Caldor Fire explodes

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by Jason_2111

Thanks for the update.
I for one, am expecting to start seeing a LOT more people showing up to the Placerville City Council meetings. As of late it's been just a dozen people, most of which are old Karens and the few libtards we have running around whining about stuff.

If people don't go and hold them accountable, they'll continue to think it's just fine to do things like not fix the roads, clean up the forest, and not remove the noose from our town's various signs.

https://placervillerecall2021.org/

There are some ticked off people for sure, but many are insane:

The liberals are spreading their INSANE completely backwards explanations for why we are having these fires. I have not been this mad in a while.

McClintock's FB feed is being swamped with liberals attacking him and playing up the usual liberal BOVINE EXCREMENT. Spewing their completely wrong ideas about why we are having fires.

I am such a huge McClintock fan - I don't have words to express it. I was a huge fan of him in the 1990s when he was a state rep out of Thousand Oaks and was out of my mind filled with joy when he "carpet bagged" his way into our district. If we ended up with a Democrat Congressman in our district that would be close to the last straw for me.

[Jason_2111]

Originally Posted by Cali-Glock

There are some ticked off people for sure, but many are insane:

The liberals are spreading their INSANE completely backwards explanations for why we are having these fires. I have not been this mad in a while.

McClintock's FB feed is being swamped with liberals attacking him and playing up the usual liberal BOVINE EXCREMENT. Spewing their completely wrong ideas about why we are having fires.

I am such a huge McClintock fan - I don't have words to express it. I was a huge fan of him in the 1990s when he was a state rep out of Thousand Oaks and was out of my mind filled with joy when he "carpet bagged" his way into our district. If we ended up with a Democrat Congressman in our district that would be close to the last straw for me.

I hear that. I'm a big fan as well... got to meet him at an NRA fundraiser one time. The guy is solid.
Dang hippies refuse to do any sort of forest management since it might endanger a beetle or something... they are all arrogant enough to think that they know better than nature.

One great site I found shows all of the fires in California at a glance since 1950. You can clearly see there's big areas of forest that have been building up fuel for the past 70 years. This was bound to happen since it's almost like a plan to get people out of the rural areas and into the cities. It won't work.

https://projects.capradio.org/califo...8.531/-122.879

I did have one friend that made it out with everything she has... she just moved into a new place two weeks ago, and hadn't even really unpacked. She loaded up everything into her truck & trailer... and got everything out in one big trip. I gave her some grief for not calling me for help... but she's super independent. She told me last night that she's not planning on going back, that she's going to find a new place. Wrong time for that... with so many displaced people, there's going to be nothing to rent for 50 miles.
More than likely, she'll be staying with me & Mrs. 2111 for a while (assuming we get through this unscathed... fingers crossed).

[FatCity67]

[Spyder]

Some of those Cal OES trucks were undoubtedly radio and comms guys. They get sent to all the big fires and live on site along with fire and leo.

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by FatCity67

Fire in Sierra Nevada Forests: A Photographic Interpretation of Ecological Change Since 1849 is an absolute must read for anyone interested in this subject.

Fire in Sierra Nevada Forests examines the woodlands through repeat photography: rephotographing sites depicted in historical photographs to compare past vegetation to present.

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by Spyder

Some of those Cal OES trucks were undoubtedly radio and comms guys. They get sent to all the big fires and live on site along with fire and leo.

Absolutely!

[FatCity67]

Wife said a man burned up in his truck around grizzly flat.

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by user120312

The flight tracking comes from this site:
https://globe.adsbexchange.com/
I'm not certain where specific aerial mapping fire data being collected can be viewed publicly. AFAIK it's proprietary information for firefighting managers to use in planning. The results may be able to be found in their planning documents, these days a little tougher to access IME than in the past.

The map shown in my sample is one of many templates which can be used, and can be coordinated with the SAR map, also very customizable, to provide specific data. I run on a mobile hotspot 24/7 and often in poor reception so use simple templates which load faster with my connection. Someone on a fast connection won't have such inhibitions. The second map is found here and can easily be slaved to GPS to provide precise links and zooms; sample:
https://sartopo.com/map.html#ll=38.6...2Cwxd_wgust-01

Thank you again!! I love ADSBexchange!! Their underlying map makes it easy for me to understand exactly where the helicopters (and airplanes) are flying and dumping!!!

