Coming To Your Church? Loss of 503(c) Status Unless Homosexuals Can Marry There

[socal m1 shooter]

I didn't expect to see this so soon:

Senate officially passes marriage-defiling "Respect for Marriage Act" without amendments protecting religious liberty

Originally Posted by Not The Bee

Welp, there you have it.

With the help of a dozen RINO republicans, the same who voted to move the bill along earlier this month, the US is now going to put the redefinition of marriage to include homosexual relations into law.

This means it's about to be open season on you and your churches if you (and God Almighty) think two men or two women or – coming soon, any subjective combination of people, animals, and objects – can't be "married."

[...]

I expect that it won't be long before the feds start denying 503(c) status to churches who refuse to marry couples which are not a man and a woman. This means any donations made to that church can't be written off as charitable giving.

There is a little backstory that I am aware of; a couple weeks ago a conservative Twitter account tweeted:

Originally Posted by Kambree

I got confused over the same sex marriage bill. I thought it was already legal. My cousin is gay and he got married years ago, so I looked into the bill. Ahhh, it will allow the IRS, to revoke the tax-exempt status of churches that hold fast to traditional marriage.

They were corrected, and it was reported (by at least one leftist propaganda outlet) that there were some changes which would protect churches:

Originally Posted by Time Magazine, a.k.a. the PRAVDA of the west

In order to get at least 10 Republicans on board, the bipartisan coalition of Senators backing the bill added an amendment that would clarify that the law will not compel nonprofit religious organizations to provide services, accommodations, facilities, or goods for a celebration of a same-sex marriage. The amendment also confirms that existing religious liberty protections under the Constitution and federal law are unaffected by the measure, and states that the bill would not authorize the federal government to recognize polygamous marriages, after some conservative advocates had argued it would. The amendment also states that the bill will not be used to deny or alter any benefit, including tax-exempt status, to an otherwise eligible person or entity.

Romney, who voted to advance the bill, told TIME that the amendment was “essential” for earning his vote, and added it provides “key religious liberty protections.” (On Tuesday night, officials in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced that the church was supporting the Respect for Marriage Act. It was a notable shift by the church, of which Romney is a prominent member, given it supported efforts in 2008 to ban same-sex marriage in California.) Portman, who backed the bill and was the first sitting Republican Senator to support same-sex marriage in 2013, says he thinks the religious exemptions language helped sway other Republicans to support the bill as well.

But, at best those GOPe worthless people got tricked.

[bugsy714]

I hope you know how ignorant you sound when you equate to people who love each other to a person who wants to marry an object or an animal

you undermine your own position with that level of stupid

[socal m1 shooter]

Originally Posted by bugsy714

I hope you know how ignorant you sound when you equate to people who love each other to a person who wants to marry an object or an animal

you undermine your own position with that level of stupid

You can plainly see that I did not write a single word about marrying objects or animals.

In addition to providing a good example of the "when you have no argument, abuse the plaintiff" bromide in action, you appear to be projecting, something which leftists often seem to do.

[bugsy714]

Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter

You can plainly see that I did not write a single word about marrying objects or animals.

In addition to providing a good example of the "when you have no argument, abuse the plaintiff" bromide in action, you appear to be projecting, something which leftists often seem to do.

Yes correct I was overcome by the stupidity of the argument and missed that you didn’t make it but rather cited it

[Tikka3x]

Originally Posted by bugsy714

Yes correct I was overcome by the my stupidity of the argument and missed that you didn’t make it but rather cited it

Fixed it for you.

[32spoke]

Sputter might freak out

[eta34]

We continue to pray for our leaders as the Bible commands. We continue to tithe regardless of the tax implications.

[Barang]

they are not just rinos but also suckers! going along with demonic policies of dems.

[Aeneas]

And the beast continues to grow in power. Great timing with the 87,000 new IRS agents...

[Barang]

Originally Posted by Aeneas

And the beast continues to grow in power. Great timing with the 87,000 new IRS agents...

yep! that's what they are for!

[Kokopelli]

Coming To Your Church? Loss of 503(c) Status Unless Homosexuals Can Marry There

Looks like Biblical, Christ following churches will be losing their 503(c) status.

1 Peter 4:12-19

Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And,

“If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”

So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

[Dirtlaw]

Originally Posted by Aeneas

And the beast continues to grow in power. Great timing with the 87,000 new IRS agents...

And then there is this:


"IRS warns Americans about $600 threshold to report Venmo, Cash App payments"

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/...h-app-payments


Couple that with the idea no financial transaction without chips in the hand or forehead and pretty soon the government will control it all.


Many will feel grateful if the beast leaves them 10% of whatever they make through their labor.

