|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|||||||
| Centerfire Rifles - Manually Operated Lever action, bolt action or other non gas operated centerfire rifles. |
 |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
10-16-2022, 7:35 PM
|
|||
|
|||
So I just bought an original 1873...
Hi All,
I am in the SF Bay Area, and just bought an original 1873 with the fancy flip up sights from the vallejo gun show. It is an early 1890's production, full length, hex barrel, and in 32-20. This is my first 1873, and was wondering if I might be able get some advice about a few things from the experts/fans here. My first question is... is it true that my only real option for ammo is going to be reloading? As is well known, the prices for 32-20 is very high, and most places show no stock. I have never rolled my own with ammo, so that would be a big step. Still, any advice about this, all the way up to which reloading set I should be looking for is much appreciated! Anyone selling something like this here? My second question is about the spec of ammo I need to have. I know that this thing isn't made for ammo that is too hot, but I am not sure if there are particular things to avoid. It seems like all 32-20 has a similar spec that I assume is ok... but is that a bad assumption? What do I need to be careful about? I bought this as a shooter, and was told it is very much a good one, so I assume it is generally up to the task. Lastly, is there anything else I should know? These are incredibly beautiful old rifles that I have lusted after for a long time, but my experience with lever guns is very new. Most of my experience is with more modern semi-auto stuff, and a bit with mauser type bolt actions. This lever thing is all new to me, so I assume that I don't know what I don't know. Anyways, looking forward to your thoughts! Thank you in advance! p.s. If you have ammo for sale, or if you have any modern production winchester 1973 that you want to get rid of, please PM me! *I have added some images, and will add more in the thread below Last edited by prophei; 10-17-2022 at 9:31 AM.. 
|
|
#2
10-16-2022, 7:46 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Its not that we don't believe you, we just want to see the gun. Your either going to pay the price of factory ammo or reload.
__________________
It takes a lot of balls to play golf the way I do. Happiness is a warm gun. MLC, First 3
|
|
#3
10-17-2022, 5:17 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
20gr ffg
|
|
#4
10-17-2022, 6:07 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
It’s sounds nice but we need pictures
|
|
#5
10-17-2022, 6:23 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Yeah trying to "shoot" old calibers pretty much means you need to reload. The 32-20 is a gun I would love to own. I have a couple 218's and a 25-20. Same case but smaller diameters.
Brass is really had to come by right now. I would try gun broker or Starline. I love to reload with black powder but I would probably go with smokeless for this gun. Black can be pretty corrosive unless you do a super through cleaning. I am not a big fan of reloading for other people's (really nice ) guns but if you can find some brass and bullets, I could help you load up however many you need. I have the dies, powder and primers. I am around Sacramento.
|
|
#6
10-17-2022, 6:45 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
I have an original 1873 as well. Saddle ring carbine 32-20.
Ammo issues IMO are multiple. One factory is nigh impossible to get or stupid expensive. Two brass is also hard to find. Three the cases are relatively fragile at the neck. You gotta take your time relatively speaking reloading this Lots of recipes out there. Black powder loads sure but then you gotta clean black powder (yuck). I use a small amount of tite group. It’s pretty accurate honestly and chronos around 900. there are multiple published loads that keep your pressures down and keep it around 900 fps which is what I believe what 20 of BP will give you. that being said, the action on this is an 1873 action. it'll handle 44-40 (BP loads) (edit not 45LC) so it'll probably handle whatever you can actually put in a 32-20 case (again, the brass is a bit on the fragile side). It is a VERY light shooting round. And it’s subsonic. So light shooting that in my colt lightning sometimes only way I know round went off is the “ding” after of the metal 
Last edited by bonesurf; 10-17-2022 at 8:20 AM..
|
|
#7
10-17-2022, 8:18 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
How did the 73 handle 45 colt bp loads?
|
|
#10
10-17-2022, 8:33 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#13
10-17-2022, 10:48 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Quote:
https://leverguns.com/articles/paco/45coltlevergun.htm
__________________
It takes a lot of balls to play golf the way I do. Happiness is a warm gun. MLC, First 3
|
|
#15
10-17-2022, 1:01 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I knew that, and had read comments here before. But, that article sheds a lot of light on why
 Quote:
|
|
#17
10-18-2022, 12:24 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Post a pic of the bottom of the brass lifter, and one of the bolt face, serial number too and I can confirm or correct the DOM on it.