I have been watching them fly right over my buddy and dumping all around him for most of the afternoon. I have been listening to the Caldor Fire comm feed on Broadcastfify. I called my on scene buddy about 4pm and could then also hear the helicopters as they flew in and then hovered for their dumps. That was pretty nifty! They have been fighting to keep the fire south of Grizzly Flat Road. From the maps, air traffic and my quick conversation with my buddy standing right there on GF road (North side) it looks like the fire has gotten at least as far west as Boo Bear Way. I was told they lost some structures along Grizzly Flat Road between Steely Ridge and Sweeney Road and more activity along and south of GF road to the East.

Mostly helicopter work, though there was at least one retardant drop on the north side of GF road.

Still dumping all through there as I make this post.

Originally Posted by FatCity67

Wife said a man burned up in his truck around grizzly flat.

If you learn anything more specific I would like to learn more. I know the EDSO is looking for a missing person in Grizzly, the nature of his disappearance did not seem clear from what I read. I'll have to start digging through the feeds.

[Tarmy]

As a victim of the Dixie fire…I followed a lot of sites to track that fire. One of the very best mapping and info sites is Zeke Lunder at The Lookout…the-lookout.org

Check out his Caldor posts…

Also, Fightradar has the best ( in my opinion) live flight data of aerial fire fighting operations…

Good luck to all suffering from that fire. There is hope…we were totally surrounded by fire for miles and our place made it…so did two other CGers that I am aware of. Scary crap having fire completely coming at you…

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by Tarmy

As a victim of the Dixie fire…I followed a lot of sites to track that fire. One of the very best mapping and info sites is Zeke Lunder at The Lookout…the-lookout.org

Check out his Caldor posts…

Also, Fightradar has the best ( in my opinion) live flight data of aerial fire fighting operations…

Good luck to all suffering from that fire. There is hope…we were totally surrounded by fire for miles and our place made it…so did two other CHers that I am aware of. Scary crap having fire completely coming at you…

Thank you!! His (https://the-lookout.org/) GoogleEarth 3D fire mapping is GREAT! I have not played with Google Earth to any extent in years - I forgot how cool it can be.

I was using FlightRadar earlier in the week - perhaps I needed to play with the settings but the underlying map was mostly terrain with few streets or other landmarks that I could recognize unless it was of a fairly tight area. Once I zoomed out to to encompass the area I wanted to track I could hardly make heads nor tails of the map. I was tracking a larger geographical area today using https://globe.adsbexchange.com/ and knew exactly where the birds were in the real world. A marriage between the two underlying maps would be ideal as the terrain map are SUPER useful, but at least the one that defaulted for me did not give me enough context.

[dunndeal]

Originally Posted by kalalp

https://www.sfgate.com/renotahoe/art...t-16392428.php

There are arsonists of all kinds up in the hills. Lots of tweakers. In my neighborhood in the foothills as well.

Arsonists should be shot on sight.

[Tarmy]

Originally Posted by dunndeal

Arsonists should be shot on sight.

Turn them over to the locals…they will take care of it…or let the fire fighters have a little time with him…

[Cali-Glock]

Yikes!

I knew this had to have happened.

Fire insurance has been challenging for many in California that live in fire prone areas. Many carriers will not insure homes in those areas leaving the California Fair Plan as the only option. I have heard prices for FIRE ONLY coverage through the California Fair Plan ranging from $5,500 to $19,000. An insurance broker friend who called to check on me said most he has seen have been about $10K a year +/- a grand or two.

Offhand I can think of three friends who I think might not have fire insurance because the California Fair Plan was too expensive - two of them lost their homes, the third still has theirs.

I just got confirmation of one of those families did not have fire insurance. They really lost everything.

EVERYTHING.

Okay they have two cars, the shirts on their backs and can probably scrounge up a pot to piss in.

It was not a giant house - probably less than 2,000 square feet - his garage was almost as big, (not quite - but big - he built it to house his motorcycle collection and construction equipment before he got married ) To keep his bride happy he did add on to their house and remodel it to her specs.

Freaking nothing. They don't have any cash squirreled away either.

