SBR Tax stamp

[Lonwa]

Hey guys,

I will be purchasing a second home in a 2A friendly state in the near future, and was wondering if there is any reason not to start the form 1 now for a couple of my rifles. I will keep them in California normally (in the non-sbr configuration of course), but will take them to the new state to shoot on occasion, and I want them in SBR configuration there, or if I decide to leave them there.

Thoughts? Anything else I should be thinking about before submitting the eform?

Not sure if the ATF will approve these given California gun laws, or if they care.

Thanks

Lonwa

PS: each of these guns are also registered AW in California. Not sure if that is relevant or not. =)

[mej16489]

If a 'responsible party' lives in a state where NFA items are generally prohibited or require a permit, "a copy of the permit or license must be submitted with Form 5320.23"

No, you can't submit an application for where you will reside later, its about where you reside now.

[Lonwa]

I won't be manufacturing the SBR in California, so in theory the permit is not required?

[mej16489]

You make the application using the address of your legal residence. Today that's in CA...so you would need to both have a CA permit and submit it with your application to the ATF.

[rromeo]

E file form 1 will probably take less time than closing on your house that you don't even seem to have picked out yet.

[SkyHawk]

The NFA SBR is still a SBR even with a long barrel temporarily attached, which means you will need permission from ATF to travel to CA with it, which they will not grant.

You need to apply every time you want to move NFA items between states - it does not matter if it is assembled or not, or what configuration it is in.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/16...61582959681623

And ATF is not going to grant you the tax stamp period if you try and apply for the stamp from CA

[sigstroker]

Originally Posted by rromeo

E file form 1 will probably take less time than closing on your house that you don't even seem to have picked out yet.

Yeah, wait till you get an address in the sbr state.

[Lonwa]

Thanks guys.

[beanz2]

Originally Posted by SkyHawk

The NFA SBR is still a SBR even with a long barrel temporarily attached, which means you will need permission from ATF to travel to CA with it, which they will not grant.

You need to apply every time you want to move NFA items between states - it does not matter if it is assembled or not, or what configuration it is in.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/16...61582959681623

And ATF is not going to grant you the tax stamp period if you try and apply for the stamp from CA

I disagree. When he removes the characteristic that makes the rifle a SBR, it is no longer considered a Title 2 by the ATF and he can cross state lines without submitting a 5320.20.

The bigger issue is how the State of California would consider the rifle to be still a prohibited SBR. I believe once Librarian stated that when the parts that make it into SBR is still under the owner’s control, it is still considered a SBR, by the state, regardless of its physical location.

[SkyHawk]

Originally Posted by beanz2

I disagree. When he removes the characteristic that makes the rifle a SBR, it is no longer considered a Title 2 by the ATF and he can cross state lines without submitting a 5320.20.

The bigger issue is how the State of California would consider the rifle to be still a prohibited SBR. I believe once Librarian stated that when the parts that make it into SBR is still under the owner’s control, it is still considered a SBR, by the state, regardless of its physical location.

Yes, it seems the short barrel and it's current location are key to the crossing state lines issue and also perhaps the issue of constructive possession in CA.

He can change the barrel and cross state lines without the 5320 but only *if* if the short barrel stays at the registered location

https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/files...tate-lines.pdf

[Lonwa]

Interesting.

So according to the ATF, if I leave the short barrel in the free state, getting the form 1 now in CA would be fine, and I can transport it back and forth in "non-SBR" config?

We are not sure how CA would perceive this?

[Milsurp1]

Not all NFA items need federal approval to bring across state lines, but as noted above SBRs do.

After you establish residence in a free or free-ish state then you can apply for a stamp.

[SkyHawk]

Originally Posted by Lonwa

Interesting.

So according to the ATF, if I leave the short barrel in the free state, getting the form 1 now in CA would be fine, and I can transport it back and forth in "non-SBR" config?

We are not sure how CA would perceive this?

ATF is not going to approve your form 1 application with a CA address. Divest yourself of that notion right now. You need a permanent address in a free state and then ask yourself why you would ever return to CA with that rifle in any configuration when it would have to be sufficiently CA neutered and lowers that are not NFA registered are $50. Lowers that you did not wait a year+ for a stamp and spend hundreds of dollars on - why would you ever bring that into CA and risk seizure or worse?

