POF Tactical Levers

[bigboyshooter]

With all these people making their lever guns tactical I knew this year would bring some new things from manufacturers. I came across these. Looks like they will be showing them at SHOT Show. I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but it is another option for some.9mm fun. I don’t have any info other than what I came across on Reddit and these pictures. Don’t flame me. Lol

[Sandspider500]

That's interesting. I wonder how nuclear you can make 9mm loads for that thing.

[pennstater]

Scheese! Leave the lever guns be for grimme sakes. Make them tacticool enough, we'll get restrictions on these too! Leave the damn things alone! Please!

MLC

[iMigraine]

Sure ain't pretty...

I understand they needed the magazine for rimless cartridge but it's like a big snaggletooth.

[M76]

the one on the magazine cover with a suppressor sure looks fun...

[Joezamboni]

Things that should never be on a lever gun:

Magazines
Magpul
Free float rails
M-lok
Red Dots

I’ll just get the Ruger PC 9

I like the 9mm idea though. Just see it being hard as a rimless cartridge without a magazine.

[SonofWWIIDI]

I can see the appeal.

If money were no object, I’d definitely get one…





…of those and everything else!

[sghart]

[BillyMays]

Call me crazy but I love it. Looks like good fun. Just hoping the price tag comes in under $1k... I have my doubts.

[Imageview]

Ranger point precision used to do 9mm conversions for marlins, and grizzly customs was doing some conversions (although I think they mostly do 45 or 10mm) but has stopped doing them at this time for some reason. 9mm doesn’t get quite the same benefits as say 357 or 44 because the case size is a lot more limiting, so you’re not gonna see much more performance (if any) than in a semi auto rifle. Which is only slightly more than a pistol.

Detachable mags get you the ability to use pointy bullets, so that is a nice functional plus. But there are a few levers out there (blr, Henry long ranger) that already have that. The fitelight concept gun allows the use of ar 15 uppers at least so it provides an option for some more interesting calibers than just 9mm.

I don’t have a particular take on walnut vs tacticool, one of my levers is wood with a peep and the other has a light and adjustable stock, so that aspect doesn’t turn me off or fluff up my skirts particularly. But 9mm is the oddball here for me. I guess maybe they are targeting people who’d like a lever in a centerfire cartridge and already own 9mm handguns,. For me it screams range toy.

[k1dude]

Looks like manufacturers are trying to get ahead of the potential semi-auto ban the dems keep trying to ram through.

[k1dude]

Originally Posted by Imageview

Ranger point precision used to do 9mm conversions for marlins, and grizzly customs was doing some conversions (although I think they mostly do 45 or 10mm) but has stopped doing them at this time for some reason. 9mm doesn’t get quite the same benefits as say 357 or 44 because the case size is a lot more limiting, so you’re not gonna see much more performance (if any) than in a semi auto rifle. Which is only slightly more than a pistol.

Detachable mags get you the ability to use pointy bullets, so that is a nice functional plus. But there are a few levers out there (blr, Henry long ranger) that already have that. The fitelight concept gun allows the use of ar 15 uppers at least so it provides an option for some more interesting calibers than just 9mm.

9mm Major is nothing to sneeze at. Especially out of a longer barrel.

[FeuerFrei]

I agree that a 9mm scooting along out of a longer barrel makes it another animal.
A guy could find a real use for +p+ with no harm to the rifle. Monster created.

If they could get a desert eagle type mag to work then there's your deer/hog gun that eats off the same plate as your side arm. Great idea for a camp/trail gun in a take down version.

Looks like possibilities for other calibers. 10mm is a zero brainer.

[Imageview]

Would love to see some good well tested numbers on 9mm major out of a long barrel, seems interesting. That being said the best I could find with some quick googling was someone claiming 2k fps with a 90gr bullet out of a 16” barrel, which puts it pretty much in 30 carbine territory. Nothing to sneeze at for sure, although I suspect if someone ran the numbers in quickloads for that it would be squarely in the do not shoot range. Another person posted 1500fps using 115gr bullets with actual load data, so I trust that a bit more. That’s quite a bit short of 30 carbine, but it wasn’t max pressure for sure.

If would be on the light side for deer sized game, but doable. At least for closer in shots. Even with pointy bullets I personally wouldn’t be comfortable past 100 yards or so. Certainly on bipedal targets it would be pretty effective. But still a pretty fair bit short of 357 mag, where 2k fps with 125 gr projectile out of a rifle is on the hotter end but definitely not pushing boundaries.