He is a semi-retired contractor, so he could (probably will) try to rebuild it himself with help from friends and neighbors, but how is he going to pay for the lumber, fasteners, etc?! I wonder if you can strip burned trees and use them to build a log cabin. There will be plenty of them available for the taking - just cut off the burned exterior with a chain saw...

If my place manages to survive he can cut down and take as many of my trees as he wants.

[user120312]

I see a fair amount of debarked charred trees on logging trucks in Oregon and even ran into some in the areas north of Redding last year . Even if not seeing them, if one happens to be following such a rig, one can smell it.

IDK how it is in CA but getting loggers in ASAP to harvest standing dead fire trees is IMO good use of resources, cleans up the terrain of potential ready to re-burn dead fuel and preps for reforestation. It's healthy forest management. Let the loggers feed. They're pros at what they do.

Sorry to read about the retired contractor's place burning up, man that sucks balls. IME, usually mountain folk tend to band together in times of adversity, at least in the areas I'd scouted to live; they're pretty tight-knit. If so, people share.

Caught an interesting development on Twitter, night operations combining backfiring and water drops via helicopter....
https://twitter.com/CphilpottCraig/s...58124600807431

Looks like Strawberry is safe so far, eastward progress has slowed to a crawl. Hope the weather gods smile a bit; we could use a break.

[user120312]

Found some incident maps which appear to be updated periodically. Link to most recent 8/22 maps:
https://app.box.com/embed/s/0bzlphu7...arentPath=true
Main archive page:
https://app.box.com/embed/s/0bzlphu7...arentPath=true
ETA, haven't researched this one fully but it appears to be a .gov resource for same:
https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inci...024030_Caldor/
It may take some rummaging around but I believe those are high resolution maps Cali-Glock is seeking... sample airops map from this morning...
https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inci...24030_0823.pdf

[fishnbeer]

Looking at that map it looks like they are making a stand at jenkinson lake. Dozer lines and fuel breaks cut all around there. If the line holds, it should stop most of the westward and northern expansion

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by user120312

Found some incident maps which appear to be updated periodically. Link to most recent 8/22 maps:
https://app.box.com/embed/s/0bzlphu7...arentPath=true
Main archive page:
https://app.box.com/embed/s/0bzlphu7...arentPath=true
ETA, haven't researched this one fully but it appears to be a .gov resource for same:
https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inci...024030_Caldor/
It may take some rummaging around but I believe those are high resolution maps Cali-Glock is seeking... sample airops map from this morning...
https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inci...24030_0823.pdf

Thank you!

Your first two links look to be sub-directories of the main folder which contain all the official working docs for the fire. The daily IAP (Incident Action Plan) is supposed to be the best information available anywhere - that is what the firefighters are using day-to-day.

I'll check out the other wildfire.gov folders as well! - Thanks again!

[Cali-Glock]

Originally Posted by user120312

I see a fair amount of debarked charred trees on logging trucks in Oregon and even ran into some in the areas north of Redding last year . Even if not seeing them, if one happens to be following such a rig, one can smell it.

IDK how it is in CA but getting loggers in ASAP to harvest standing dead fire trees is IMO good use of resources, cleans up the terrain of potential ready to re-burn dead fuel and preps for reforestation. It's healthy forest management. Let the loggers feed. They're pros at what they do.

Sorry to read about the retired contractor's place burning up, man that sucks balls. IME, usually mountain folk tend to band together in times of adversity, at least in the areas I'd scouted to live; they're pretty tight-knit. If so, people share.

Caught an interesting development on Twitter, night operations combining backfiring and water drops via helicopter....
https://twitter.com/CphilpottCraig/s...58124600807431

Looks like Strawberry is safe so far, eastward progress has slowed to a crawl. Hope the weather gods smile a bit; we could use a break.

I talked with him this morning, he is in good spirits, and you are correct we are a tight-knit community something will work out. It was just kind of an eye-opening reminder that things can always be worse.

[j15w]

Spot fires all over Jenkinson right now...



Jenkinson Lake cam showing moisture... not sure if rain or tanker drops, or just a sprinkler.

http://www.slyparkweathercam.com

[Section 101]

Originally Posted by user120312

I see a fair amount of debarked charred trees on logging trucks in Oregon and even ran into some in the areas north of Redding last year . Even if not seeing them, if one happens to be following such a rig, one can smell it.