[32spoke]

Originally Posted by Dirtlaw

And then there is this:


"IRS warns Americans about $600 threshold to report Venmo, Cash App payments"

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/...h-app-payments


Couple that with the idea no financial transaction without chips in the hand or forehead and pretty soon the government will control it all.


Many will feel grateful if the beast leaves them 10% of whatever they make through their labor.

The article expresses that this impacts a business type of transaction only-

The new rule only applies to payments received for goods and services transactions, meaning that using Venmo or PayPal to send a loved one a gift, pay your roommate rent, or reimburse a friend for dinner will be excluded. Also excluded is anyone who receives money from selling a personal item at a loss; for example, if you purchased a couch for $300 and sold it for $250, the amount is not taxable.

"This doesn't include things like paying your family or friends back using PayPal or Venmo for dinner, gifts, shared trips," PayPal previously said.

[Dirtlaw]

Originally Posted by 32spoke

The article expresses that this impacts a business type of transaction only-

The new rule only applies to payments received for goods and services transactions, meaning that using Venmo or PayPal to send a loved one a gift, pay your roommate rent, or reimburse a friend for dinner will be excluded. Also excluded is anyone who receives money from selling a personal item at a loss; for example, if you purchased a couch for $300 and sold it for $250, the amount is not taxable.

"This doesn't include things like paying your family or friends back using PayPal or Venmo for dinner, gifts, shared trips," PayPal previously said.

I understand. And you are right, it's only an issue for the sellers (or whomever the IRS deems to be a seller). But the point I was trying to make is that the government beast is hungry and its looking for whatever it can eat ... be it earned through disallowance of the charitable exemption or through more efficient taxation of business transactions. I suspect we may soon see changes to estate taxation as well.

[socal m1 shooter]

Originally Posted by Dirtlaw

[...] But the point I was trying to make is that the government beast is hungry and its looking for whatever it can eat ... be it earned through disallowance of the charitable exemption or through more efficient taxation of business transactions.[...]

Is there a level of government-- city, county, state, whatever-- that wouldn't like to tax churches in some fashion? Even if it is basically beyond dispute that doing so would only slightly move the revenue needle, the idea is still very appealing to many pols, if only to help quell opposition.

Eric Metaxas (the writer, who wrote well-received biographies of Luther and Dietrich Bonhoeffer) has recently been arguing that the American church is at a similar inflection point as the German church was around 1933, when the Nazis came to power. He has a new book out on this topic, and in various appearances, has been making the point that the church needs courage right now, and can't be silent; if we sow the wind with our silence, we will reap the whirlwind later. The jacket of the book summarizes what he has been saying pretty well:

Originally Posted by Eric Metaxas, Letter to the American Church

Can it really be God’s will that His children be silent at a time like this? Decrying the cowardice that masquerades as godly meekness, Eric Metaxas summons the Church to battle.

The author of a bestselling biography of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Metaxas reveals the haunting similarities between today’s American Church and the German Church of the 1930s. Echoing the German martyr’s prophetic call, he exhorts his fellow Christians to repent of their silence in the face of evil.

An attenuated and unbiblical “faith” based on what Bonhoeffer called “cheap grace” has sapped the spiritual vitality of millions of Americans. Paying lip service to an insipid “evangelism,” they shrink from combating the evils of our time. Metaxas refutes the pernicious lie that fighting evil politicizes Christianity. As Bonhoeffer and other heroes of the faith insisted, the Church has an irreplaceable role in the culture of a nation. It is our duty to fight the powers of darkness, especially on behalf of the weak and vulnerable.

Silence is not an option. God calls us to defend the unborn, to confront the lies of cultural Marxism, and to battle the globalist tyranny that crushes human freedom. Confident that this is His fight, the Church must overcome fear and enter the fray, armed with the spiritual weapons of prayer, self-sacrifice, and love.

Who doesn't see that the hostility of the left, the party of death, to faithful churches has been increasing? Many have long expected the 503(c) status to eventually be stripped away. The church I attend changed their bylaws more than a decade ago, effectively stating that they can only perform marriage when the couple is one man and one woman. In part this was a defense against potential future litigation, but also to take a stand, seeing what was on the horizon.

I expect churches which remain faithful to the Word of God will have their tax-privileged status steadily undermined going forward. One collateral benefit might be that false churches will be more easily identified; some (Tim Keller, at least) have suggested that the church would do well to study the first century church as presented in Acts, as in this video (just after 20 minutes in).

[M76]

Does the bill mention mosks too?

[Barang]

Originally Posted by M76

Does the bill mention mosks too?

even if it did, they'll just use "all faiths" but in reality, targeting the Chrisitans exclusively. heck! the chrisitan baker in colorado, florist in dc and other states are targeted by the gub for refusing to cater to lgbtqwxyz.

