Scout Rifle Stripper Clips

[AgentPickle]

Hi Guys, new to the forum. Hope its OK to share the video I made modifying my Ruger Scout to take 5 round stripper clips.

https://youtu.be/Kq5sWqjRiaI

[Canucky]

Welcome to the forum.

[SonofWWIIDI]

Nice.

[splithoof]

Interesting modification. As someone who has spent considerable time and expense with “Scout-ish” /Scout types of rifles, I’d like to see some actual timed comparisons between that mod and conventional magazine swaps.
You probably already know, but this site offers much discussion on the subject of scout rifle criteria, and scout rifle use in general.
http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php

[1859sharps]

Scout rifles and experimentation for improvements go hand in hand. Always glad to see someone continuing to experiment.

Thoughts on the your mod. Off to a good start. To take it to the next level and improve efficiency.

1. You really need a guide that helps hold and stabilize the clip.
2. The magazine needs to be truly tuned/designed for use with clips.

As far as Scout rifle specification, the use of stripper clips is not a part of the criteria. So adding them is a personal preference questions.

If memory serves, Cooper was more keen on the detachable box magazine. Weight was calculated with the rifle unloaded. But I do not recall if that included the weight of a detachable box magazine. I think arguing over if it does or does not, particularly in the age of polymer magazines is getting off in the weeds.

As far as carrying extra ammunition, polymer is pretty light, and you have to factor in the mechanics of a stripper clip system vs a box mag. smooth, quick, and reliable reload could outweigh any weight savings a stripper clip might offer. There is also the protection of the cartridges, which does a better job while being carried?

Having said all that. Depending on how things go court case wise and legislation wise, what is old could be new again...meaning making rifles work with stripper clips could become a thing. you might have just found your self on the cutting edge...

[joefrank64k]

Originally Posted by 1859sharps

Scout rifles and experimentation for improvements go hand in hand. Always glad to see someone continuing to experiment.

Thoughts on the your mod. Off to a good start. To take it to the next level and improve efficiency.

1. You really need a guide that helps hold and stabilize the clip.
2. The magazine needs to be truly tuned/designed for use with clips.

As far as Scout rifle specification, the use of stripper clips is not a part of the criteria. So adding them is a personal preference questions.

If memory serves, Cooper was more keen on the detachable box magazine. Weight was calculated with the rifle unloaded. But I do not recall if that included the weight of a detachable box magazine. I think arguing over if it does or does not, particularly in the age of polymer magazines is getting off in the weeds.

As far as carrying extra ammunition, polymer is pretty light, and you have to factor in the mechanics of a stripper clip system vs a box mag. smooth, quick, and reliable reload could outweigh any weight savings a stripper clip might offer. There is also the protection of the cartridges, which does a better job while being carried?

Having said all that. Depending on how things go court case wise and legislation wise, what is old could be new again...meaning making rifles work with stripper clips could become a thing. you might have just found your self on the cutting edge...

That's interesting. I always thought that Cooper (if we go with his definition) specified a magazine-fed bolt action and detachable box mags or stripper clips were desirable (but not required)?

Of course, when talking what/what doesn't go into a scout rifle, things can get really wild, haha!!

Either way, I'm also glad to see experimentation!!

[JohnnyMtn]

Very nice video. I mean, I liked the way it was shot, edited, and narrated. Pretty good production and style.

As for the mod, I’m sorry but I don’t get it. Boring into the receiver like that seems like a heck of a lot of work just to allow the loading of a removable mag from the open bolt position. Why not just change the magazine? Swapping in a new 5-rounder or 10-rounder would seem a lot faster.

But I’m fully open to discussions like this because I’m sure there are many things that I don’t know.

And welcome to CGN.

[kendog4570]

That’s half of a clip slotting job. The easy half! Rem 40x relief at the back of the ring is a 7/16” radius. Don’t remember the depth off top of my head, but be mindful your cutting away the backside of the top locking lug. Less is more!

There needs to be enough material at the front of the bridge to cut a slot to guide the clips. Doesn’t appear to be enough on the Ruger action. The real craftsmanship and artwork are in the squaring of the slot, and cutting the side notches at the correct angle and profile to allow the empty clips to jump away while closing the bolt.

[smittty]

Looks too cumbersome to use without a stripper guide.

[W.R.Buchanan]

How about just using extra magazines that are much faster and easier to change than strippers. I have about 10 extra magazines, mostly the polymer ones which feed smoother than the steel ones.

All these magazines load from the front not over the top so your mod won't work with the Steel Mags as the feed lips won't bend out of the way so the cartridge can go in like the Poly ones do.. They have to go in from the front of the magazine.

