Caldor Fire explodes

[California_Deplorable]

Any word on containment on eastern side near Kirkwood Lake? Seems like it is just burning out of control that way.

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by JagerDog

That seems to be CalFire's MO as of late. Dixie should have been put out when it was a few acres.

In the case of the Caldor Fire, it originated in the National Forest and CalFire can't do anything until the Feds let them in. The alleged story is that there was a guy out there with his own tractor fighting it and trying to get help.

Mixed stories as to why the Feds left it alone - apparently the let it burn itself out policy - but at this point WE DO NOT KNOW.

CalFire ROCKS!! They are KICKING BUTT in the field - strategic back fires, actively protecting homes - they are parking fire trucks on homes, TONS of Fire crew and trucks from all over the state.

The latest damaged structures map is incredible. The fire went through an area to the west of me now and it looks like they saved 80-90% of them - perhaps the percentage is higher - it is truly incredible.

Not sure if I have posted this before - here is a nighttime helicopter water drop on and around homes.

https://twitter.com/CphilpottCraig/s...58124600807431

[user120312]

Originally Posted by California_Deplorable

Any word on containment on eastern side near Kirkwood Lake? Seems like it is just burning out of control that way.

I see a couple MAFFS have been working out there near Hwy 88 about 7-8 miles west of Silver Lake. Looks like the winds are picking up....
https://sartopo.com/map.html#ll=38.7...2Cwxd_wgust-01

[otteray]

Originally Posted by California_Deplorable

Any word on containment on eastern side near Kirkwood Lake? Seems like it is just burning out of control that way.

If you do Facebook, here's the CalFire daily update:
http://https://www.facebook.com/1099...79877190205437

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by California_Deplorable

Any word on containment on eastern side near Kirkwood Lake? Seems like it is just burning out of control that way.

It does not look like there is any containment out that way yet.

You can download all of Cal-Fire maps for today, here: https://app.box.com/embed/s/0bzlphu7...arentPath=true

Here are today's control objectives lifted from the current (today's) Incident Action Plan:

Control Objectives
- Keep the fire North of HWY 88 and Shake Ridge Rd
- Keep the fire South of Wentworth Springs Rd
- Keep the fire East of E16 and Fiddletown Rd
- Keep the fire West of HWY 89

No formal word on my house, but I am interpreting the most recent structure status map to mean that my house was not affected!

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by user120312

I see a couple MAFFS have been working out there near Hwy 88 about 7-8 miles west of Silver Lake. Looks like the winds are picking up....
https://sartopo.com/map.html#ll=38.7...2Cwxd_wgust-01

Yep a bit of wind today. Here is the predictions on CalFire's IAP for the day:

Daytime:

Wind (20 ft) ....... .
Slope/valley ....... Southeast to south 8-13 mph with gusts to 22 mph through 1100 ... then becoming southwest 4-9 mph with gusts to 15
mph through the afternoon.
Ridgetop ........... South 17-22 mph with gusts to 30 mph through 1100 then
southwest 13-18 mph with gusts to 25 mph through the afternoon.
Mixing height ....... Near surface increasing to around 7000 ft AGL.
Transport winds ..... Southwest around 18 mph .

Tonight;

Wind (20 ft) ....... .
Slope/valley ....... Downslope/downcanyon 3-7 mph.
Ridgetop ........... South-southwest 9-13 mph.
Mixing height ....... Lowering to near surface.
Transport winds ..... Southeast around 5 mph .

Tomorrow:

Wind (20 ft) ....... .
Slope/valley ....... Downcanyon 2-6 mph through 0900 then becoming
upslope/upcanyon 3-7 mph with gusts to 12 mph through the afternoon.
Ridgetop ........... Southwest to west 4-7 mph.
Mixing height ....... Near surface increasing to around 5600 ft AGL.
Transport winds ..... South around 6 mph.

- Dang the fire is moving FireMappers

[user120312]

Thanks, I hope they make good use of the 2019 Caples fire scar to deflect from the Silver and Kirkwood areas, winds appear to be trending southwest to northeast through dusk. Any news on Strawberry? It appears to be in the reticle right now for today's movement. Strawberry structure focused map with latest GOES images below:

https://sartopo.com/map.html#ll=38.7...2Cwxd_wgust-01

[California_Deplorable]

I watched the cal fire update. Sounds like they are connecting dozer lines on eastern side of fire. Hopefully that contains it and keeps it from getting to Kirkwood and Silver lake area.

