C&R FFL Application Form ATF 7CR - use the official BATFE PDF form!

[cedricxerxes]

Mailed July 20th
CC charged July 26th
Received FFL August 14th

25 days door-to-door.

Now for that COE...

.

[slamfire51]

Mailed mine June 26th. Called July 23, said they received it July 6th.
Got it today. Woot!!! 49 days, and faster than last time @ 8.5 months.

[InFamous20]

C&R just arrived!

Mailed it 7/12
CC charged 7/20
Arrived 8/16

[ke6guj]

ATF now hosts the C&R app form online in a PDF, http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/at...16-notice.html

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=343946

[Turbinator]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

ATF now hosts the C&R app form online in a PDF, http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/at...16-notice.html

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=343946

That's awesome - it's about time...!!!

Turby

[DasBoost]

So do we send in our LiveScan data with the application or do we get the license and then do LiveScan? Sorry for the dumb question, I'm under the weather and trying to figure out the process; being sick and deciphering red tape does not make for a fun time.

Any info helps, I just DL'd the PDF and also requested the application by mail from ATF@socent. Thanks!

[ke6guj]

C&R FFL app and COE app are completely separate. You just follow the directions for the C&R app and send that in to ATF. Follw the directions for the COE app and send that to CADOJ. You can do it in either order. Historically, we waited for the C&R FFL to be issued before we applied for the COE since ATF could take a long time to approve and CADOJ gets the COE approved in ~2 weeks.

[DasBoost]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

C&R FFL app and COE app are completely separate. You just follow the directions for the C&R app and send that in to ATF. Follw the directions for the COE app and send that to CADOJ. You can do it in either order. Historically, we waited for the C&R FFL to be issued before we applied for the COE since ATF could take a long time to approve and CADOJ gets the COE approved in ~2 weeks.

Ok, that helps a lot. thanks for the info. I knew they were related, but not sure how intertwined, if at all, they were. Thanks again guys, I join the C&R (I think it's over 50, have to check my serial #) club with my first rifle, a K31.

[Justintoxicated]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

the green app is 4 pages, first two pages are "Copy 1 - ATF copy" and the second two pages are "Copy 2 - CLEO". Fill out the entire form and send the first two pages to ATF and the last two pages to the CLEO.

Crap I mailed all 4 to the same place (ATF) What should I do now? I can't believe I screwed this up.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Originally Posted by Justintoxicated

Crap I mailed all 4 to the same place (ATF) What should I do now? I can't believe I screwed this up.

I'm curious how you filled out Section 14 of the application.

[Justintoxicated]

Originally Posted by Mssr. Eleganté

I'm curious how you filled out Section 14 of the application.

I believe I initialed all the boxes, But it's not like I intentionally lied, I just forgot to separate the forms at the post office. I really screwed this up.. (I did read them all though but I was in a rush). I meant to separate them and mail them both while at the post office. But I was rushing to get back to work on time from my lunch break, and forgot that I had to separate the application and mail it to two different places. Can I simply use the online Form to mail another copy to the CLEO?

Oh man, I think there are helicopters and black cars scoping out my house now.

[FALAK]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

C&R FFL app and COE app are completely separate. You just follow the directions for the C&R app and send that in to ATF. Follw the directions for the COE app and send that to CADOJ. You can do it in either order. Historically, we waited for the C&R FFL to be issued before we applied for the COE since ATF could take a long time to approve and CADOJ gets the COE approved in ~2 weeks.

I am relatively new to CA - what does COE do for a person?

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by FALAK

I am relatively new to CA - what does COE do for a person?

snipped from my C&R info post:

If you get the COE in addition to your C&R FFL, then you can DROS C&R firearms and take them home immediately, no 10-day wait.


To get the COE, Certificate of Eligibility, download the app at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/coeapp.pdf. Just follow the directions on how to fill it out. Included in the directions is a URL to a list of Live Scan locations where you'll have your fingerprints electronically scanned and sent to CADOJ and the FBI.


The COE is more expensive, around $100 in fees for the first year, but the renewal is something like $20 bucks per year. It has a very limited use in CA, but when used in conjuction with the C&R FFL, exempts you from the 10-day wait on C&R purchases (handguns and long guns) from a dealer (still must DROS it), and exempts you from the 1-in-30 handgun regulations for ALL handguns, modern and C&R. If buying a C&R handgun, if you have the C&R+COE combo, you are exempt from the Handgun Safety Certificate requirement as well.