A little more understanding of how the feed system of the Scout works might be in order?

Randy.

[1859sharps]

Originally Posted by joefrank64k

Of course, when talking what/what doesn't go into a scout rifle, things can get really wild, haha!!

Only because people read one article and think they know.

What makes a rifle a Scout Rifle is not as vague as people want to think. A lot of the core elements are pretty clear and not a lot of room for debate. Either your rifle meets them, or it doesn't.

There is also a lot of intentional misrepresentation that is confusing the discussions out there as well. For example, that Cooper claimed the Scout Rifle could be a valid modern infantry rifle. He actually never said that, nor intended that.

The best way to know what is or is not a Scout Rifle is to either read everything Cooper published related to the subject starting with the Gun Digest article in 1983 I believe it was forward until he died, in as close to chronological order of release as possible. Few people do this, very, very few.

A second way is to read Richard Mann's The Scout Rifle Study and he did that work for you and then some, and then wrote a "report" (book) on what he found. Richard is one of a very, very, very few truly trustworthy sources for explaining what Cooper was going for now that Cooper has passed.

Based on Cooper's own words of endorsement, if you want to see an example of what he was going for, just look at the Steyr Scout Rifle. That rifle is our new point of departure for those who want to advance the concept.

[1859sharps]

Originally Posted by W.R.Buchanan

How about just using extra magazines that are much faster and easier to change than strippers. I have about 10 extra magazines, mostly the polymer ones which feed smoother than the steel ones.

While stripper clips are not a part of the criteria for what makes a rifle a Scout Rifle, there is a compelling argument to be made that detachable magazines can get lost in the field, that an ADL or BDL style magazine keeps a rifle in operation. With such a rifle, and a forward mounted scope, stripper clips start to make sense.

However, what if you do not have, cannot acquire, or cannot use a forward mounted scope?

Simply having a forward mounted scope does not make a rifle a Scout Rifle, nor does a traditional mounted scope suddenly "de scout" a Scout Rifle. As more manufactures drop the forward mounted scope from their product line, this is an important factor to keep in mind. This progressing development in the scope world may negate any value stripper clips provide.

Still, keeping the skill live for building a rifle that can use stripper clips is worthwhile effort. For all we know, some kind of red dot might replace the "traditional" forward mounted scope and that could make strippers practical again.

[splithoof]

Originally Posted by 1859sharps

Still, keeping the skill live for building a rifle that can use stripper clips is worthwhile effort. For all we know, some kind of red dot might replace the "traditional" forward mounted scope and that could make strippers practical again.

We have had much discussion at school in regards to using RDS on Scout rifles; some use them as a backup that can be carried in a pouch if pre-zeroed, in place of using their back-up iron sights. This was a topic of discussion at the 2016 conference, of which I participated in. Personally, I prefer to leave good iron sights on most rifles, and for our GSR’s, use the Leupold 1-5X Firedot IER optic. The eyebox of those cover about 1/3 of the ejection port, so stripper clips wouldn’t be of much use for that. As I have gotten older, that optic seems to work best, so I have it on two of the three. I use the Leupold 2.5X on my CZ “mini scout”, the one that is pictured in Richard’s book. While it is not by definition a true scout rifle, it is very nice still. That little rifle might be good with stripper clips, but then again I’ve stocked up on magazines, which can be changed out efficiently while the rifle is shouldered and remains on target. Charging the magazine with a stripper clip would require the bolt to be in the rearward position, negating a quick (or snap) shot if required.

[AgentPickle]

Originally Posted by splithoof

Interesting modification. As someone who has spent considerable time and expense with “Scout-ish” /Scout types of rifles, I’d like to see some actual timed comparisons between that mod and conventional magazine swaps.
You probably already know, but this site offers much discussion on the subject of scout rifle criteria, and scout rifle use in general.
http://www.scoutrifle.org/index.php

Thanks I will check that forum out!

[joefrank64k]

Originally Posted by 1859sharps

Only because people read one article and think they know.

What makes a rifle a Scout Rifle is not as vague as people want to think. A lot of the core elements are pretty clear and not a lot of room for debate. Either your rifle meets them, or it doesn't.

There is also a lot of intentional misrepresentation that is confusing the discussions out there as well. For example, that Cooper claimed the Scout Rifle could be a valid modern infantry rifle. He actually never said that, nor intended that.

The best way to know what is or is not a Scout Rifle is to either read everything Cooper published related to the subject starting with the Gun Digest article in 1983 I believe it was forward until he died, in as close to chronological order of release as possible. Few people do this, very, very few.