IDK how it is in CA but getting loggers in ASAP to harvest standing dead fire trees is IMO good use of resources, cleans up the terrain of potential ready to re-burn dead fuel and preps for reforestation. It's healthy forest management. Let the loggers feed. They're pros at what they do.

Sorry to read about the retired contractor's place burning up, man that sucks balls. IME, usually mountain folk tend to band together in times of adversity, at least in the areas I'd scouted to live; they're pretty tight-knit. If so, people share.

Caught an interesting development on Twitter, night operations combining backfiring and water drops via helicopter....
https://twitter.com/CphilpottCraig/s...58124600807431

Looks like Strawberry is safe so far, eastward progress has slowed to a crawl. Hope the weather gods smile a bit; we could use a break.

My family has several places in strawberry. They are currently using the meadow there for operations.

[Tarmy]

Remember that most all the sites use the same satellites…so the data is latent and about 4-5 hours old. The accuracy is within about 375m or 1000’ so the spot is in the vicinity…maybe not where shown.

[Jason_2111]

The map at night looks like good progress holding it back... Then in the morning it's more "Oh crash".

This worry is wearing me out.

But it gives me an idea for a t-shirt...

2020: covid
2021: hold my beer

[Section 101]

Originally Posted by Jason_2111

The map at night looks like good progress holding it back... Then in the morning it's more "Oh crash".

This worry is wearing me out.

But it gives me an idea for a t-shirt...

2020: covid
2021: hold my beer

The wind has been from the east at night slowing it.

[Huntsprig]

Damn it.

http://www.alertwildfire.org/sierra/...mera=Axis-Leek

[user120312]

The eastern flank is burning in virgin territory pretty much, with the 2019 Caples fire scar north of Silver Lake being only a small impediment. It's also pretty sparsely populated away from the 50 corridor and given the fire priorities my bet is they'll let it run.

On satellites, the SAR site I use gives one the option of using more accurate location-wise imagery but imagery that is more latent time-wise MODIS/VIRS, as well as less accurate, but more real time GOES imagery. The NOAA GOES image database is updated five or six times an hour so pretty fast but how that consistently propagates to the consolidating sites I'm still working on. It is faster than the MODIS/VIRS runs.

Forex, I pulled up a GOES matrix on the Caldor fire and the images are timestamped only ten minutes ago.
Here's a sample setup, currently slaved to the eastern fire flank and showing only GOES imagery.
https://sartopo.com/map.html#ll=38.7...2Cwxd_wgust-06

[Deadon]

The smoke is insane here. School was canceled.

[user120312]

Nature's bad luck, the whole Tahoe/Reno region is getting hammered with smoke off the Caldor and Dixie fires, being kinda stuck in the middle.

Check the AQI from the fire areas versus the Tahoe/Reno area...

Here's the current Carson City meter:

Source:
https://fire.airnow.gov/

[Jason_2111]

This afternoon I watched the flight radar... Got to see big tankers drop load after load on "my hot spot"... A very welcome sight!

Might just make it through this.

[Jason_2111]

Finally got some news that made me relax a little.

Just looking at zoom.earth this morning at 5:30am, I shouted HOLY ****, and immediately went into a super-sour mood. The hotspot immediately threatening The Freedom Bunker (tm) appeared to be jumping the eastern bulldozer line and making a bee-line to my front door.

After several hours of freak-out, we got a call from a buddy who's actually working that line, and he said it was a controlled burn, the line was holding.

Y'all probably heard my sigh of relief from wherever you are.... I passed out for 4 hours, and woke up with a migraine. BUT... much better news.

Apparently, and this is just one man's opinion who's busting his *** trying to save all of the houses in the area, that CalFire grossly mis-managed this, and the HotShots showed up and got a handle on things Ricky-tick.
Whether true or not, I'm thankful for whomever is working up there... we're seeing a lot of good progress.

[JagerDog]

That seems to be CalFire's MO as of late. Dixie should have been put out when it was a few acres.

[Chiefnra]

Well many dont know that CalFires ONLY hand crews are inmates and they have been cut way back. CalFire are engine crews only, and if they cant drive to it, they wont get near it.

