Case holder for use with prep center

[rhodesengr]

I have done a bunch of searching but can't find what I am looking for.

Here is the issue. I have a Lyman case prep center and before that I put case prep tools in a drill motor. I know most folks simply hold the brass with their fingers while running the primer pocket tools. Sometimes a case will catch and once or twice I have cut my finger.

So it would be nice to have a simple, hand-held chuck or collet (perhaps with a handle at 90 degrees) to hold a brass case firmly while running the various tools on the case.

I have a Dewalt chuck that goes in my Dewalt power screwdriver. That just doesn't work very well when not mounted in the driver. Maybe some other generic chuck or pin vise would work.

I can't be the only person that has cut his fingers while prepping brass. Any purpose built products or adaptations?

I did find the Lee trimmer kit and that comes with a 3-jaw chuck that might work.

[ar15barrels]

Look into wilson case holders.
You press or knock the case in and it taper locks.
To remove, you press or knock the case out.

Here is a link to knocking cases into and out of the holders:
https://youtu.be/hGFOZBAGB2k?t=132

[drkphibr]

Originally Posted by rhodesengr

I have done a bunch of searching but can't find what I am looking for.

Here is the issue. I have a Lyman case prep center and before that I put case prep tools in a drill motor. I know most folks simply hold the brass with their fingers while running the primer pocket tools. Sometimes a case will catch and once or twice I have cut my finger.

So it would be nice to have a simple, hand-held chuck or collet (perhaps with a handle at 90 degrees) to hold a brass case firmly while running the various tools on the case.

I have a Dewalt chuck that goes in my Dewalt power screwdriver. That just doesn't work very well when not mounted in the driver. Maybe some other generic chuck or pin vise would work.

I can't be the only person that has cut his fingers while prepping brass. Any purpose built products or adaptations?

I did find the Lee trimmer kit and that comes with a 3-jaw chuck that might work.

This was my solution to holding onto brass while trimming (either brass that still had some lube or short bottleneck brass that's hard to grip - idea starts at ~3:00 mark or so)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VsnUVQg-rc

[rhodesengr]

I guess I should have said I am loading handgun brass:9mm and 357 Magnum.

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

Look into wilson case holders.

I saw those on Midway and when reading about the rifle version, it sounded promising. They have pistol versions but here is what they say
"Cases can’t be “bumped” in and out of these holders like most rifle cases but must be forced in with a light arbor press or mallet and must be driven or pushed out. "

So that doesn't sound so good; needing a press

Originally Posted by drkphibr

This was my solution to holding onto brass while trimming (either brass that still had some lube or short bottleneck brass that's hard to grip - idea starts at ~3:00 mark or so)...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VsnUVQg-rc

That's a clever idea for holding brass while working on the mouth end but I mostly need to work on the primer pocket.

As of now, I am hoping this chuck will work
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by rhodesengr

I guess I should have said I am loading handgun brass:9mm and 357 Magnum.

I saw those on Midway and when reading about the rifle version, it sounded promising. They have pistol versions but here is what they say
"Cases can’t be “bumped” in and out of these holders like most rifle cases but must be forced in with a light arbor press or mallet and must be driven or pushed out. "

So that doesn't sound so good; needing a press

9mm and 357magnum don't need any work done on a case prep center.
Tumble them clean and then reload them.

[FLIGHT762]

The only "Work" I could see having to do on 9MM cases is cutting the primer crimp. I would just use gloves, if you have a lot to do.

I had to cut a few primer crimps recently out some 9MM. I just used the cutter in my RCBS prep center. No gloves.

What "Work" are you doing to the cases?

I've never needed to clean the primer pockets on Pistol cases.

The only time I mess with primer pockets is squaring the primer pocket on precision Rifle cases. I usually don't even clean them after that.

[rhodesengr]

Originally Posted by FLIGHT762

What "Work" are you doing to the cases?

Pocket reaming, pocket uniforming, pocket bottom cleaning.

Whether any of it is needed is open for discussion. I understand some don't even clean their brass. Others just clean and the load.

I started using the reaming tool because I bought a bunch of Ginex primers and they run large while my Starline Brass is said to run small. The Ginex Primers were very difficult to push in to new un worked primer pockets. I have a separate thread about that. Apparently it is a common issue with Ginex primers.

I am relatively new to cleaning brass. I am still developing my process. My last batch still had a small amount of crud in the primer pockets.

I want the option to hold the brass with a tool. So that is what this thread is about. Particularly when I run the reaming tool, I can get some catches that risk my fingers.

So needed or not, that is what I am looking for. I found a collet block set on Amazon that would work with a 3/8" collet if that cheapo chuck doesn't work out. Also I have an RCBS pullet puller that would work if I can find a collet that fits the brass rather than the bullet. 357 Mag cases are close to 3/8" dia and that might be too small for the .40 Cal collet and too big for .375 collet.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by rhodesengr

So needed or not, that is what I am looking for. I found a collet block set on Amazon that would work with a 3/8" collet if that cheapo chuck doesn't work out. Also I have an RCBS pullet puller that would work if I can find a collet that fits the brass rather than the bullet. 357 Mag cases are close to 3/8" dia and that might be too small for the .40 Cal collet and too big for .375 collet.