Otherwise the control objective of "west of 89" is very disturbing. That means a lot of beautiful country could burn.

[California_Deplorable]

Originally Posted by user120312

Thanks, I hope they make good use of the 2019 Caples fire scar to deflect from the Silver and Kirkwood areas, winds appear to be trending southwest to northeast through dusk. Any news on Strawberry? It appears to be in the reticle right now for today's movement. Strawberry structure focused map with latest GOES images below:

https://sartopo.com/map.html#ll=38.7...2Cwxd_wgust-01

Yeah Ive seen that fire scar. Hopefully it helps stops it there.

Theres also a lot of clear cut areas. And it gets really rocky moving up to Kirkwood.

[pennstater]

I am not that familiar with the burn area, but, how close is it to the town of Woffords? The Caldora fire.

MLC

[JagerDog]

Originally Posted by Cali-Glock

In the case of the Caldor Fire, it originated in the National Forest and CalFire can't do anything until the Feds let them in. The alleged story is that there was a guy out there with his own tractor fighting it and trying to get help.

Mixed stories as to why the Feds left it alone - apparently the let it burn itself out policy - but at this point WE DO NOT KNOW.

CalFire ROCKS!! They are KICKING BUTT in the field - strategic back fires, actively protecting homes - they are parking fire trucks on homes, TONS of Fire crew and trucks from all over the state.

The latest damaged structures map is incredible. The fire went through an area to the west of me now and it looks like they saved 80-90% of them - perhaps the percentage is higher - it is truly incredible.

Not sure if I have posted this before - here is a nighttime helicopter water drop on and around homes.

https://twitter.com/CphilpottCraig/s...58124600807431

Pshawww. CalFire's boots do a reasonable job of rounding up a few head after mgmt left the barn open all night.

Ounce of prevention is worth pounds of cure.

[user120312]

Originally Posted by California_Deplorable

Yeah Ive seen that fire scar. Hopefully it helps stops it there.

Theres also a lot of clear cut areas. And it gets really rocky moving up to Kirkwood.

Yes, I've driven the back way to Silver Lake many times, from the 395 side, though I haven't been in the backcountry there. Very rocky and ragged and the satellite views show a checkerboard of timber harvesting, unknown as to how they leave it these days when done. Else, it's pretty virgin timber as far as fire goes.

Originally Posted by pennstater

I am not that familiar with the burn area, but, how close is it to the town of Woffords? The Caldora fire.

One cool thing about the SAR map I link in these threads is it's easy to click on any map, then type in a search parameter, city, town, road, GPS coordinates, etc, and it'll take you there. Here's the Wofford area...
https://sartopo.com/map.html#ll=35.7...2Cwxd_wgust-01

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by California_Deplorable

I watched the cal fire update. Sounds like they are connecting dozer lines on eastern side of fire. Hopefully that contains it and keeps it from getting to Kirkwood and Silver lake area.

Otherwise the control objective of "west of 89" is very disturbing. That means a lot of beautiful country could burn.

It is FREAKING TERRIFYING. No wonder South Lake Tahoe is freaked out.

I drew the Orange line on the outside of the named roads. I don't really know Wentworth Springs - so my squiggly is VERY approximate - and not the road itself as it heads east out of Georgetown.


Control Objectives
- Keep the fire North of HWY 88 and Shake Ridge Rd
- Keep the fire South of Wentworth Springs Rd
- Keep the fire East of E16 and Fiddletown Rd
- Keep the fire West of HWY 89

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by JagerDog

Pshawww. CalFire's boots do a reasonable job of rounding up a few head after mgmt left the barn open all night.

Ounce of prevention is worth pounds of cure.

CalFire has no control over the management of the National Forest.

[LTC-J]

@Cali-Glock, thanks for the map.

The northern bound of WW has been that way for days. When I noted it, the fire wasn't sniffing I50.

[Deadon]

Originally Posted by Cali-Glock

It is FREAKING TERRIFYING. No wonder South Lake Tahoe is freaked out.

I drew the Orange line on the outside of the named roads. I don't really know Wentworth Springs - so my squiggly is VERY approximate - and not the road itself as it heads east out of Georgetown.


Control Objectives
- Keep the fire North of HWY 88 and Shake Ridge Rd
- Keep the fire South of Wentworth Springs Rd
- Keep the fire East of E16 and Fiddletown Rd
- Keep the fire West of HWY 89

This is going to hit reno before we know it.

[Cali-Glock]

And to think ten and eleven days ago when people were yelling for something to be done, the National Forest Service told us not to worry about it and let it keep burning.