When/If the mail-order ban portion of AB962 goes into effect, the C&R+COE combo will also allow you to do mail-order handgun ammo, provided the seller understands the exemtpion.


If you get your C&R FFL, you are not required to get a COE if you don't want one. You just don't gain the privledges that the 03+COE combo extends.

[FALAK]

Thank you Jack!

Another dumb question

I downloaded the BATF form, which asks the applicant to identify his/her local CLEO. Do I just provide the name and address, or is it my responsibility to get the local CLEO sign off the form before I submit to BATF?

If not, does BATF contact my local CLEO upon receiving my application, wait for his/her signature of approval, then issue me the C&R license?

Jeff

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by FALAK

I downloaded the BATF form, which asks the applicant to identify his/her local CLEO. Do I just provide the name and address, or is it my responsibility to get the local CLEO sign off the form before I submit to BATF?

per the instructions, you just send a copy to the CLEO and note who you sent it to on the ATF copy. There is no need to get a CLEO sign off, and no spot on the form for you to do so if you tried.

If not, does BATF contact my local CLEO upon receiving my application, wait for his/her signature of approval, then issue me the C&R license?

Jeff

BATF does not normally contact your CLEO for approval since no CLEO approva is neccessary. What the CLEO can do is contact BATF if there is a reason why BATF shouldn't approve it. For instance, your CLEO knows that you have a 5150 or have a Domestic VIolence conviction, they can contact BATF to make sure that BATF knows about it.

[FALAK]

Jack, thanks again for such clear answers to my questions!

Time to finally get my lazy as* moving, after thinking about getting this done for more than 10 years, and having paid a few thousand dollars of dealer transfer fee, all the way from the East to the West Coast!

[FALAK]

Jack, or anyone who knows about these:

1) I downloaded the Adobe-fillable ATF forms, and they work well. I read a lot about the original green form. I assume that is historical now that ATF has the PDF form on their website. Has anyone succeeded using the downloaded form?

2) I am an US citizen, so I assume to leave item 10 completely blank. Or, do I still need to fill item 10-A to certify my compliance? Furthermore, do I need to fill the separate Form 5330-20 (certification of compliance)?

Thank you again

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by FALAK

Jack, or anyone who knows about these:

1) I downloaded the Adobe-fillable ATF forms, and they work well. I read a lot about the original green form. I assume that is historical now that ATF has the PDF form on their website. Has anyone succeeded using the downloaded form?

I would only use the ATF-provided PDF form.

I would not use the copy hosted on CGN.

2) I am an US citizen, so I assume to leave item 10 completely blank. Or, do I still need to fill item 10-A to certify my compliance?

correct. you leave 10 blank. As it says inthe form, "immigrant aliens listed in item 9" have to fill out item 10. Since you aren't an immigrant alien, item 10 does not apply to you.

Furthermore, do I need to fill the separate Form 5330-20 (certification of compliance)?

Thank you again

as mentioned on the website, "In addition to the below documents, applications must be accompanied by a signed Certification of Compliance (ATF F 5330.20) for each additional Responsible Person (RP) on the license, if applicable."

do you have multiple people listed in item 9? if not, then that doesn't apply to you either.

[FALAK]

Jack, again, thank you so much. I am ready to submit next week; will post my progress!

[sass2924]

Mine is going in the mail tomorrow. Lets see how long it will take!!!


Updated 12/2/2010

Mailed 1st Class Friday 11/26/2010
CC Charged Tue 11/30/2010

[Databyter]

I sent mine in today. I consider myself lucky to have only recently investigated this option.

For me I just dl'd the form, wrote a check, and sent 2 return receipt letters.

I'm crossing my fingers.

I'm on the fence about the C&R + COE combo.

Not sure it's worth it.

The 10 day waiting is a pain but ifit saves me a hundred bucks it's not that much of a pain.

I thought I read someone hinting about ammunition exemptions too? and more than 1 in 30.

Is there a source for this?

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by Databyter

I thought I read someone hinting about ammunition exemptions too? and more than 1 in 30.

Is there a source for this?

Yes. AB962 specifically exempts holders of the 03FFL + COE, and that combination allows for more than one handgun every 30 days.

Some dealers (cough, Turner's, cough) seem to think it applies only to C&R handguns, and at least one DOJ person told a Calgunner the same thing, but that is not the case... The PC does not specify C&R only.

12072 (a)(9)(A)No person shall make an application to purchase more than one pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person within any 30-day period.

