FFL 03 / COE Roadmap

[SandHill]

Apologies to my fellow Calgunners because I ma sure this is our there somewhere, but I have spent 20 minutes searching and can't find it. Can someone point me to thread or a sticky on the process to get an FFL 03 and COE?

Thanks!

[Quiet]

1. Submit a completed ATF Form 7 to BATFE.
2. Create an account on CFARS.
3. Download and complete a Request for Live Scan for a COE, then get live scanned using that form.
5. Submit a COE application, that references your live scan ATI #, via CFARS.
6. Wait to be approved.

[SandHill]

Thanks, Quiet!

[nbk992h]

I would add to number 1....make sure you remember to send your payment of $30 along with your application....If you forget, it will take that much longer for your 03 FFL application to get process (prob will be sent back to you for non payment...but who knows how long that will take...I am not certain of this....they could just contact you for payment, but I would not hold my breath for that lol). I have used for my original and renewal application a money order, as it is easy for me to see if it has been "cashed" yet by the ATF (what day) before I got my initial and renewal 03 FFL. If for whatever reason your application were to "disappear" on its way to the ATF, your personal checking information (i.e. account number and address) or credit card info will not potentially fall in the wrong hands. I am sure many people send them a personal check or their credit card info all the time....but having worked at a bank for many years, I have seen how easy it is for bank and credit card fraud to happen via "disappearing" mail.

One more FYI.....From looking at the application re: credit card payment:

"I authorize ATF to charge my Credit/Debit Card the above amount. Your credit/debit card will be charged the above stated amount upon receipt of your application and a charge from “ATF Licensing Fee” will be reflected on your credit/debit card statement. In the event a license is NOT issued, the above amount will be credited to the credit/debit card noted above"

I would imagine then (based on the wording for credit card payment type), that if for some reason your FFL application was not approved, they would not cash your check or money order/keep your money). Nice of them, considering I seriously doubt the state of CA would for any State fees relating to your COE.

So in sum, if you have any doubts whether or not you would pass ATF/ CA DOJ background check, try to find out before you submit you FFL application and live scan/COE application.

Hope this helps too

[SandHill]

Thanks, nbk992h, but everything is in including FFL Application with my credit card info. Guess I'll just have to take my chances on that.

So I mailed FFL 03, copy to police chief, went on CFARS, printed LiveScan form, got Live Scan. Went on CFARS, filled out COE application, submitted.

Did not upload copy of my Driver's License. It didn't ask for it and I did not see any place to upload documents. My DL is not Real ID so I was expecting to upload my passport as well. no place to do that.

I don't want to wait a month (or longer) for someone to review, then send DL nd passport, then wait another month (or longer).

Should I email my ID's? Can someone tell me how to upload? I don't see anything in the instructions about it.

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by SandHill

Went on CFARS, filled out COE application, submitted.

Did not upload copy of my Driver's License. It didn't ask for it and I did not see any place to upload documents. My DL is not Real ID so I was expecting to upload my passport as well. no place to do that.

The "fine print" section on top of the online form had the notice that gave instructions on how to upload your required documents.

The bottom of the online form had a "File Upload Section", which allowed you to upload files (jpg, pdf) from your computer to attach to your online form.

If you submitted your form without any of the required files attached, you should receive an email from CA DOJ BOF informing you that your submission is incomplete and to log back into CFARS to correct the issues with your submission.
^Email tends to arrive within 48 hours of your submission.

[SandHill]

Originally Posted by Quiet

The "fine print" section on top of the online form had the notice that gave instructions on how to upload your required documents.

The bottom of the online form had a "File Upload Section", which allowed you to upload files (jpg, pdf) from your computer to attach to your online form.

If you submitted your form without any of the required files attached, you should receive an email from CA DOJ BOF informing you that your submission is incomplete and to log back into CFARS to correct the issues with your submission.
^Email tends to arrive within 48 hours of your submission.

Oops!!! Guess I didn't read close enough. Oh well, if I get another chance to upload in 48 hours, not a big deal. I was afraid it might be weeks or months.

I got pretty well stocked in all my main calibers before the online ammo rules came into effect. Just thinking about adding a caliber to the line-up.