[user120312]

Wasn't there a bruhaha back during PDJT's term where he/his interior secretary wanted to get in and do some forest management more aggressively in states like CA and the state government said nope, it might be your land but it's in our state and our environmental laws control? I seem to remember something about mastication and 'raking the forest', among other things....Forex, if the Feds want to do preventative/control burns in the NF in CA and CA says nope, can the Feds ignore them and burn anyway? We do a fair amount of control burns in Oregon, there's often freeway/highway signage out to tell drivers not to call 9/11 it's a control burn, and much of the Oregon forest land is federally owned

[pennstater]

Originally Posted by user120312

Yes, I've driven the back way to Silver Lake many times, from the 395 side, though I haven't been in the backcountry there. Very rocky and ragged and the satellite views show a checkerboard of timber harvesting, unknown as to how they leave it these days when done. Else, it's pretty virgin timber as far as fire goes.





One cool thing about the SAR map I link in these threads is it's easy to click on any map, then type in a search parameter, city, town, road, GPS coordinates, etc, and it'll take you there. Here's the Wofford area...
https://sartopo.com/map.html#ll=35.7...2Cwxd_wgust-01

user120312, ok, thanks for that.

MLC

[Jason_2111]

I have wonderful news!

I just got an escort in to the sly park area. For starters, no, I won't say how or with who, rules were bent.
But... The zoom.earth map is WRONG. It shows Sierra springs on fire, and it breaching sly park road. THIS IS NOT THE CASE. The satellite is picking up heat from the plume coming off of the fire and blowing... And though there was a fair bit of ash on my property, the fire has NOT crossed sly park road.

This has been stressing me out to no end... The map shows one thing, the briefing says another, and a buddy working the fire says yet another. The truth is that in that sector, the hot shots are handling business like a mofo . Unless there's some act of good like a 40 mph wind out of nowhere, sly park and Sierra springs should be safe.

Now maybe I can get some sleep... Especially since my ammo pile is now safe and secure. (I was worried that if my house went up, some fire fighter might have gotten hurt from bullets flying everywhere)

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by Deadon

This is going to hit reno before we know it.

You guys are getting the worst of the smoke pretty much. I did not check the www.airnow.gov yet... (checking it) Wow.



The PM2.5 Air Quality Index was up over 600 in some NorCal communities yesterday. The evaluation chart ends at 500. The question was asked:: "Can we keep working? (outside.) - Answer: No... let's review the Wildfire Smoke training again.

(PM2.5 is the particulate matter in smoke that makes it hazardous.)

Dang - that is the direction of the wind. I know (hope) you were kidding... don't say things like that!

[user120312]

I just got an escort in to the sly park area. For starters, no, I won't say how or with who, rules were bent.
But... The zoom.earth map is WRONG. It shows Sierra springs on fire, and it breaching sly park road. THIS IS NOT THE CASE.

Thanks for the report, good to read. From what I can see, they stopped the forward progress east of Sly Park Road and much of the Virrs in that area is stale and the circles drawn around the points can be misleading. GOES is showing very little active fire along that front and those images are usually 10-20 minutes old. With the winds forecasted during the day, I hope the west side holds the line. Looks like it should. I see a bit of a flare up in the Grizzly Flat/Mt Aukum road area to the south but the structure population down there is much less. Best wishes!

[spegull03]

Anyone have critters at the Amador County Fairgrounds? PM me if so and I’ll check in on them for you.

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by user120312

Thanks for the report, good to read. From what I can see, they stopped the forward progress east of Sly Park Road and much of the Virrs in that area is stale and the circles drawn around the points can be misleading. GOES is showing very little active fire along that front and those images are usually 10-20 minutes old. With the winds forecasted during the day, I hope the west side holds the line. Looks like it should. I see a bit of a flare up in the Grizzly Flat/Mt Aukum road area to the south but the structure population down there is much less. Best wishes!

The Zoom Earth map shows smoke and other stuff as heat which results in those alarming images. It is more complex that that... but yes it is misleading. Elsewhere I had someone give a pretty detailed technical explanation for what Zoom Earth maps are showing and why. If I stumble across it again, I'll post that explanation here.

[Deadon]

Originally Posted by Cali-Glock

You guys are getting the worst of the smoke pretty much. I did not check the www.airnow.gov yet... (checking it) Wow.



The PM2.5 Air Quality Index was up over 600 in some NorCal communities yesterday. The evaluation chart ends at 500. The question was asked:: "Can we keep working? (outside.) - Answer: No... let's review the Wildfire Smoke training again.