[k1dude]

Keep in mind a 16" barrel will jack those fps numbers up by at least a couple hundred over a 4' or 5" barrel. Buffalo Bore, Double Tap, and Underwood put out factory rounds that are pushing 1400+ fps for a 115gr out of pistol barrels. So jack those fps numbers up a couple hundred and you're looking at around 700's in energy.

[SG29736]

I'm a traditional lever gun fan with a few Marlins 44mag, 44-40 and 45-70. All octagon barrels. But that doesnt look bad and I'd prefer it with the magazine assuming it is very reliable. It would be interesting to see what balkistics the gun would handle without trying to totally max it out.

[k1dude]

It's also probably a lot faster to cycle 9mm than .357 due to the shorter 9mm cartridge. I imagine the stroke is shorter. It would be an interesting gun in 10mm too.

[KrizB]

This will be a hoot for the people that can SBR and slap suppressors on anything, for everyone else it's probably a hard sell.

[North86]

$1800+

Hard no.

[tuolumnejim]

Never mind I just saw the first thread.

[CheapBloke]

$2k.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[tuolumnejim]

When I looked up fugly it was there.

[SDDAVE56]

First thing that came to mind was, Ouch! Them things can hurt you with out firing a shot. I like my lever guns because they're smooth and silky feeling. Oh and they don't give me a headache when I stare at them.

[lastinline]

Marketing, nothing more, for a range toy. If you want a rifle, get a rifle. Even so, with a magazine that was a tiny bit bigger, you could have it in .357, which would be much stronger than 9mm.
Better yet, get a semi-auto.

[bonesurf]

assuming they are starting with a 9 cause they already make a 9 rifle and this will use the same magazine which I believe is propriety. it doesnt look like any other magazine cursorily looking at it on the interwebz.

I do agree, would be more interested in 357.

[Eat Dirt]

Originally Posted by tuolumnejim

When I looked up fugly it was there.

Yup .....

A lever gun is a lever gun
Not some kind of James Bond contraption

Could you see John Wayne using that thing ... NO

[bonesurf]

Originally Posted by North86

$1800+

Hard no.

I just saw one on GB for 2400. HELL NO

[FeuerFrei]

It is pricey and definitely not for the lever traditionalist, but what happens when these things get let out into the wild?

Truck gun.
Cowboy action shoots. It is a lever gun. IDK the equipment rules.
Small/mid sized game getter. ROUS's.
HD.
Camping/hiking gun w/folding stock option.
All the 1913 crap will fit.
Indoor range friendly.

Wait and see what happens to sales. You never know.

[lastinline]

It’s uglier than Maxine Waters, and that’s Kel-Tec ugly.

[FNGGlock]

I believe this will be a fad, why not just get a semi-auto PCC for rimless cartridges like 9/10/45, etc? See no upside to a lever for pistol cartridges over a semi auto PCC

Originally Posted by Imageview

Would love to see some good well tested numbers on 9mm major out of a long barrel, seems interesting. That being said the best I could find with some quick googling was someone claiming 2k fps with a 90gr bullet out of a 16” barrel, which puts it pretty much in 30 carbine territory. Nothing to sneeze at for sure, although I suspect if someone ran the numbers in quickloads for that it would be squarely in the do not shoot range. Another person posted 1500fps using 115gr bullets with actual load data, so I trust that a bit more. That’s quite a bit short of 30 carbine, but it wasn’t max pressure for sure.

If would be on the light side for deer sized game, but doable. At least for closer in shots. Even with pointy bullets I personally wouldn’t be comfortable past 100 yards or so. Certainly on bipedal targets it would be pretty effective. But still a pretty fair bit short of 357 mag, where 2k fps with 125 gr projectile out of a rifle is on the hotter end but definitely not pushing boundaries.

I tested some factory 9mm out of a PCC (Ruger with 16" barrel) and the results wasn't nearly as impressive compared to what happened with a similar experiment with 357 Magnums.

I used a Glock 17 and "34" (with 5.3" KKM barrel). The 5.3" gave on average about 50fps over the 4.6" barrel. Here are a few cliff notes, with the ones who gained the most from a carbine length barrel compared to 4.6"

HST 124gr +P - 1246 to 1372
Speer 124gr +p - 1198 to 1393
AE 115gr ball - 1234 to 1440

Most 124gr load got only 80-90fps more +p had a little more - 115gr also got up to 200fps more. The biggest challenge will be to check the bullet to make sure it will have the desired affect on the target and not go to pieces on you.