I simply don't understand what you are trying to accomplish here. If I ever move to a free state and get SBRs, you can bet I will never entertain the idea of bringing them into CA for any reason in any configuration. If I want to bring a neutered AR into Ca for a visit it will be on a $50 Anderson lower that is not NFA.

If you want SBR - leave CA. If you want to keep SBR - never bring it back to CA. It's a recipe for success!

[mej16489]

Originally Posted by Lonwa

Interesting.

So according to the ATF, if I leave the short barrel in the free state, getting the form 1 now in CA would be fine, and I can transport it back and forth in "non-SBR" config?

We are not sure how CA would perceive this?

You can not get a form 1 or form 4 approved as long as you are a resident of California (unless you also submit an approved permit from the state of CA)

But, as Skyhawk pointed out - following federal law doesn't always equate to following California law. If/When you leave CA and acquire NFA items - I would also recommend that under no circumstances do you ever return with them (in any configuration) to California.

[mej16489]

Originally Posted by rromeo

E file form 1 will probably take less time than closing on your house that you don't even seem to have picked out yet.

Not likely. At the beginning of the year an eForm 1 could be back in days...but now its pretty much 2 months...and getting longer.

If/When there ends up being some sort of SBR 'amnesty' for "pistol-brace SBRs" expect eForm 1 to get massively longer than a couple months.

[sigstroker]

Originally Posted by Lonwa

Interesting.

So according to the ATF, if I leave the short barrel in the free state, getting the form 1 now in CA would be fine, and I can transport it back and forth in "non-SBR" config?

Doubt it. Just wait for your new address.

We are not sure how CA would perceive this?

How are they going to know anything about it?

[Quiet]

BATFE will not approve a Form 1 or Form 4 for a SBR, if the responsible party is a CA resident, unless the CA resident has a valid CA DOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit for a SBR.

Therefore...

If you are a CA resident and you do not have a valid CA DOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit for a SBR, then BATFE will not approve your Form 1 or Form 4.

[beanz2]

Originally Posted by SkyHawk

He can change the barrel and cross state lines without the 5320 but only *if* if the short barrel stays at the registered location

https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/files...tate-lines.pdf

Thank you for the ATF letter, SkyHawk. That is worth saving.

Now, the letter refers to "the short barrel" as if it is specific to the SBR lower. What if the transporting person happens to also have an AR pistol with him or has it at his destination?

[beanz2]

Originally Posted by Lonwa

Interesting.

So according to the ATF, if I leave the short barrel in the free state, getting the form 1 now in CA would be fine, and I can transport it back and forth in "non-SBR" config?

We are not sure how CA would perceive this?

So what I think you are planning to do is this. Take your CA BBRAW to your address outside of the state and apply for a SBR stamp for it from that address, then bring it back and forth to California as a non-SBR while mated to a 16+" upper?

I think that is a no-go. Have a look at Quiet's, our resident guru, reply to me here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...80&postcount=2

[verdigris]

Do you have family or friends in a free state that you would want to be on a trust? That’s the only way that you could start early and they would be filing the paperwork not you. You would be listed on the trust and if you were wanting some form 4 cans and form 1 sbrs. That’s the only way around it really need to be a resident in free state I’d suggest just waiting. I moved here from a free state and had a trust in my name but my son is on it. When I moved here he kept them. I can own them just not possess them while I live here. I went back to visit my son the other week and shot all my fun stuff and he went ahead and ordered a new can while I was there. It’s not legal for me to purchase it now that I live here but since he is on my trust he can purchase and I can legally shoot it and possess it when I’m back there.

[mrrsquared79]

Originally Posted by rromeo

E file form 1 will probably take less time than closing on your house that you don't even seem to have picked out yet.

I submitted all my stuff via snail mail on paper, no eforms first week of July, checks cashed on July 14 and stamps in my hand on Friday, September 16th. My FFL for the suppressor said that is record time for him to have things processed that quick as he had warned me this would take almost a year for the AFT to get my stuff processed.

I am wondering if the AFT knows their days may be short lived given we now live in a post Bruen world.

[sigstroker]

Originally Posted by mrrsquared79

I submitted all my stuff via snail mail on paper, no eforms first week of July, checks cashed on July 14 and stamps in my hand on Friday, September 16th. My FFL for the suppressor said that is record time for him to have things processed that quick as he had warned me this would take almost a year for the AFT to get my stuff processed.

I am wondering if the AFT knows their days may be short lived given we now live in a post Bruen world.

They might have to do their original job, regulating DEALERS.