(PM2.5 is the particulate matter in smoke that makes it hazardous.)

Dang - that is the direction of the wind. I know (hope) you were kidding... don't say things like that!

They canceled school the last two days and said come back today. I declined and left a message with the air quality and it's about the same as the last two days. These people are trippin. I finished my exhaust today and felt like I couldn't breath. Think about having to wear a mask as a kid with the heat and smoke.

[user120312]

The Zoom Earth map shows smoke and other stuff as heat which results in those alarming images. It is more complex that that... but yes it is misleading.

Ah, I've never tried that site, I see what you mean. I've been using direct GOES satellite info and/or mapping apps that collate GOES and Viirs/Modis imagery and reported fire data. Interesting site though, will add and explore, thanks.
ETA, ruh roh, just spotted another one down near Sonora/Angels Camp and New Melones reservoir. Added fire history and structures to the map. Oh, my.
https://sartopo.com/map.html#ll=38.0...2Cwxd_wgust-01
Picture of early start from Sonora fire cam....
https://i.imgur.com/sOoWMYc.png

Hope they don't dawdle on it. Update, air assets are all over it...

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by Cali-Glock

And to think ten and eleven days ago when people were yelling for something to be done, the National Forest Service told us not to worry about it and let it keep burning.

Part of the above story is the claim that Calfire could not get on the fire because the USNF has jurisdiction and said let it burn (or some such) and not to worry about it

Official Denial:
At the 5pm Calfire Briefing they brought up this issue and categorically denied these accusations and said from day one both Calfire and USNF were working together to put out this fire and that they have inter-agency agreements allowing them to work in each others jurisdictions.

...I don't doubt the inter-agency agreements, or the general cooperation between CalFire and USNF, but I would love to learn the details as to exactly what was done during the first hours and days of this incident.

Crap and I have work to do and promised to go to bed early...

[JagerDog]

Originally Posted by Cali-Glock

Part of the above story is the claim that Calfire could not get on the fire because the USNF has jurisdiction and said let it burn (or some such) and not to worry about it

Official Denial:
At the 5pm Calfire Briefing they brought up this issue and categorically denied these accusations and said from day one both Calfire and USNF were working together to put out this fire and that they have inter-agency agreements allowing them to work in each others jurisdictions.

...I don't doubt the inter-agency agreements, or the general cooperation between CalFire and USNF, but I would love to learn the details as to exactly what was done during the first hours and days of this incident.

Crap and I have work to do and promised to go to bed early...

The logical answer is it's about remuneration. Don't want to throw too many resources at a fire until the Feds authorize payment. In the meantime the required assets goes up a thousandfold and citizens lose in many arenas. Property, mental anguish, public funds, public access, environment and sometimes life itself.

A big fat failure of gov't in general.

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by user120312

Ah, I've never tried that site, I see what you mean. I've been using direct GOES satellite info and/or mapping apps that collate GOES and Viirs/Modis imagery and reported fire data. Interesting site though, will add and explore, thanks.
ETA, ruh roh, just spotted another one down near Sonora/Angels Camp and New Melones reservoir. Added fire history and structures to the map. Oh, my.
https://sartopo.com/map.html#ll=38.0...2Cwxd_wgust-01
Picture of early start from Sonora fire cam....
https://i.imgur.com/sOoWMYc.png

Hope they don't dawdle on it. Update, air assets are all over it...

Very dark humor, but does New Melones Reservoir have enough water to fight anything bigger than a burn pile?

[Pinto]

Originally Posted by Cali-Glock

Very dark humor, but does New Melones Reservoir have enough water to fight anything bigger than a burn pile?

I just drove over the Parrotts Ferry Bridge on Monday where this fire is and NO. I've never seen the reservoir this low. Even a burn pile would be touch and go.

The Calaveras County Sheriff's Office issued evacuation orders for all of Parrots Ferry Road from the Tuolumne/Calaveras County line at Parrots Ferry Bridge to Highway 4, including Moaning Cavern and Camp Nine Road areas as well as East of Red Hill Road to Parrots Ferry Road.

Evacuation warnings were in effect for Murphys and Douglas Flat, Sgt. Greg Stark with the Calaveras County Sheriff’s Office said.

You can see how low the waterline is from normal.

[user120312]

Originally Posted by Cali-Glock

Very dark humor, but does New Melones Reservoir have enough water to fight anything bigger than a burn pile?