Compared to 357 which I tested in a 6" 686 + compare to 17.4" Henry. Keep in mind the 6" already has around 100fps over a typical full size 357 for most loads.
Remington SJHP 158gr - 1383 to 1756
Remington SJSP 125gr - 1551 to 2042

Really don't think 9mm has the case capacity to really push the envelope with carbines, maybe 10mm is a better option - but then again why not just get a Semi-auto PCC??
If you are going to hand load Magnum cartridges will give you a lot more than 9mm for a carbine. 10mm will sound more interesting for a lever, when there may be concerns with super hot loads messing with the semi mechanism.

[sigstroker]

Originally Posted by FeuerFrei

I agree that a 9mm scooting along out of a longer barrel makes it another animal.
A guy could find a real use for +p+ with no harm to the rifle. Monster created.

If they could get a desert eagle type mag to work then there's your deer/hog gun that eats off the same plate as your side arm. Great idea for a camp/trail gun in a take down version.

Looks like possibilities for other calibers. 10mm is a zero brainer.

What's a no brainer is .357 Magnum. Oh yeah, they already make those.

[sigstroker]

Originally Posted by k1dude

It's also probably a lot faster to cycle 9mm than .357 due to the shorter 9mm cartridge. I imagine the stroke is shorter. It would be an interesting gun in 10mm too.

Stroke on a lever gun is the same. They just change the leverage to fit the cartridge length.

[tuna quesadilla]

If I had a nickel for every time someone on a gun board said, "Aww gee, why doesn't anyone make a 9mm lever action? Gosh, I'd buy it up right away if they made one," then I'd be able to retire tomorrow.

Now we'll see if the free market is actually going to purchase the thing they've been clamoring after for years.

Edit: I just saw the price. LOL. Forget everything I just said. Nobody in their right mind is paying $2k for this.

[FeuerFrei]

Originally Posted by sigstroker

What's a no brainer is .357 Magnum. Oh yeah, they already make those.

Detachable 10 rd box magazine 357? Haven't seen those anywhere yet.

357 would be a great option. 38 Super may be another good flat shooting round?

IF this takes off it could be a flexible option for restricted staters.

I'll keep maintaining a holding pattern on this one.

[Imageview]

Originally Posted by FeuerFrei

Detachable 10 rd box magazine 357? Haven't seen those anywhere yet.

357 would be a great option. 38 Super may be another good flat shooting round?

IF this takes off it could be a flexible option for restricted staters.

I'll keep maintaining a holding pattern on this one.

I actually prefer a tube fed rifle. Can top off at any time, don’t need to carry additional magazines. But that’s just me. Same as I prefer a chambering (357) that takes full advantage of the barrel length over one (9mm) that sees little improvement. 10mm probably wouldn’t get as much improvement as say 44 mag either, but it’s ballistics are pretty reasonable on its own at least. Still just me.

If other people dig it, good on them. If you dig it, awesome. I own plenty of guns that have limited appeal to most folks. The guns I own that have the broadest appeal (MSRs) I find boring and clunky. Lever guns are fun, and if this brings more interest in lever guns to a new audience I think that’s great. 9mm seems to me to be a perfect plinking round for most shooters that could be useful if not the most effective in extreme situations. If the reports of price point are accurate, I suspect interest will be muted.

[Scratch705]

Originally Posted by tuna quesadilla

If I had a nickel for every time someone on a gun board said, "Aww gee, why doesn't anyone make a 9mm lever action? Gosh, I'd buy it up right away if they made one," then I'd be able to retire tomorrow.

Now we'll see if the free market is actually going to purchase the thing they've been clamoring after for years.

Edit: I just saw the price. LOL. Forget everything I just said. Nobody in their right mind is paying $2k for this.

Yup. I would take a serious look at one but not at $1800. Take off the one and have it $800 and maybe.

[Russian Bot]

Hopefully this will slow down all the people destroying originals to make these.

[-hanko]

The point of a lever gun is it in a slim package with not much to catch on that can ride in a horse scabbard.

That thing got gang banged by the ghost of Tapco.

Boomers who have watched Tombstone too many times will buy this.

Just wait until Costa starts pimping them at his classes as the ultimate CQB lever operating weapon.

[Spyder]

I don't like the company at all, but a 9mm lever gun may just get me to spend money with them! I can spray paint it and shoot it for cheap fun.

[Spyder]

Originally Posted by iMigraine

Sure ain't pretty...

I understand they needed the magazine for rimless cartridge but it's like a big snaggletooth.

My model 96 with 10/22 30 round mags is one of my favorite blasters.