[socal m1 shooter]

The bill was sponsored by Jerry Nadler (D-NY), for crying out loud. In my view, that tells you quite a bit about what may be in it.

But I am not trained as a lawyer, and that link shows you the text of the bill, and a whole bunch of other text you'd have to wade through-- 20 amendments, buried in links-- to understand what it really will mean when signed by the installed occupant of the White House.

Originally Posted by bugsy714

Yes correct I was overcome by the stupidity of the argument and missed that you didn’t make it but rather cited it

Since you mentioned this, twice, may I ask what is so stupid about it? Please, clue me in.

[M76]

Didn’t Nadler sponsor a bill allowing illegal aliens to gain citizenship through gay marriage a few years back?

[Dirtlaw]

Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter

Is there a level of government-- city, county, state, whatever-- that wouldn't like to tax churches in some fashion? Even if it is basically beyond dispute that doing so would only slightly move the revenue needle, the idea is still very appealing to many pols, if only to help quell opposition.

Eric Metaxas (the writer, who wrote well-received biographies of Luther and Dietrich Bonhoeffer) has recently been arguing that the American church is at a similar inflection point as the German church was around 1933, when the Nazis came to power. He has a new book out on this topic, and in various appearances, has been making the point that the church needs courage right now, and can't be silent; if we sow the wind with our silence, we will reap the whirlwind later. The jacket of the book summarizes what he has been saying pretty well:



Who doesn't see that the hostility of the left, the party of death, to faithful churches has been increasing? Many have long expected the 503(c) status to eventually be stripped away. The church I attend changed their bylaws more than a decade ago, effectively stating that they can only perform marriage when the couple is one man and one woman. In part this was a defense against potential future litigation, but also to take a stand, seeing what was on the horizon.

I expect churches which remain faithful to the Word of God will have their tax-privileged status steadily undermined going forward. One collateral benefit might be that false churches will be more easily identified; some (Tim Keller, at least) have suggested that the church would do well to study the first century church as presented in Acts, as in this video (just after 20 minutes in).

Ultimately courage is another word for faith / trust. If you are convinced that God is ultimately in charge you can stand in the fire and still feel safe. At the moment my faith is too weak, but I know that adequate faith is within my reach. I strive to reach that place.

[Aeneas]

Originally Posted by Barang

yep! that's what they are for!

Originally Posted by Dirtlaw

And then there is this:


"IRS warns Americans about $600 threshold to report Venmo, Cash App payments"

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/...h-app-payments


Couple that with the idea no financial transaction without chips in the hand or forehead and pretty soon the government will control it all.


Many will feel grateful if the beast leaves them 10% of whatever they make through their labor.

Absolutely. Anyone who can't see that this allows them to increase their powers of coercion over the populace is blind. They tried to force you out of modern society for not complying with their illegal Covid shot mandate. Thankfully, SCOTUS let them know that they don't have the authority to do such things. However, they will use other avenues and will continue to clamp down until the price paid for not complying is very high.

[RAMCLAP]

This will be a chance to really separate ourselves fron the populace. To stand strong for the Gospel in the face of evil. This is awesome. Praise God.

[MrTokarev]

Won’t this still have to pass in the house of representatives?

[Garand Hunter]

Both House and senate and prez signature.

Psalm 1

[colossians323]

Originally Posted by Kokopelli

Looks like Biblical, Christ following churches will be losing their 503(c) status.

We saw how few there were with dot guv shut down.
The North American Churches faith is weak

[BakoJ]

Originally Posted by bugsy714

I hope you know how ignorant you sound when you equate to people who love each other to a person who wants to marry an object or an animal

you undermine your own position with that level of stupid

I can see why you'd be frustrated with the implication. However, I'd like to point to recent developments in which the media, activists and others have sought to normalize things that are morally wrong to Christians.

Pedophiles becoming "minor attracted people" are being normalized. Check out what's happening in Asia, where in some countries, humans are marrying inanimate objects and animals.

Churches being forced into adherence of social "advancements" will only destroy faith based organizations and lead to more secular society. It's the destruction of faith in real time. What about the rights of believers? Where does it stop?

[spectralhunter]

I don’t like it but perhaps our complacency has brought us to this point. Maybe the US is so comfortable that we have forgotten how dependent we are on Christ?

Suffering will separate the wheat from the chaff. I don’t like it. I’m not happy about it. But I have to trust it will make the Church stronger and more faithful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[spectralhunter]

Originally Posted by RAMCLAP

This will be a chance to really separate ourselves fron the populace. To stand strong for the Gospel in the face of evil. This is awesome. Praise God.

Brother your faith is definitely stronger than mine. I know struggle brings refinement but I don’t welcome it. You are ahead of me in sanctification.