A second way is to read Richard Mann's The Scout Rifle Study and he did that work for you and then some, and then wrote a "report" (book) on what he found. Richard is one of a very, very, very few truly trustworthy sources for explaining what Cooper was going for now that Cooper has passed.

Based on Cooper's own words of endorsement, if you want to see an example of what he was going for, just look at the Steyr Scout Rifle. That rifle is our new point of departure for those who want to advance the concept.

Haha, that's exactly what I did.

Got a Steyr Scout in ODG, but went with 6.5 Creed, since I have - to borrow FeuerFrei's phrase - a 'troll's hoard' of that ammo.

[splithoof]

Originally Posted by joefrank64k

Got a Steyr Scout in ODG, but went with 6.5 Creed, since I have - to borrow FeuerFrei's phrase - a 'troll's hoard' of that ammo.

Smart move. If I were going to acquire another Steyr, that’s exactly the chambering I’d get it in.

[1859sharps]

Originally Posted by joefrank64k

Haha, that's exactly what I did.

Got a Steyr Scout in ODG, but went with 6.5 Creed, since I have - to borrow FeuerFrei's phrase - a 'troll's hoard' of that ammo.

Good man, good choice. And don't let any "trolls" give you grief over the choice of 6.5 Creed. It is a sure sign they haven't done the study they think they have.

Cooper may have had an unabashed bias for .30 caliber, but the proper cambering for a Scout isn't based on caliber, but some specific guidelines for capability. Which the 6.5 Creed can deliver on.

[splithoof]

Originally Posted by 1859sharps

Good man, good choice. And don't let any "trolls" give you grief over the choice of 6.5 Creed. It is a sure sign they haven't done the study they think they have.

Cooper may have had an unabashed bias for .30 caliber, but the proper cambering for a Scout isn't based on caliber, but some specific guidelines for capability. Which the 6.5 Creed can deliver on.

Research will show that Cooper did in fact approve of other calibers, such as the 7mm-08, and others. In today’s world, new propellants and bullet construction technology have opened up possibilities that were not yet fully realized back in the 1980’s, and so have materials of which rifles and accessories are made of. While Cooper is generally credited with getting the scout rifle concept started, IMO it is Richard Mann who has kept it going, and has done very well at it.

[200Apples]

Joe, good call. Congrats on your purchase!

Since I already own a .308 Ruger M77 Gunsite Scout (that misses weight, but just, since I dropped it's 17.25" [FH removed], blued action into a Ruger composite stock), I will! when the opportunity presents itself purchase a 6.5 Creedmore-chambered Steyr Scout. Always wanted one.

[joefrank64k]

Originally Posted by 200Apples

Joe, good call. Congrats on your purchase!

Since I already own a .308 Ruger M77 Gunsite Scout (that misses weight, but just, since I dropped it's 17.25" [FH removed], blued action into a Ruger composite stock), I will! when the opportunity presents itself purchase a 6.5 Creedmore-chambered Steyr Scout. Always wanted one.

Thanks…I might have one for sale, haha!!

I ordered from online dealer #1. Got an email about an hour later saying the rifle was backordered, that my order had been cancelled and fully refunded.

Ok, NBD. Moved on to online dealer #2, placed the order, all is good.

Got an email from dealer #1 saying there was a mistake, the rifle wasn’t backordered, and it would be shipping shortly.

Reached out to dealer #2 to see if they could cancel. They said they’d try, but as the rifle was being drop-shipped from the distributor, cancellation was unlikely.

Haven’t got any updates due to the weekend and holiday.

So I might be the proud owner of TWO odg Steyr Scouts in 6.5CR haha!!

[smle-man]

I had a clip slot adapter for my model 70 that attached via the factory screw holes for a factory scope mount and used M14 type clips. Don't know if these are still available.

[1859sharps]

Originally Posted by splithoof

Research will show that Cooper did in fact approve of other calibers, such as the 7mm-08, and others. In today’s world, new propellants and bullet construction technology have opened up possibilities that were not yet fully realized back in the 1980’s, and so have materials of which rifles and accessories are made of. While Cooper is generally credited with getting the scout rifle concept started, IMO it is Richard Mann who has kept it going, and has done very well at it.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by joefrank64k

So I might be the proud owner of TWO odg Steyr Scouts in 6.5CR haha!!

Well as you know, two is one, and one is none.

Also, you need two rifles for the little known, very, very, very rarely discussed, and highly challenging "dual rifle bounce" drill that requires dual wielding a matching brace of scout rifles.

[hambam105]

M1As, anyone rifle that I've seen, are, last I looked, come with detachable magazines and, get this, have a stripper clip slot.