Real common for the cartridge rim support on the bolt face to be broken off, resulting in a jam-o-matic. When the bottom of the lifter is all dinged up, that's from trying to clear a jam, the wrong way. Flip it belly up and you'll see two small screw heads between the lever and lifter. They retain the springs for the lever and the lifter, and are the adjustments for the tension on both too. Out of adjustment, you get jams, and broken cartridge supports, and more jams. The lifter lever is steel, the lifter is brass, the steel wears the brass, without grease in the track, it wears real fast. That's why it has adjustment. When every thing is in working order, the 73 action is still one, that has to be full cycled like you mean it. Short stroke it, it'll jam. They eject empties up, back, and over your head. They eject loaded rounds up, back, and right in the forehead...hard! Don't ask how I know that. Any questions, give me a holler.
|
|
#18
10-18-2022, 9:49 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#19
10-19-2022, 6:14 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Made mid 1891, with 38,901 made that year.
Looks good inside! I never have figured out what they used to bang on the bottom of that lifter with, but they'll all have the same marks. Any luck finding ammo or brass? The Lyman tang and folding Beech sights could well be a factory installed option, a Cody Letter will tell, and your serial number will letter. Last edited by TRAP55; 10-19-2022 at 6:18 PM..
|
|
#20
10-19-2022, 6:28 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
 What is a Cody Letter? Not sure how to check about those sights. I am definitely a novice with these! -m
|
|
#21
10-19-2022, 6:32 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
|
|
#22
10-19-2022, 6:46 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
As far as ammo, somebody here on this site responded to me that he had ammo. I got an email and we chatted back and forth, with my agreeing to buy 12 boxes of 20rd for a total of $400. I apple paid, and then he comes back with a weird story about needing more for shipping, even though the agreement was that he cover it. It suddenly went from feeling really good to really bad. I come back here and see that user has now been blocked. The guy claims he sent the money to a sick relative and needs to wait until he gets paid to send me the ammo. I am pretty much screwed. I got played. I have sent messages to this site in hopes of getting some data, but have had no responses. It became a big mess. I have some friends tracking his data, and have some details, but I will probably never see that money again unless he's being honest and this is the most fraudulent looking honest person on the planet. I'm not feeling good about it. Other than that, I bought a little online. I have a reno address, and was going to shoot out there, so I have a legitimate place to send it without needing an FFL. Now I am down $400 I really didn't have to spend, and got nothing for it. I am considering learning how to reload, but that is a whole new mess of stuff to have to learn and pay for. Options are looking slim though. Would have been easier to buy a system with that $400 I now lack. Oh well.  Sorry for boring you with the details! Last edited by prophei; 10-19-2022 at 7:00 PM..
|
|
#24
10-19-2022, 9:04 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Black is easy to load, has simple tools, hard to screw up, and real black cleans up with soap and water, and is easy on the gun. Just find or make bullets lubed with a black powder lube (SPG or something).
__________________
Calguns.net, where everyone responding to your post is a Navy Force Delta Recon 6 Sniperator.
|
|
#25
10-19-2022, 9:10 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
You might do your fellow calgunners a favor and out the person so nobody else gets ripped off. I'm sorry OP, I wanted to add more and just plan forgot. It sucks that this happened to you. I hope it works out and you get your ammo. You got such a nice gun there and then some a hole comes along and does this. It just pisses me off.
__________________
It takes a lot of balls to play golf the way I do. Happiness is a warm gun. MLC, First 3 Last edited by golfish; 10-19-2022 at 10:33 PM..
|
|
#26
10-19-2022, 11:40 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
prophei, after I last posted, I took a look for a dozen or so rounds I picked up in a trade, found the bag I thought they were in, but it was .32acp, No clue what I did with those rounds, but I think they may have gone to Idaho for a friends '73. Would have told you to come and get em. Reloading, get a Lee Loader, cheap, easy, bench not required. If you've never reloaded before, best tool made to learn the basics.
|
|
#27
10-20-2022, 12:40 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
I would like to, but was going to wait until I got a reply from a moderator. I also am holding out the slim hope that this person makes good before the end of the month, which is the time span they gave. If the impossible happens, and they do, I am hesitant to smear them on the internet. If anyone else is approached by someone in a way that resonates with my situation, I am happy to give more details in a PM to make sure it isn't the same person. I absolutely don't want anyone else getting screwed. I am a huge believer in having integrity, and having this happen here is quite a gut-punch!
|
|
#29
10-20-2022, 12:59 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Do a Google search on either the user name or phone number and see if you don't get hits from the same fellow on other forums. My bet is that you will........ especially if they are a low-count poster.
