the fore arm capped as a rifle, and this gun is also a take down model in .32 special...Bore is also Very good too excellent , Wood is Very good.
Sure would like to know if the options were factory,,I just purchased this rifle and will not have it home till March 6th...I'll take photos then.

Terry

[TRAP55]

Originally Posted by shovel80

Trap...Cody Museum told me they didn't have the records for this one except for the correct date. This rifle has a 20 In. Octagon barrel with the express sight, looks like factory checkering, tang sight also, Crescent butt plate with the opening for the cleaning rod, sling swivel studs with the fore arm capped as a rifle, and this gun is also a take down model in .32 special...Bore is also Very good too excellent , Wood is Very good.
Sure would like to know if the options were factory,,I just purchased this rifle and will not have it home till March 6th...I'll take photos then.

Terry

Terry, I was up in Sonora this morning delivering to the hospital, couldn't feel my fingers when I got back in the truck! Felt like it was about to snow.
"IF" there is any info on your rifle, after Bert sees some pics, he'll find it. One with all the options yours has, he'll dig. There are some early ones that won't letter, he'll let you know right away if yours won't. He has full access to the Cody records, and sits on the board for WACA ( http://www.winchestercollector.org/ )
Email Bert Hartman at Win1885@msn.com and tell him what you have, and the options. He's gonna want pics.
Make sure "WINCHESTER" is in the subject line, and tell him Trap sent ya.
We're always at the spring and fall Reno show, next one is April 6-8. If you haven't been, you need to, just to see the Winchesters. Bring yours, you'll get more with a hands on from him.
http://www.bigrenoshow.com/

[shovel80]

Thanks again Trap...Yes, it was a colder day in Sonora today! Much nicer yesterday at our pistol shoot in Jamestown..but it was about 70 last sat.... We just had some rain today, but didn't snow yet, maybe wednesday??..
I'll send an e-mail to that 1885 address and have some pics up soon!..Speaking of a Model 1885, I was looking at one for several months...trying to come up with some money..and when I finally had some cash to deal...I checked out the bore...It was Awful..and I wanted a shooter!..Cool Original 45-90 though!!


Terry

[TRAP55]

To quote Bert, "Real Men own and shoot a Winchester SINGLE-SHOT!"
You should see some of the ones he has! He has a couple in his collection he gets offers of $50K on all the time. He's close to completing a comprehensive book on the 1885's.
He got me this one for $500 less than my lowball offer. Serial 1933 made in 1886. It was originally barreled in 38-55, then re-barreled to .32-40 and the scope blocks added long before I got it. I mounted the vintage Wollensak scope, and found two vintage Winchester bullet molds to reload with. The rifle is sweet to shoot.

[shovel80]

Very Nice 1885 Trap!...I'd love to have one...I've only got two 1874 Sharps Italian Replicas as far as full size single shots go...and a few Inexpensive .22 single shots!
Trying to work up a BP Load for the 45-70...to shoot in BPCR Silhouette...Getting close!..
Terry..
P.S. Sorry for sort of Hijacking the Thread!

[94bob]

I just bought two pre 64 model 94"s and would like to know when they were made?
sn#1258825
sn#1403663
thanks

[TRAP55]

sn#1258825 made about Nov of 1940, with 43,398 made that year.

sn#1403663 made late 1946, with 58,934 made that year.

Interesting note that in 1943, it was the only year none made.
1944 only 13, 1945 saw 8870 produced.

[WhyFi]

What a great thread, thanks for all your work!

I just picked up my grandfathers Win 1897 s/n 323825

Thanks!