357 mag cases should be around 0.381" to 0.383" depending on the chamber they were fired in or if they are resized and how far they are resized.

A 10mm ER-20 collet would hold them just fine as metric ER collets typically have a 1mm grip range.

You can get a 1mm to 13mm ER20 collet set for around $24 and an ER-20 collet chuck for around $13.

I don't think ER collets will hold a tapered 9mm case well though.
You would do much better with a wilson case holder and getting an arbor press for 9mm.

[Cowboy T]

I use Starline cases with all sorts of brands of primers, including the following.

• CCI
• Federal
• Fiocchi
• Remington
• Murom, often sold under the Wolf and Tulammo brands
• Winchester

The Starline cases have been great with all of these. In my experience, they don't run small in the primer pockets. Seating primers in them has been, for me, just as easy as with other headstamps.

However, I have had a few issues with Sellier and Bellot (S&B) cases. It's not because the primer pockets are small, but rather because the primer pockets aren't as well chamfered as other brands are. In my case, an RCBS primer pocket swager solved that problem.

For the other stuff, you really don't need to do any of that. There is no need to clean the primer pockets or trim the cases, etc. I do a lot of .38/357, .45 ACP, .44 Spl/Mag, and .45 Colt, and even some 9mm, and never has any of that been required. Rifle cases, yes, trimming matters, and for match rifle ammo, I clean the primer pockets...but never with handgun cases.

[rhodesengr]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

You can get a 1mm to 13mm ER20 collet set for around $24 and an ER-20 collet chuck for around $13.

Links?

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by rhodesengr

Links?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155040922145
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143659902367

[rhodesengr]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155040922145
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143659902367

Thanks. Who knew there were some many different types of collets. Reading up a bit, they say the ER collets are not so good for holding short pieces which is what I think you were alluding to. The 5C type collet is said to be better for short pieces but less adjustment range. Also, with 5C type you can get a block closer with a quick release handle like this
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09VBLSCHD/

I didn't see anything like that for ER type.

I am still hoping my cheapo drill chuck will be enough.

Thanks for the ideas though.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by rhodesengr

Thanks. Who knew there were some many different types of collets. Reading up a bit, they say the ER collets are not so good for holding short pieces which is what I think you were alluding to. The 5C type collet is said to be better for short pieces but less adjustment range. Also, with 5C type you can get a block closer with a quick release handle like this
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09VBLSCHD/

I didn't see anything like that for ER type.

I am still hoping my cheapo drill chuck will be enough.

Thanks for the ideas though.

When people talk about short pieces, they are generally talking about something less than half the length of it's diameter.
5C collets can have a stop installed inside them so you can slip a disc into the collet and seat the disc against the stop to hold it straight.
You can do this same thing with other types of collets as well, but you have to create your own collet stop setup as other types of collets don't have internal threads in them for the specific purpose.

I have 5c collet blocks and the lever closer and it's way too big/heavy to be useful as a handheld tool.
That's why I steered you to an ER-20 collet.
You just twist the two sides of the collet chuck to loosen or tighten and the collet chuck is the right size to hold in your hand.
An ER-20 collet will hold your 357 mag brass perfectly.

If you knew someone with an ID grinder, they could open up a 9mm ER-20 collet to match the standard taper of a 9x19 case so it would work good for the 9x19 tapered cases.
There is not a standard collet made with an inside taper like you need as standard collets of all types are made to grip straight shanks.

[rhodesengr]

The $10 chuck looks to work nicely. Just barely big enough for 357 Mag but I think I am good. Thanks for all the input and discussion.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by rhodesengr

The $10 chuck looks to work nicely. Just barely big enough for 357 Mag but I think I am good. Thanks for all the input and discussion.

A 3 jaw drill chuck is going to distort the 357 cases if you don't put a support pin inside the case to clamp against.
That's where ER collets shine because they have 12 points of contact instead of 3 and the 12 contact points have the same radius as the part being held vs a 3 jaw chuck that has flat jaws to hold multiple sizes over a wide diameter range.

[rhodesengr]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

A 3 jaw drill chuck is going to distort the 357 cases

I understand, but not sure I see how it's worse than holding with your fingers. That is only 2-points. They will still go through the resizing anyway.

But I am going to order the ER collets because I like to experiment. I just wanted to see how the cheapy chuck worked first.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by rhodesengr

I understand, but not sure I see how it's worse than holding with your fingers.

The chuck has a LOT more clamping force than your fingers.
Your fingers are also far more flexible than the brass so your fingers conform to the brass instead of the brass conforming to the steel chuck jaws.

[RandyD]

If you want to hold a case with your hands while case prepping, just wear a leather work glove.

[rhodesengr]

I did a bunch with the that cheapy chuck last week. Seemed to work fine and I didn't notice any deformation.