(B)Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to any of the following:
...

(ix)Any person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with
Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant
thereto and who has a current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071.

And the pertinent portion of AB962:

12318. (a) Commencing February 1, 2011, the delivery or transfer of ownership of handgun ammunition may only occur in a face-to-face transaction with the deliverer or transferor being provided bona fide evidence of identity from the purchaser or other transferee. A violation of this section is a misdemeanor.
....

(c) Subdivision (a) shall not apply to or affect the deliveries, transfers, or sales of, handgun ammunition to any of the following:

• (1) Authorized law enforcement representatives of cities, counties, cities and counties, or state and federal governments for exclusive use by those government agencies if, prior to the delivery, transfer, or sale of the handgun ammunition, written authorization from the head of the agency employing the purchaser or transferee, is obtained identifying the employee as an individual authorized to conduct the transaction, and authorizing the transaction for the exclusive use of the agency employing the individual.
• (2) Sworn peace officers, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 who are authorized to carry a firearm in the course and scope of their duties.
• (3) Importers and manufacturers of handgun ammunition or firearms licensed to engage in business pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
• (4) Persons who are on the centralized list maintained by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12083.
• (5) Persons whose licensed premises are outside this state who are licensed as dealers or collectors of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
• (6) Persons licensed as collectors of firearms pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto whose licensed premises are within this state who has a current certificate of eligibility issued to him or her by the Department of Justice pursuant to Section 12071.
• (7) A handgun ammunition vendor.
• (8) A consultant-evaluator, as defined in subdivision (s) of Section 12001.

[Databyter]

Thanks for your quick reply.

I actually found it I read the AB law while I was gone and just the exemption from the ammo alone makes getting the COE attractive to me.

I also was going to get a live scan anyway for another permit so I imagine the one live scan and the COE would cover the other need as well, so for me I'd only be paying out extra for the application itself.

A little voice inside me is saying that even if I don't use some of these privledges I better get them grandfathered in.

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by Databyter

I actually found it I read the AB law while I was gone and just the exemption from the ammo alone makes getting the COE attractive to me.

That is the main reason that I got mine.

I also was going to get a live scan anyway for another permit so I imagine the one live scan and the COE would cover the other need as well, so for me I'd only be paying out extra for the application itself.

I don't think so. Someone was asking about that a few months ago, and each permit needs it's own Livescan due to the different background checks for different permits.
Apparently, they can't bring up an older ATI and run a different background check. When my wife got her real estate license, she ended up having to get two Livescans.

A little voice inside me is saying that even if I don't use some of these privledges I better get them grandfathered in.

Bingo.

I've still not purchased any C&Rs, but it is very tempting.

[Bigtime1]

Originally Posted by ke6guj

C&R FFL app and COE app are completely separate. You just follow the directions for the C&R app and send that in to ATF. Follw the directions for the COE app and send that to CADOJ. You can do it in either order. Historically, we waited for the C&R FFL to be issued before we applied for the COE since ATF could take a long time to approve and CADOJ gets the COE approved in ~2 weeks.

So you must have the C&R FFL before you can apply for the COE?

Or can you apply for both at the same time?

[Bigtime1]

[QUOTE]I don't think so. Someone was asking about that a few months ago, and each permit needs it's own Livescan due to the different background checks for different permits.
Apparently, they can't bring up an older ATI and run a different background check.[QUOTE]

Each Live Scan is a unique "transaction" that generates an ATI number that is tied to that ORI number.

[ke6guj]

Originally Posted by Bigtime1

So you must have the C&R FFL before you can apply for the COE?

Or can you apply for both at the same time?

each process is separate and has no linkage to the other. As I mentioned, you can do it in either order. or at the same time if you wish.

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by Bigtime1

So you must have the C&R FFL before you can apply for the COE?

Or can you apply for both at the same time?

The two are unrelated as far as application, but the COE alone is useless unless you are trying to get a job in a gun store.

Most people wait until they have their 03 in hand before they invest the $100 or so and time in the COE, just in case they get denied for the 03.

[Bigtime1]

Originally Posted by Cokebottle

The two are unrelated as far as application, but the COE alone is useless unless you are trying to get a job in a gun store.

Most people wait until they have their 03 in hand before they invest the $100 or so and time in the COE, just in case they get denied for the 03.

So it sounds like you should have the FFL03 in your hand to you can legitimately check the "collector" box under "Business Type"?

FFL app in the mail today, start your sundials!