__________________
Always looking for vintage Winchester and Marlin lever action rifles. Looking to sell? Know of one for sale? Drop me a line! "Give a conservative a pile of bricks and you get a beautiful city. Give a leftist a city and you get a pile of bricks."
|
|
#30
10-20-2022, 1:10 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
|
#31
10-20-2022, 2:16 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
__________________
Always looking for vintage Winchester and Marlin lever action rifles. Looking to sell? Know of one for sale? Drop me a line! "Give a conservative a pile of bricks and you get a beautiful city. Give a leftist a city and you get a pile of bricks."
|
|
#32
10-20-2022, 3:02 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#33
10-20-2022, 3:03 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I shoot a couple of Colt revolvers (1851 Navy and a 1861 Army) and I have a '73 Winchester/Cimarron copy. I've found a lot of useful info in Lyman's Cast Bullet Handbook.https://www.lymanproducts.com/brands...ok-4th-edition
It's more about shooting cast bullets and reloading than just making cast bullets. Also, buy a reloading package, you'll get more bang for your buck. Some of the parts you'll find ain't all that great, but you can pick up better stuff as you go along. And read the reloading manuals and understand them before you get excited and half *** something. A one-pound container equals 7000 grains of powder. A starting load for 115gr. projectile, using Unique, uses 3.6 grains of powder. You don't need 8 pounds of powder to get started.
|
|
#34
10-20-2022, 3:45 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Thanks! Last edited by prophei; 10-20-2022 at 4:22 PM.. Reason: typo
|
|
#35
10-20-2022, 4:16 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Reloading manuals will always speak to you as if you know nothing. Usually they have a burn rate chart in the front. When you look at the loads for a round the powders are listed in order of burn rate. The manual will explain everything.
|
|
#36
10-20-2022, 4:20 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
That is correct. It's known as "burn rate". Generally speaking, the faster burning propellants are used for the popular, common handgun cartridges and as powders trend toward slower-burning they're utilized in the rifle calibers/bottleneck brass. SPECIFICALLY, one should when reloading stick to KNOWN, published recipes only. These can be found in any of the bulletmakers' Handbooks for Reloading. Never! rely on hearsay seen in firearms discussions. ALWAYS stick to published data. Having said that, there are exceptions; the most famous being for .44 Special revolver loads and made popular by a well-known (at the time) gunwriter/retired lawman and friend of Elmer Keith, Charles Alan "Skeeter" Skelton. His preferred load for the .44 Special can be considered a "Heavy" .44 Special load and used in revolvers of known strength and good condition. That load is known in the single-action-revolver world as "Skeeter's Load" and is 7.5 grains of Alliant (brand) Unique (model) gunpowder in .44 Special brass topped off with a 250-grain Keith(-designed) Lead SemiWadCutter bullet. It's good for +/-950 feet per second and is about halfway, ballistically, between the over-the-counter/safe-in-all-old-guns .44 Special (a 246-grain lead round-nose bullet launched from the muzzle at 750 fps) and the blazing .44 Magnum (240 grain bullet @ 1200+ fps - the beginning of painful recoil for some folks). *load data in this post for entertainment purposes only
__________________
. - Well-Regulated - | "Get a proper holster, and go hot. The End." - SplitHoof NRA Lifetime | Avatar courtesy Elon Musk's Twitter User SomthingWicked Last edited by 200Apples; 10-20-2022 at 4:22 PM..
|
|
#38
10-20-2022, 5:24 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Are there any progressive budget reloaders that would work well? One thing I have little of is time, and being able to get through a lot of ammo when I have a chance to sit down is a positive in my book. Thoughts? Am I correct that the turret reloader basically let you rotate the dies to your primary press point, and that the progressive allow for multiple die presses at once?
|
|
#39
10-20-2022, 5:29 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
JMO. Use a turret or single stage. Not a progressive for 32-20. You have to watch the case expansion and bullet seating steps relatively carefully. The necks are relatively fragile
|
|
#40
10-20-2022, 5:35 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
I keep reading good things about this one... https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-7810311.../dp/B071H4MLXW
|
|
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
 |
 |
 |
Linear Mode