[-hanko]

Originally Posted by nbk992h

I would add to number 1....make sure you remember to send your payment of $30 along with your application....If you forget, it will take that much longer for your 03 FFL application to get process (prob will be sent back to you for non payment...but who knows how long that will take...I am not certain of this....they could just contact you for payment, but I would not hold my breath for that lol). I have used for my original and renewal application a money order, as it is easy for me to see if it has been "cashed" yet by the ATF (what day) before I got my initial and renewal 03 FFL. If for whatever reason your application were to "disappear" on its way to the ATF, your personal checking information (i.e. account number and address) or credit card info will not potentially fall in the wrong hands. I am sure many people send them a personal check or their credit card info all the time....but having worked at a bank for many years, I have seen how easy it is for bank and credit card fraud to happen via "disappearing" mail.

One more FYI.....From looking at the application re: credit card payment:

"I authorize ATF to charge my Credit/Debit Card the above amount. Your credit/debit card will be charged the above stated amount upon receipt of your application and a charge from “ATF Licensing Fee” will be reflected on your credit/debit card statement. In the event a license is NOT issued, the above amount will be credited to the credit/debit card noted above"

I would imagine then (based on the wording for credit card payment type), that if for some reason your FFL application was not approved, they would not cash your check or money order/keep your money). Nice of them, considering I seriously doubt the state of CA would for any State fees relating to your COE.

So in sum, if you have any doubts whether or not you would pass ATF/ CA DOJ background check, try to find out before you submit you FFL application and live scan/COE application.

Hope this helps too

Your payment will be cashed by check or debited from a CC or debit card within a day or 2 of the your application received by BATFE. It can take a week or more for them to check your records and actually mail the C&R license.

IF your application is not approved by BATFE, your payment will be returned. That may take a while.

[otteray]

When it comes time to renew your COE in the future, remember to upload both your DL and a scan of your FFL License Information Card. The FFL card scan may be a new policy, as is was not included on the CFARS site (as far as I could tell) nor when I had renewed in previous years.

[SandHill]

I received an email from CFARS today asking for my FFL 03 number, and telling m that if I don't have one I need to provide reason for for applying for COE. I told them I was applying for FFL 03 concurrently but have not received number yet. We will see if that works.

Interestingly, the email did not mention the fact that I failed to upload ID documents. However, I went online and it was now possible to upload docs to my application so I did.

My CA DL is not a Real ID so I was planning to use my passport for secondary ID. Surprisingly, passport was not on the list of acceptable ID's! So I clicked on "Certificate of Citizenship Form N-560 or N-561" and uploaded my passport. They will probably kick it back and I will have to try to figure out where my birth certificate is.

It may be time to throw in the towel and get a Real IS driver's license. I have been trying to avoid the dreaded trip to the DMV

Ah, the joys of living in California.......

[SandHill]

Applied for CA COE on August 25, was issued yesterday Sept. 15. That is faster than I had been led to expect.

I applied for FFL 03 at the same time, it hasn't come yet. I thought that would be faster than COE. Should I be concerned? What is best way to follow up if so? Phone? Email?

[Quiet]

Originally Posted by SandHill

Applied for CA COE on August 25, was issued yesterday Sept. 15. That is faster than I had been led to expect.

I applied for FFL 03 at the same time, it hasn't come yet. I thought that would be faster than COE. Should I be concerned? What is best way to follow up if so? Phone? Email?

No need to be concerned.

Typically, the CA DOJ COE approval process is faster than the ATF 03-FFL approval process.

[SandHill]

Originally Posted by Quiet

No need to be concerned.

Typically, the CA DOJ COE approval process is faster than the ATF 03-FFL approval process.

OK, thanks. I am surprised. CA government is inefficient in general, and it seems to me purposely inefficient on everything else related to firearm approvals, so I figured they would be the laggards.

[hollowpoint67]

Originally Posted by SandHill

I received an email from CFARS today asking for my FFL 03 number, and telling m that if I don't have one I need to provide reason for for applying for COE. I told them I was applying for FFL 03 concurrently but have not received number yet. We will see if that works.

Interestingly, the email did not mention the fact that I failed to upload ID documents. However, I went online and it was now possible to upload docs to my application so I did.

My CA DL is not a Real ID so I was planning to use my passport for secondary ID. Surprisingly, passport was not on the list of acceptable ID's! So I clicked on "Certificate of Citizenship Form N-560 or N-561" and uploaded my passport. They will probably kick it back and I will have to try to figure out where my birth certificate is.