[ke6guj]

you can be a collector even if you don't have an 03FFL, so you don't have to have the 03FFL first.

[Databyter]

Originally Posted by Databyter

I sent mine in today. I consider myself lucky to have only recently investigated this option.

For me I just dl'd the form, wrote a check, and sent 2 return receipt letters.

I'm crossing my fingers.

I'm on the fence about the C&R + COE combo.

Not sure it's worth it.

The 10 day waiting is a pain but ifit saves me a hundred bucks it's not that much of a pain.

I thought I read someone hinting about ammunition exemptions too? and more than 1 in 30.

Is there a source for this?

I just got my license yesterday, so for me it took 29 days from start to finish. I sent the app certified with return receipt for a little added insurance.

I also applied for the COE but have not yet heard from the State, granted I applied for that about ten days later, and during the holidays. I expect to hear something on that one fairly soon as well.

Just wanted to give a current State of affairs.

Now to edify some online ammo vendors and see who will honor the specific exemption that I now clearly enjoy under the law regarding online bulk ammo purchases.

[D53]

I printed the form off the link and mailed out yesterday ( didn't actually go out until today) but hopefully I'll see a $30 charge on my card in a week or two and get my 03 in a couple weeks.

Edit: Charge to my card was made!
1/14/2011 1/15/2011 ATF LICENSING CENTER WASHINGTON DC $30.00

[NYY]

lost here... is it 100% necessary to have a hunting license/permit?

"C. Are you in possession of a valid hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States?
1. If you answered "NO," you likely cannot lawfully possess a firearm and therefore cannot be a federal firearms licensee.
2. If you answered "YES," complete the following information, and attach a copy of the hunting license or permit to the application."

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by LG_MARINE

lost here... is it 100% necessary to have a hunting license/permit?

"C. Are you in possession of a valid hunting license or permit lawfully issued in the United States?
1. If you answered "NO," you likely cannot lawfully possess a firearm and therefore cannot be a federal firearms licensee.
2. If you answered "YES," complete the following information, and attach a copy of the hunting license or permit to the application."

That only applies to nonimmigrant aliens.

[NYY]

ohhh. thanks so much!!

[SkyStorm82]

I mailed mine off on the 27th of December. Card was charged the following week but I'm still waiting on the actuall FFL.

[2DoorImpala]

Dumb question:

Is this for the CLEO( do i leave it blank?) or for me to sign?





And under I am paying the application fee part, do i put my name in there?



Thanks, planning to get it shipped out when my ink arrives

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by 2DoorImpala

Dumb question:

Is this for the CLEO( do i leave it blank?) or for me to sign?

Title = "Collector"

And under I am paying the application fee part, do i put my name in there?



Thanks, planning to get it shipped out when my ink arrives

Yes.
"Please complete to ensure payment is credited to the correct application"

Keep in mind that we are not applying as a business, but a similar form is used for a business FFL.
When Brian applied for the FFL for Riflegear, he would have used his card, but on that blank would have put something like "Riflegear Inc" or "Shark Enterprises dba Riflegear"

[2DoorImpala]

Thanks,


I meant to put if I put my name over where it says "Im paying....". The way the put it confused me a bit

[twoguesses]

Has anyone used certified mail to the atf for applying for their 03FFL? Wondering if for some reason it doesn't show as delivered online when mailing to the ATF PO box in the instructions.

I mailed my app. to ATF and my CLEO on the same day (1/31/11) CLEO shows as delivered but FFL app to ATF just shows as 'accepted' (by USPS). The app hasn't been returned and it doesn't show as delivered. My CC also hasn't been charged either. Starting to think that my certified letter has been lost. So much for sending it certified. Has anybody had this problem of a certified letter not showing as delivered but it went through?

Thanks for any insight.

UPDATE:

Worst case confirmed today. I go to the post office and they tell me that they have no further information. That it was sent to a PO box and that it was likely delivered but they forgot to scan it in. I tell them that this is unlikely and explain the processing fee and how it hasn't been charged.

Clerk: 'we have no further information'
Me: 'This is a certified letter right? This went certified?'
Clerk: 'Yes'
Me: 'So in other words my certified letter is lost'
Clerk: -blank stare-
Me: Deep breath and repeat to self (it's not her fault) then reply: 'Thank you very much for your help ma'am'

Update 2:

Spoke with ATF today and they don't have my application. Rather then being upset i find it more amusing then anything that the USPS lost my certified letter. Back to square one........