Baptism

[y-not]

Can a person who has not been water baptized, but has faith in God and believes that Christ Jesus was born in the flesh, was without sin, died on the cross paying the price no one else could for the forgiveness of sin, rose on the third day, was glorified, and now sits at the right hand of God representing us today, enter into Heaven ?

[eta34]

Yes

[Dirtlaw]

Baptism. A divisive issue to be sure. Heaven inspired no doubt. But the beliefs on its parameters have historically divided the body. In particular baptism of the very young. Op raises a different question. Is it necessary? Here all I can say is that it is our command. Go ye thereforth and baptize. Here is what I know and believe. Jesus died for my sins. He is my savior.

[Wordupmybrotha]

Of course

[9Cal_OC]

Sure, y-not.

[Barang]

yes. here is the but .... if you love God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, you will be obedient. you show your faith through your works.

[1911RONIN]

Baptism should not be a problem for actual believers. Refusal to be baptized suggests unbelief despite what a person says. Though, The thief on the cross shows it to be unnecessary, but those were extraordinary circumstances.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NavCop]

Baptism is a public declaration of the state of one's heart; it is not necessary to enter into heaven but should be accepted when possible. Remember the thief on the cross - Jesus assured him that he would see heaven, and he was not baptized.

[Garand Hunter]

YES ! Read St Paul's letters.

Psalm 1

[y-not]

So if the "original" water baptism given by John the Baptist was for the repentance of sin.
Christ Jesus baptism was with the Holy Spirit.
Is water baptism, after His accention and the sending of the Holy Spirit, any different than John's baptism today ?

[Kokopelli]

Yes. The thief on the cross next to Jesus was never baptized and yet believed in Him. He entered the kingdom of God.

See Luke 23:39-43

[Barang]

the thief at the cross had a good excuse but what about those who are freely walking and have not done so. what excuse do they have?

[y-not]

Originally Posted by Barang

the thief at the cross had a good excuse but what about those who are freely walking and have not done so. what excuse do they have?

The thief had no "excuse", didn't need one, because his whole life was for that moment
for all of us to see the awesomeness of the love of God.

[IronsightsRifleman]

John 3 - Now there was a certain man among the Pharisees, Nicodemus by name, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus at night, and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that thou hast come a teacher from God, for no one can work these signs that thou workest unless God be with him." Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Many call themselves Christians because they were once baptized by their parents, yet they will not see the Kingdom because they were never born again.

[y-not]

Originally Posted by IronsightsRifleman

born again.

That is another topic for later.

[y-not]

Originally Posted by IronsightsRifleman

John 3 - Now there was a certain man among the Pharisees, Nicodemus by name, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus at night, and said to him, "Rabbi, we know that thou hast come a teacher from God, for no one can work these signs that thou workest unless God be with him." Jesus answered and said to him, "Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Many call themselves Christians because they were once baptized by their parents, yet they will not see the Kingdom because they were never born again.

Agreed

[Barang]

Originally Posted by y-not

The thief had no "excuse", didn't need one, because his whole life was for that moment
for all of us to see the awesomeness of the love of God.

the thief at the cross couldn't come down unless the nails were removed so he had a good excuse not to get baptized. but what about the rest who are able to get immersed in the water but have not done so? if Jesus done it, why can't we follow our Master and be obedient to what he commanded:
Matthew 28:19 nkjv
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

[Kokopelli]

Originally Posted by Barang

the thief at the cross had a good excuse but what about those who are freely walking and have not done so. what excuse do they have?

Baptism is not a requirement for salvation.

In 2019, I was driving with my wife one morning. I heard The Holy Spirit say, “Go see Robert!” He had been in the hospital and was dying.

Robert had been witnessed to all his life. All 85 years, yet he remained agnostic. When I arrived at the hospital, the nurses said he is aware of who people are, but he cannot speak. He was hooked up to all kinds of machines.

I held his hand and asked him to squeeze my hand, once for “yes” and twice for “no.” He knew who I was. I asked if he understood that he was on the edge of eternity and he did. I told him that Jesus is still hope at this point. I asked if he would like to receive Christ as savior and salvation for his soul. He said yes. I said the sinner’s prayer for Robert, as he could not talk. He acknowledged. Three hours later, Robert was home with his Savior.