It may be time to throw in the towel and get a Real IS driver's license. I have been trying to avoid the dreaded trip to the DMV

Ah, the joys of living in California.......

Im in this exact same boat as I applied concurrently. I do have a real ID though so that I can submit to hopefully get the ball rolling.

[-hanko]

Originally Posted by nbk992h

I would add to number 1....make sure you remember to send your payment of $30 along with your application....If you forget, it will take that much longer for your 03 FFL application to get process (prob will be sent back to you for non payment...but who knows how long that will take...I am not certain of this....they could just contact you for payment, but I would not hold my breath for that lol). I have used for my original and renewal application a money order, as it is easy for me to see if it has been "cashed" yet by the ATF (what day) before I got my initial and renewal 03 FFL. If for whatever reason your application were to "disappear" on its way to the ATF, your personal checking information (i.e. account number and address) or credit card info will not potentially fall in the wrong hands. I am sure many people send them a personal check or their credit card info all the time....but having worked at a bank for many years, I have seen how easy it is for bank and credit card fraud to happen via "disappearing" mail.

One more FYI.....From looking at the application re: credit card payment:

"I authorize ATF to charge my Credit/Debit Card the above amount. Your credit/debit card will be charged the above stated amount upon receipt of your application and a charge from “ATF Licensing Fee” will be reflected on your credit/debit card statement. In the event a license is NOT issued, the above amount will be credited to the credit/debit card noted above"

I would imagine then (based on the wording for credit card payment type), that if for some reason your FFL application was not approved, they would not cash your check or money order/keep your money). Nice of them, considering I seriously doubt the state of CA would for any State fees relating to your COE.

So in sum, if you have any doubts whether or not you would pass ATF/ CA DOJ background check, try to find out before you submit you FFL application and live scan/COE application.(\)

It's always great to take a simple process and make it more complicated.

If there is an issue with you payment method, you'll be contacted within a week with the issue. If you're not sure of your checking account balance or if you cc or dc has enough money, don't mail your application until you are sure.

You payment will be taken by BATFE within a few days of receiving your application. Assuming they took your money, and you failed the BATFE requirements for the C&R license, you'll be mailed a government check.

No idea as to how COE payments are returned, as they're not used where i live.

[SandHill]

Originally Posted by -hanko

It's always great to take a simple process and make it more complicated.

If there is an issue with you payment method, you'll be contacted within a week with the issue. If you're not sure of your checking account balance or if you cc or dc has enough money, don't mai your application until you are sure.

You payment will be taken by BATFE within a few days of receiving your application. Assuming they took your money, and you failed the BATFE requirements for the C&R license, you'll be mailed a government check.

No idea as to how COE payments are returned, as they're not used where i live.

MY CC payment for the FFL 03 was processed just a couple days after I sent. Not too worried about failing a background check Now it's just a question of how long it takes to process

[nbk992h]

SandHill,


I think it depends on how busy they are at the ATF and also if its an initial/first time application or renewal. When I did my initial 03ffl application (about 3-4 years ago), mine took about 2.5 months from start to finish (mailing, processing payment, and waiting for approved 03FFL license paper to come in the mail). For my renewal earlier this year, it was much faster, as I think since you are already "in the system", most of the information was just checking verification (address, phone number, etc). All I really had to do was update my "hours of availability", which meant just writing them in again. After sending it off to ATF with my payment for processing, I got my renewal FFL in the mail in about 2 weeks, which I thought was pretty fast, all things considered. I always get a money order I can track (so i can call my bank to see if the ATF has cashed it) and send my application with a tracking option from US postal service [I just mail regular with a stamp the CLEO copy you have to give to your police chief or sheriff (depending on if you live in incorporated or unincorporated area] but I think you can hand deliver it to the police/sheriff station, though I think its better (depending on what city you live in) to just mail it. I send my application out this way so that way I know they got it (assuming it did not get lost in the mail) and can check with my bank a few weeks or so after to see if they cashed my money order. They always take your money first before doing any background check work lol. And as mentioned above, it for some reason you fail your ATF background check, they will refund your money in the form of a government check (spoke to an ATF agent about this few year ago). But to avoid this all together, I always advise perspective applicants to check their records/ get a copy of them, if they are not sure if anything is on it or still on it. Then its just a matter of playing the waiting game. I would imagine if its been several months you can call the ATF main office (in Virginia I believe) and ask, but I am not 100% certain if they will give that information over the phone.