USFS does have hand crews, such as Hot Shots, and regular crews, who will hike into the rough terrain and cut line but calfire will be sitting with their engines looking cool and banking portal to portal 24hr a day overtime.

[Sierra57]

Originally Posted by JagerDog

That seems to be CalFire's MO as of late. Dixie should have been put out when it was a few acres.

I thought that the USFS made the decision to lay back and observe the fire, since it started in El Dorado National Forest.

[user120312]

Although the thread is on the Caldor fire, documents such as this historical IAP for the Dixie fire from 7/17 exist for it as well so can be reviewed and compared.... .pdf, 19Mb file.
https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inci...09205_0717.pdf
Source:
https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inci...ucts/20210717/

[JagerDog]

“I thought that the USFS made the decision to lay back and observe the fire, since it started in El Dorado National Forest.”

I’m not sure which org, but a couple hours after they became aware of it, it was painted with retardant and some water dropped on it. There em was an access issue so they sent up a drone to inspect the effect and called it good (no threat) and beat feet.

Regardless of org it shows an incompetence of .gov.

[Tarmy]

As I said in the Dixie fire thread…watching that intensely as it surrounded my place…

Fire fighting is big business…lots of money is being made and paid….
They are outmatched by fires…if the winds pick up it is going to run.
The Dixie fire is proof that state and federal forest mismanagement is 90+% of the problem. Plumus County is litigating the USFS over this issue now.
Bad fire policy (as mentioned above)is to blame for much of this.
Our state does not fund (much) fire prevention nor management of forest lands.
Our state does not recognize the funding needed to fight these fires…it is always a reaction and emergency…like they are surprised.

Good luck to those in stressful and threatened positions. Seriously. I just went through 3 weeks of this crap…and got very lucky.

[Sierra57]

Originally Posted by JagerDog

“I thought that the USFS made the decision to lay back and observe the fire, since it started in El Dorado National Forest.”

I’m not sure which org, but a couple hours after they became aware of it, it was painted with retardant and some water dropped on it. There em was an access issue so they sent up a drone to inspect the effect and called it good (no threat) and beat feet.

Regardless of org it shows an incompetence of .gov.

It is my understanding that on the fire maps they lay the fire icon on the spot the fire started. On this fire, the icon is right near a couple of secondary roads. Translation, there was no access problem.

[JagerDog]

“It is my understanding that on the fire maps they lay the fire icon on the spot the fire started. On this fire, the icon is right near a couple of secondary roads. Translation, there was no access problem.”

There was some bridge/road construction inhibiting access.

[JagerDog]

https://www.kqed.org/news/11881837/w...e-fire-started

While lambasting PGE, this somewhat details the access. Sure, right next to secondary roads. Uh huh.

The fire was still quite small by the time some assets engaged, but then they didn’t put anymore recourse on it, using a drone to evaluate it as benign.

[Jason_2111]

I haven't verified this as true or not, but I'm hearing that people need to be under an evacuation order for 7 days in order for federal money (to the state) to kick in. Which would mean "let it burn for a while" on purpose.

If true, y'all will see me on the news screaming and organizing people.

However... I'm very away that just because it's "something I heard" doesn't mean there is any basis in reality. I need to dig into this... Lots of really angry people up here right now.

The good news is that the El Dorado Hot Shots are on scene, and my buddy from the forest service says these guys are getting it done, no bs. Fingers crossed, and more prayers that start with "Hi God, it's me again..."

[user120312]

What may be occurring here is blending the two incidents..... I posted a few weeks ago what I understood to be the ignition point of the Dixie fire and linked to a SAR map of the Cresta Dam and transmission line location the information I perused appeared to point to.
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/...&postcount=147
That's the Dixie fire.. This is the Caldor fire that apparently began in the Caldor Road area near the Big Mountain Loop just north of the middle fork of the Consumnes River and AFAIK its cause is unknown.

One can pull up the SAR/USFS topo maps, Cal-fire incident operation maps and Google maps to combine data into an overall picture of the area of suspected ignition. If it is in the Caldor Road area, there are apparently forms of improved roads in that area, the maps detail road type. They could be fire roads, USFS roads, secondary roads, dirt roads, etc.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/b.../data=!3m1!1e3
https://sartopo.com/map.html#ll=38.6...056&z=15&b=mbt
https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/inci...CH%20I_opt.pdf