Don’t wait. Tomorrow May be too late.

“…because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.” Romans 10:9-10

[Barang]

Originally Posted by Kokopelli

Baptism is not a requirement for salvation.

In 2019, I was driving with my wife one morning. I heard The Holy Spirit say, “Go see Robert!” He had been in the hospital and was dying.

Robert had been witnessed to all his life. All 85 years, yet he remained agnostic. When I arrived at the hospital, the nurses said he is aware of who people are, but he cannot speak. He was hooked up to all kinds of machines.

I held his hand and asked him to squeeze my hand, once for “yes” and twice for “no.” He knew who I was. I asked if he understood that he was on the edge of eternity and he did. I told him that Jesus is still hope at this point. I asked if he would like to receive Christ as savior and salvation for his soul. He said yes. I said the prayer for Robert, as he could not talk. He acknowledged. Three hours later, Robert was home with his Savior.

Don’t wait. Tomorrow May be too late.

“…because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.” Romans 10:9-10

i know it's not a requirement and some people were in a condition where they are not able to do so like robert and the thief at the cross. but my question is about those who are able, why are they not following Jesus' example? if our Lord get baptized, shouldn't we do the same as His follower?

[y-not]

Originally Posted by Barang

if our Lord get baptized, shouldn't we do the same as His follower?

Why did Christ Jesus get baptized ?
If it wasn't for the repentance of sin, which he had none, was it to fufill prophesy ?
I do not ask these questions to place doubt in anyones faith. Be the Bereean.
I ask to gain understanding of what I do not know.
Please take no offence in my questions.

[billvau]

Originally Posted by y-not

Can a person who has not been water baptized, but has faith in God and believes that Christ Jesus was born in the flesh, was without sin, died on the cross paying the price no one else could for the forgiveness of sin, rose on the third day, was glorified, and now sits at the right hand of God representing us today, enter into Heaven ?

Questions: Do YOU believe that you are a sinner that would go to hell without salvation? Second, do you believe that salvation is a free gift of Jesus Christ for sinners?

I'm asking because the way you wrote above doesn't make clear that you understand your eternal destiny without salvation through Jesus Christ AND that you have to accept His FREE gift of salvation from your sins to have eternal life. IOW, you can't earn salvation, you don't have to be baptized to get into heaven, and I'll add - you understand salvation is all of GRACE (i.e. underserved) from Christ.

I really would like to hear your answers. Believe me, they are standard questions I asked everyone who says that they are a Christian!

To answer your question, it's a "Yes, but..." answer. Yes, you can get into heaven without baptism. Ask the thief on the cross (seriously!). The "BUT" it is COMMANDED by Christ to testify to our salvation and share something about Christ saved us. So, even though awkward, we all do it. The easiest thing to do is to write your testimony and have your pastor help you word it clearly. Then just read it before you get baptized. It's over before you know it and the celebration is something you'll always remember.

Blessings!

[y-not]

Originally Posted by billvau

Questions: Do YOU believe that you are a sinner that would go to hell without salvation?

YES

Originally Posted by billvau

Questions: do you believe that salvation is a free gift of Jesus Christ for sinners?

YES

[Barang]

Originally Posted by y-not

Why did Christ Jesus get baptized ?
If it wasn't for the repentance of sin, which he had none, was it to fufill prophesy ?
I do not ask these questions to place doubt in anyones faith. Be the Bereean.
I ask to gain understanding of what I do not know.
Please take no offence in my questions.

no offence taken. it's good to have this debate to sharpen our knowledge of God's word. as long as we stay civil then it's all good.

Jesus was sinless but when He took our sins, He became sin and had to suffer and die horribly to pay for it.

Matthew 28:19 nkjv
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
in Jesus own words, what is the problem and resistance in obeying Him? i keep coming back to this verse because it seems clear to me what Jesus command is, Go! if it's not important no to get baptized, He would have left that word out but He didn't.

[billvau]

Originally Posted by y-not

YES


YES

BEST POSSIBLE ANSWERS! Love to hear that! I get excited every time I know some is truly saved. Thanks for answering!