The CA DOJ did do that for me a few years ago when I was checking on the status of my COE application renewal, but I do not think you call call and get a live person for that anymore as an "individual", but who knows anymore...may they are back to offering that option, but i doubt it here in CA. Its, pay online, and wait...and if there is an issue you will get an email and you can login to your account online to see what it is and fix it. Mine was giving the 03FFL on my COE app this past year, and updating my DL with a copy of my new "REAL ID" DL. once i did that, my COE was literally instantly approved, as I guess they had approved it already, but until the system saw that, it would not show on my online account for me to print/download my updated COE. I was blown away it was that fast, but I did not question it lol. I just figured that how their system was set up to process it. But who knows, may I just lucked out All I know is they took my money off my C/C right away to charge it and it took about a week from start to finish ot be approved.


Sorry for the long post, just want to share experiences I have had with the ATF (or BAFTE as its called now), and the CA DOJ.

[SandHill]

Originally Posted by nbk992h

Sorry for the long post, just want to share experiences I have had with the ATF (or BAFTE as its called now), and the CA DOJ.

Thanks for info. 2.5 - 3 months is a long time in an ammo drought that just refuses to end, but of course I should have started this 3-4 years ago when they passed the internet ammo ban. I have no one to blame but myself.

[hollowpoint67]

Ok just received mine. Now for the COE.

[nbk992h]

Your welcome. I am not sure if it takes that long for an initial application right now oh, but that's how long it took me about three and a half years ago. I guess it would depend on how busy they are right now. Hopefully yours won't take as long.

[SandHill]

Originally Posted by hollowpoint67

Ok just received mine. Now for the COE.

Hollowpoint, a real time data point would be very helpful. When did you for file for FFL 03?

And here's a data point for you. I filed for COE on August 25, and got it on Sept 15, despite not initially attaching docs to application.

[hollowpoint67]

Fair point -

03 timeline:
Mailed - 8/20
CC charged - 8/25
FFL received - 9/17

COE:
Applied - 8/21
Missing doc email - 9/15, resubmitted 9/20.

Originally Posted by SandHill

Hollowpoint, a real time data point would be very helpful. When did you for file for FFL 03?

And here's a data point for you. I filed for COE on August 25, and got it on Sept 15, despite not initially attaching docs to application.

[SandHill]

Originally Posted by hollowpoint67

Fair point -

03 timeline:
Mailed - 8/20
CC charged - 8/25
FFL received - 9/17

COE:
Applied - 8/21
Missing doc email - 9/15, resubmitted 9/20.

Thanks, Hollowpoint! Hopefully I will get my 03 any day now.

[SandHill]

Received my FFL 03 yesterday. Whole process for 03 and COE was under a month, I think that is pretty good. Here are my data points, in case it helps others:

03 timeline:
Mailed - 8/25
CC charged - 9/1
FFL received - 9/23

COE:
Applied - 8/25
Incomplete Notice for missing docs 8/27
Missing docs uploaded 8/27
COE received 9/16

Easier than I expected. Thanks for the guidance, Quiet and everyone!

[hollowpoint67]

Originally Posted by hollowpoint67

Fair point -

03 timeline:
Mailed - 8/20
CC charged - 8/25
FFL received - 9/17

COE:
Applied - 8/21
Missing doc email - 9/15, resubmitted 9/20.

Received COE 9/23!!

[SandHill]

Originally Posted by hollowpoint67

Received COE 9/23!!

Congrats, Hollowpoint! Looks like you were just a couple days over a month start to finish, I was just a couple of days under. Hopefully that is what current applicants can expect, and it's a little better than last year and before.

[Sharp-Ridge9]

I had a question on part 1. of the " Application For Firearms License" ATF Form 7. Do you mark box for "Individual Owner (Sole Proprietor)" or mark box for "Collector". On old ATF Form7 applications there were only choices for "Individual", "Corporation", "Partnership", and Other. Past applicants would mark box as individual for FFL 03.

[Sharp-Ridge9]

Quiet,

I had a question on part 1. of the " Application For Firearms License" ATF Form 7. Do you mark box for "Individual Owner (Sole Proprietor)" or mark box for "Collector". On old ATF Form7 applications there were only choices for "Individual", "Corporation", "Partnership", and Other. Past applicants would mark box as individual for FFL 03.