[divingin]

Originally Posted by RandyD

If you want to hold a case with your hands while case prepping, just wear a leather work glove.

I'd think dishwashing rubber gloves would give grip, a bit of protection, and be cheap enough.

That said, I'm not really sure OP needs to do all the prep work. But, it's his time and effort, so whatever.

As an aside, if the cases grab, try using less pressure and let the tools cut at the rate they want rather than forcing them. May or may not help.

[rhodesengr]

Originally Posted by divingin

That said, I'm not really sure OP needs to do all the prep work. But, it's his time and effort, so whatever.

I started with primer pocket tools because I was having some trouble with Ginex primers being difficult to press in. I have a separate thread about that. But I am also enjoying learning about case cleaning and prepping for my hand-loads whether it is needed or not.

As an aside, what I have found is that no one seems to make a tool that "uniforms" the primer pocket diameter. All the "uniformers" are designed to only cut on the bottom and not the sides. The "reamers" seem to only cut a bevel at the top of the pocket. I understand that "reamers" are designed to remove a "military crimp" which is not an issue for me with my Starline brass. I have looked at all the primer pocket tools from all the main companies and have not found one that "uniforms" the diameter. Some of the Ginex primers press in OK and some were very difficult so that tells me either the primers are not uniform or the brass is not uniform. There is not much I can do about the primers but I thought i could at least make sure the pockets were not undersize. Apparently, no one makes a tool for that.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by rhodesengr

I started with primer pocket tools because I was having some trouble with Ginex primers being difficult to press in. I have a separate thread about that. But I am also enjoying learning about case cleaning and prepping for my hand-loads whether it is needed or not.

As an aside, what I have found is that no one seems to make a tool that "uniforms" the primer pocket diameter. All the "uniformers" are designed to only cut on the bottom and not the sides. The "reamers" seem to only cut a bevel at the top of the pocket. I understand that "reamers" are designed to remove a "military crimp" which is not an issue for me with my Starline brass. I have looked at all the primer pocket tools from all the main companies and have not found one that "uniforms" the diameter. Some of the Ginex primers press in OK and some were very difficult so that tells me either the primers are not uniform or the brass is not uniform. There is not much I can do about the primers but I thought i could at least make sure the pockets were not undersize. Apparently, no one makes a tool for that.

Almost nobody makes a tool for that because it's not been a problem until Ginex primers hit the market.
The problem is the primers.

https://lewilson.com/primer-pocket-reamer
Call Wilson and ask them if their primer pocket reamer cuts the 0.175" diameter as well as the radius or if the cutting flutes are smaller than 0.175" on the 0.175" model so that the tool will only cut the radius.

[rhodesengr]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

Almost nobody makes a tool for that because it's not been a problem until Ginex primers hit the market.
The problem is the primers.

https://lewilson.com/primer-pocket-reamer
Call Wilson and ask them if their primer pocket reamer cuts the 0.175" diameter as well as the radius or if the cutting flutes are smaller than 0.175" on the 0.175" model so that the tool will only cut the radius.

I have the reamers from RCBS and Lyman. They do have cutting flutes on the sides. They do not seem to help the Ginex primers. Probably the Ginex primers are just too big. I have tried to measure. I have tried to measure the reamer diameter but I just have cheap calipers and can not resolve the 1 or 2 tenths of a mil that would make the difference between a tight primer and and normal primer. But just going by feel, running either of those reamers doesn't seem to help.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by rhodesengr

I have the reamers from RCBS and Lyman. They do have cutting flutes on the sides. They do not seem to help the Ginex primers. Probably the Ginex primers are just too big. I have tried to measure. I have tried to measure the reamer diameter but I just have cheap calipers and can not resolve the 1 or 2 tenths of a mil that would make the difference between a tight primer and and normal primer. But just going by feel, running either of those reamers doesn't seem to help.

There's not even a question that the primers are the problem.
I would not expect any primer pocket reamer to cut the pocket oversized as such a tool would ruin cases for use with standard sized primers.

Primer pockets are supposed to be 0.1745" diameter for small primers or 0.210" for large primers so don't expect to find any reloading tool made to enlarge that dimension.

What do your primers actually measure?
What do your tools that have cutting flutes on the sides actually measure?
Roll the tool through the calipers backwards to measure so as not to damage the cutting tool or the calipers.

According to these specs (which I did not confirm with SAAMI), there's 0.002" allowance for press-fit for small pistol primers so don't worry about 0.0001" measurements:
https://ballistictools.com/articles/...d-diameter.php

[divingin]

I have an old hand tool for reaming the crimp from primer pockets (though I suspect it was for large primers, as I probably got it for 45ACP.) The cutting portion looks like an end mill cutting head, with no flutes on the end of the tool. It did not bevel the pocket at the case head. No idea what it measures.

[rhodesengr]

I ordered some stuff so I can measure the pockets and primers.
A half decent micrometer and a set of half-ball hole gauges.