Please get baptized. You don't have to do it in front of thousands. Family and friends is fine!

Blessings!

[y-not]

Originally Posted by y-not

Why did Christ Jesus get baptized ?
If it wasn't for the repentance of sin, which he had none, was it to fufill prophesy ?
I do not ask these questions to place doubt in anyones faith. Be the Bereean.
I ask to gain understanding of what I do not know.
Please take no offence in my questions.

Were the 12 Diciples baptized by water ? I cannot find anything in the Scriptures about it.
They were by the Holy Spirit during Pentacost after Christ Jesus accended.

[Barang]

Originally Posted by y-not

Were the 12 Diciples baptized by water ? I cannot find anything in the Scriptures about it.
They were by the Holy Spirit during Pentacost after Christ Jesus accended.

read below: do you think they were baptizing people but excluded themselves? that would be a bad example they're setting and be called hypocrites if they skipped that part. just look at the pattern of people accepting Jesus as their Lord and baptism was done after their conversion.

John 4:1-2 nkjv
Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2 (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

Mark 1:4 nkjv
John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

[y-not]

Originally Posted by Barang

read below: do you think they were baptizing people but excluded themselves? that would be a bad example they're setting and be called hypocrites if they skipped that part. just look at the pattern of people accepting Jesus as their Lord and baptism was done after their conversion.

John 4:1-2 nkjv
Therefore, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John 2 (though Jesus Himself did not baptize, but His disciples),

Mark 1:4 nkjv
John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

So then John did the baptizing of atleast 1 or all ( who knows) of the 12 disciples and the others were baptized by the one(s) that John baptized. Is that correct?

[MrBlond]

"By your FAITH, you are saved."

[Barang]

Originally Posted by y-not

So then John did the baptizing of atleast 1 or all ( who knows) of the 12 disciples and the others were baptized by the one(s) that John baptized. Is that correct?

i don't know who baptized who. all i know is that several verses above and some more below make a convincing argument that they were baptized. i think that's enough verses to prove that baptism is not something you just ignore but out of obedience and love for God, you do it.

Acts 2:38 nkjv
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the [a]remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 6:4 nkjv
Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Acts 2:41 nkjv
Then those who [a]gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.

[y-not]

Originally Posted by Barang

Acts 2:38 nkjv
Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the [a]remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Thank you for this verse. It was the one that was missing, It put all the pieces together for me.

What do we talk about next ? ? ?

[Dirtlaw]

Originally Posted by billvau

Questions: Do YOU believe that you are a sinner that would go to hell without salvation? Second, do you believe that salvation is a free gift of Jesus Christ for sinners?

I'm asking because the way you wrote above doesn't make clear that you understand your eternal destiny without salvation through Jesus Christ AND that you have to accept His FREE gift of salvation from your sins to have eternal life. IOW, you can't earn salvation, you don't have to be baptized to get into heaven, and I'll add - you understand salvation is all of GRACE (i.e. underserved) from Christ.

I really would like to hear your answers. Believe me, they are standard questions I asked everyone who says that they are a Christian!

To answer your question, it's a "Yes, but..." answer. Yes, you can get into heaven without baptism. Ask the thief on the cross (seriously!). The "BUT" it is COMMANDED by Christ to testify to our salvation and share something about Christ saved us. So, even though awkward, we all do it. The easiest thing to do is to write your testimony and have your pastor help you word it clearly. Then just read it before you get baptized. It's over before you know it and the celebration is something you'll always remember.

Blessings!

Pastor raises an important point. Whenever you start thinking that salvation depends on your acts, you risk moving towards a mentality that somehow salvation is something that you have earned. Salvation was completed when the Lord died for us and thereby conquered death. Salvation is a free gift. I know I'm splitting hairs a bit, but I do believe that it is important to recognize that you could never earn salvation (even though feeling that it all revolves around you appeals to our human nature).

[VMCJ-3]

My Mom had been raised a Catholic, but had abandoned the church decades before. She had been witnessed to numerous times over the years, by myself and the lovely MrsVMCJ-3.
It wasn't until she was in the hospital, dying from lung cancer that she accepted Jesus into her heart. This was no "deathbed conversion", but we were given the opportunity to see a change in her life that was nothing short of amazing.
She was a "5 o'clock laborer" that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 20:6 who was never baptized, but absolutely received salvation.
I look forward to seeing her again in Heaven.