But yes. Always Praise God.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[bugsy714]

Originally Posted by BakoJ

I can see why you'd be frustrated with the implication. However, I'd like to point to recent developments in which the media, activists and others have sought to normalize things that are morally wrong to Christians.

Pedophiles becoming "minor attracted people" are being normalized. Check out what's happening in Asia, where in some countries, humans are marrying inanimate objects and animals.

Churches being forced into adherence of social "advancements" will only destroy faith based organizations and lead to more secular society. It's the destruction of faith in real time. What about the rights of believers? Where does it stop?

And I agree with you that if it’s against the tenants of the religious organization then you can’t really force them to change their religious beliefs to accommodate these sorts of things

[socal m1 shooter]

The bill was approved by the house with 39 republicans voting yes. It now goes to the installed occupant of the White House.

The linked article has a list of those republicans who voted yes.

[cbr9290318]

Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter

The bill was approved by the house with 39 republicans voting yes. It now goes to the installed occupant of the White House.

The linked article has a list of those republicans who voted yes.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[colossians323]

Originally Posted by RAMCLAP

This will be a chance to really separate ourselves fron the populace. To stand strong for the Gospel in the face of evil. This is awesome. Praise God.

This is true, but we had our chance with the lock downs and failed.
I believe as we live in this post Christian society that we will see the strong grow stronger in their Fatih and witness and the weak continue to shed.
Wheat and chaff

[skilletboy]

Originally Posted by bugsy714

I hope you know how ignorant you sound when you equate to people who love each other to a person who wants to marry an object or an animal

you undermine your own position with that level of stupid

I'll gladly wear your insults like a crown for holding to the truth that homosexuality and beastiality are similar cousins of a disordered sexuality, rooted in the degeneration of humanity's sin and are both against what God claims is the proper, whole and natural use of our sexuality.

[skilletboy]

Also gonna add this... I would have a hard time seeing this pass scrutiny in the SCOTUS. IF this is utilized in this way that houses of faith are REQUIRED to perform gay marriages, it's gonna get slam dunked in the courts IMO. I think even some of the liberal justices would destroy it.

Congress can pass any law it wants sure, but it still has to be constitutional. Unless they want to amend the constitution itself?

[Full Clip]

Maybe I missed it...
This would equally apply to mosques and synagogues, yes?

[Kokopelli]

Originally Posted by Full Clip

Maybe I missed it...
This would equally apply to mosques and synagogues, yes?

Yes.

[Barang]

^^^ but christians will be targeted intensely while the other two will be spared.

[Kokopelli]

Originally Posted by Barang

^^^ but christians will be targeted intensely while the other two will be spared.

Yes. That is the objective. Attack the Judeo-Christian beliefs as being intolerant and illegal. Then start banning Bibles because the scriptures call such acts sin.

[socal m1 shooter]

Originally Posted by Kokopelli

Yes. That is the objective. Attack the Judeo-Christian beliefs as being intolerant and illegal. Then start banning Bibles because the scriptures call such acts sin.

I'm skeptical that a Bible ban is up there on the priority list of the enemy.

Most self-identifying Christians in North America and other affluent nations seldom, if ever, read their Bibles. J. Vernon McGee passed back in the late 1980s and even then, more than 30 years ago, he said/wrote over and over that the greatest sin in the church was the Christian person sitting in the pew who was content to let their pastor/clergy tell them what is in the Bible.

I think Satan is far more interested in getting the woke pathogen to infect various churches, particularly the ones which faithfully preach the Word of God.

[skilletboy]

Originally Posted by socal m1 shooter

I'm skeptical that a Bible ban is up there on the priority list of the enemy.

Most self-identifying Christians in North America and other affluent nations seldom, if ever, read their Bibles. J. Vernon McGee passed back in the late 1980s and even then, more than 30 years ago, he said/wrote over and over that the greatest sin in the church was the Christian person sitting in the pew who was content to let their pastor/clergy tell them what is in the Bible.

I think Satan is far more interested in getting the woke pathogen to infect various churches, particularly the ones which faithfully preach the Word of God.

Mostly I agree with you on your points...

However something that has given me pause in recent years is this; just think about how far the church and the nation has slid in the last 5-10 years. Things we couldn't imagine being "normalized" are considered such today.

I shudder to think where we could be in another quick 5-10 years.

My wife and I have been talking about this a lot in the last year, that as kids growing up in the church in the 80's it was hard to imagine what we were told the "end times" would be like. How people could turn on each other in their own families, how murder would be so rampant and sexual deviancy would be on the rise, and how willing people would be to go with some world order to their destruction.... after the last 5-10 years, it's not hard to imagine anymore. It's plain as day.