Humor noted, and I do see only one helicopter so your assessment is likely correct. They'll be sucking up tin cans and old Playboys off the bottom.

[Pinto]

Originally Posted by user120312

Humor noted, and I do see only one helicopter so your assessment is likely correct. They'll be sucking up tin cans and old Playboys off the bottom.

Hey don't laugh. That's close to where I had my tragic boating accident.

[user120312]

Oops. I hope CG'ers planned for record low water years.

[Tarmy]

Zeke Lunder has all the afternoon flight radar data up…shows what is happening up till now…

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by JagerDog

The logical answer is it's about remuneration. Don't want to throw too many resources at a fire until the Feds authorize payment. In the meantime the required assets goes up a thousandfold and citizens lose in many arenas. Property, mental anguish, public funds, public access, environment and sometimes life itself.

A big fat failure of gov't in general.

I just got off the phone with my buddy who lives just off Caldor Road and who stayed up on the hill until yesterday.

I picked his brain about the start of the Fire.

Saturday 8/14: He personally called USFS Saturday about the fire and they told him not to worry.

Sunday 8/15: He called USFS on got a voice mail and left a message - they called him back Tuesday.

Monday 8/16: He and his wife walked down Caldor and there was one CalFire command vehicle. He spoke to the guy and asked what the deal was. He said the CalFire guy gave him a bit of a mini-rant about the CalFire/USFS politics and said something like "screw this political BS, in the morning I am going to bring in our crews and tractors and cut a huge line" -and went on to describe what he planned to do in the morning. Several hours later of course the fire blew up and through Grizzly.

My buddy also recounted the story about other locals talking to the USFS crews on Saturday or Sunday and asking why they were sitting in their trucks, and the crews told them they were told not to go down and fight the fire, but to wait until it got up to them.

I told him what was said at this evening's Caldor Fire Community meeting about CalFire/USFS cooperation and the claim they were working on scene on day one and my buddy lost it.

[Duke Silver]

Originally Posted by user120312

Wasn't there a bruhaha back during PDJT's term where he/his interior secretary wanted to get in and do some forest management more aggressively in states like CA and the state government said nope, it might be your land but it's in our state and our environmental laws control? I seem to remember something about mastication and 'raking the forest', among other things....Forex, if the Feds want to do preventative/control burns in the NF in CA and CA says nope, can the Feds ignore them and burn anyway? We do a fair amount of control burns in Oregon, there's often freeway/highway signage out to tell drivers not to call 9/11 it's a control burn, and much of the Oregon forest land is federally owned

As much as I dislike her, Diane Feinstein has been trying to get the feds to clean up their California forests for many years. The Sierra Club and other conservation nutjobs always sued to stop her efforts.

[Cali-Glock]

Just finished a series of text with a firefighter friend (Amador County) who told me that understanding of how to read the structures damage status website was correct, and that it was indicating that it was not listed because it was outside the fire zone itself (it basically circled around me 3200 to 1700 feet with spot fires inside that perimeter) Whoo-hoo!!

I won't count all my chickens till this is over and I can see it with my own eyes, but I feel pretty good about it!!

[Sierra57]

Originally Posted by Pinto

I just drove over the Parrotts Ferry Bridge on Monday where this fire is and NO. I've never seen the reservoir this low. Even a burn pile would be touch and go.



You can see how low the waterline is from normal.

It's been a lot lower. About 30 years ago me and a friend drove down the old road, parked and walked across the old bridge. Right now the old bridge is probably still 50-60 ft. under water. It had about 6 inches of sand on the bridge deck, and water was flowing down the old river bed. Lake level started about where the new bridge is now.

If they keep letting water out at the rate they are, we may see the old bridge some time in the fall.

[Cup of Cheese]

Originally Posted by Cali-Glock

It is FREAKING TERRIFYING. No wonder South Lake Tahoe is freaked out.

I drew the Orange line on the outside of the named roads. I don't really know Wentworth Springs - so my squiggly is VERY approximate - and not the road itself as it heads east out of Georgetown.


Control Objectives
- Keep the fire North of HWY 88 and Shake Ridge Rd
- Keep the fire South of Wentworth Springs Rd
- Keep the fire East of E16 and Fiddletown Rd
- Keep the fire West of HWY 89

They're drawing the northern line at Wentworth Springs Road? Wow!

[user120312]

Originally Posted by Cali-Glock

I won't count all my chickens till this is over and I can see it with my own eyes, but I feel pretty good about it!!

Glad to read that, hope bullet is dodged; the black turns to green soon enough and life begins anew.