[Barang]

Originally Posted by y-not

Thank you for this verse. It was the one that was missing, It put all the pieces together for me.

What do we talk about next ? ? ?

your welcome. glad to hear you made the connection.

what to talk about next? .... are we in the last days? once saved always saved? are you trying to blow up this sub-forum?

[Timthetwin]

Yes, the man on the cross next to Jesus did it get baptized but was told he would be in heaven

[y-not]

I would think there would be a sticky about the basics of salvation and a few things about
who God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit is.
Kinda like an introduction in the hopes that someone that doesn't know, my "stumble" on this sub-forum.
Sounds like there are a few Pastors on board here that can do this.

[2761377]

Originally Posted by VMCJ-3

My Mom had been raised a Catholic, but had abandoned the church decades before. She had been witnessed to numerous times over the years, by myself and the lovely MrsVMCJ-3.
It wasn't until she was in the hospital, dying from lung cancer that she accepted Jesus into her heart. This was no "deathbed conversion", but we were given the opportunity to see a change in her life that was nothing short of amazing.
She was a "5 o'clock laborer" that Jesus spoke of in Matthew 20:6 who was never baptized, but absolutely received salvation.
I look forward to seeing her again in Heaven.

well then, she had been baptized into union with Christ.

the elephant in the room- why is OP resisting baptism? I think a would-be Christian should be thirsting for it.

[billvau]

Originally Posted by Dirtlaw

Pastor raises an important point. Whenever you start thinking that salvation depends on your acts, you risk moving towards a mentality that somehow salvation is something that you have earned. Salvation was completed when the Lord died for us and thereby conquered death. Salvation is a free gift. I know I'm splitting hairs a bit, but I do believe that it is important to recognize that you could never earn salvation (even though feeling that it all revolves around you appeals to our human nature).

Amen!

[MrTokarev]

Originally Posted by 2761377

well then, she had been baptized into union with Christ.

the elephant in the room- why is OP resisting baptism? I think a would-be Christian should be thirsting for it.

I think that’s a good point. Something that often gets lost in these discussions is that faith and works are inseparably intertwined; works before faith are meaningless and faith without works is dead.

An atheist getting baptized as a joke gains nothing from it.

However, if you have faith in Jesus you will want to follow what He commands and He commands that believers be baptized.

The poster who answered “can you be saved without being baptized,” gave the best answer with “yes but.”

The early church used the expression “baptized by fire,” to describe Christians martyred by the Romans before they could be baptized by water. There was no question that a new convert, willing to die in any number of horrible ways for Christ, was saved. However, under normal circumstances, a Christian is expected to participate in baptism as Christ commanded and should desire it as an act of obedience to Christ’s will over their own.

Can someone be saved without baptism? Yes, but without extreme circumstances involved such as martyrdom or deathbed conversion, a convert unwilling to partake in baptism is at best a red flag.

[colossians323]

Church of Christ members will tell you no.

When I was a baby Christian I was challenged that I was not saved because I was not baptized.
I did a study on baptism and salvation.

It appears you don't have to be baptized to be saved (thief on cross, bleeding lady).
Having said what others have already said. Obedience to Christ should drive you to want to be baptized.
Once I completed my study and was baptized, I went back to the person who challenged me. I was now told my baptism did not count because I wasn't baptized in the right church.

Care to guess which church was the right church?

Yep Church of Christ church.

I did a little reading up on them and they shame you in front of the church if you are not giving 10%.
OP if you are not baptized and you believe, follow the example of Christ!

[Dezrat]

The issue goes beyond what many think. Believers seem to have a habit of organizing firing squads in circles. Had to share this tidbit.
At the point in time I had probably Baptized several dozen new Believers and we were having another waterside meet one afternoon. After we concluded a guy comes up and asks "have you always baptized that way, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit?" I told him I was pretty sure that I had. He proceeded to explain that none of the people I had Baptized over the years were actually saved, as I was only supposed to be saying "I Baptize you in the name of Jesus"
What a crushing blow that was....