Randall's "match ammo is too expensive" list.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by freonr22

I lubed 1500 cases last night w/ imeprial. two fingers in the can, put on palms, repeated 3x over the batch and grabbed fistfuls of cases squeezing, then tumbled by hand, just a light coat on all in 2-3 minutes so that can has lubed 6000 cases and still have about 25% left

If you are only going to lube 8000 cases out of a can of imperial, you are using way too much lube.

[freonr22]

Probable Randall, its probably a sloppy way, but a can is only $6

[Lancear15]

Thanks guys, just waiting for my back ordered primers and powder. Then I'll be pumping out some 240g SMK 300RUM match grade rounds pronto.

[nn3453]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

Slide your pointing finger on the wax.
Roll case between two fingers like this:

You have nice hands.

[DirtRacer151]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

Redding Type S Match Bushing 2-Die Set 308 Winchester 129.99
Product #: 271533

I sent back my 308 dies to Midway and need to order the .260 dies. Why are you recommending a FL sizing die instead of a neck sizer?

[rksimple]

Originally Posted by DirtRacer151

I sent back my 308 dies to Midway and need to order the .260 dies. Why are you recommending a FL sizing die instead of a neck sizer?

Neck sizing is kind of overrated for what we do. And you can adjust the FL die to just size the neck if you so desire. The Redding FL bushing die leaves just the smallest section of the neck unsized so you get some of the purported benefits of neck sizing.

In our game, reliability is job one. That means FL sizing.

[DirtRacer151]

Originally Posted by rksimple

Neck sizing is kind of overrated for what we do. And you can adjust the FL die to just size the neck if you so desire. The Redding FL bushing die leaves just the smallest section of the neck unsized so you get some of the purported benefits of neck sizing.

In our game, reliability is job one. That means FL sizing.

Wow.. so even at the cost of less brass life and having to lube all the cases? It seems that neck sizing would help with accuracy and i don't ever remember having any problems neck sizing in my Tikkas. Stiff bolt handles once in a great while but not to the point it presented a problem.

I think i'd rather take the benefits of neck sizing over the reliability side of it. Im not putting my life on the line at CaPRC.... at least until Randall creates a stage where the Jackrabbits fire back at us!

But i guess if the Redding die can be adjusted to do both why not just get it!!??

BTW i was really looking forward to not needing to FL size for a Auto Loader!!! Can't you tell?

[rksimple]

Less brass life is a myth...if you size correctly. You'll get loose primer pockets or split necks before a case head separation. The reliability part of it is self explanatory. Once you start competing and points matter to you, reliability becomes more important.

In all of my rifles, I have seen no difference in accuracy between FL and neck sizing. If you had a benchrest rifle with a tight, neck turn chamber, and were as a shooter, able to shoot in the .2's consistently, then you may notice a difference.

[DirtRacer151]

Originally Posted by rksimple

Less brass life is a myth...if you size correctly. You'll get loose primer pockets or split necks before a case head separation. The reliability part of it is self explanatory. Once you start competing and points matter to you, reliability becomes more important.

In all of my rifles, I have seen no difference in accuracy between FL and neck sizing. If you had a benchrest rifle with a tight, neck turn chamber, and were as a shooter, able to shoot in the .2's consistently, then you may notice a difference.

Makes sense. So i guess that means im back to lubing cases

Thanks for the explanation

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by DirtRacer151

I think i'd rather take the benefits of neck sizing over the reliability side of it.

Don't ever take anything over reliability.
Reliability is more important than anything else.

I would have thought that YOU, of all people, would understand that.

[DirtRacer151]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

Don't ever take anything over reliability.
Reliability is more important than anything else.

I would have thought that YOU, of all people, would understand that.

I do understand that in terms of firearms themselves. I am only really seeing a benefit to ammo reliability in cambering and cycling though. Am i missing something?

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by DirtRacer151

I do understand that in terms of firearms themselves. I am only really seeing a benefit to ammo reliability in cambering and cycling though. Am i missing something?

You can't hit something when you are fidgeting with the gun, trying to get a round to chamber...

[DirtRacer151]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

You can't hit something when you are fidgeting with the gun, trying to get a round to chamber...

Got it. Thats what i figured. Wait....

Wouldn't i be better off with an auto loader then so it will just chamber my rounds for me?


Im my case it probably wont matter anyway cause im still not going to hit it.

Going to order the FL die set as soon as my credit gets processed at Midway. Any tips for lubing with the Redding dies?

[bombadillo]

Thanks for posting this up Randall. This is great info for us reloading newbs. I've been shooting factory ammo for so long and my wife is finally ok with me getting some reloading stuff to save some money and get more accurate.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by DirtRacer151

Going to order the FL die set as soon as my credit gets processed at Midway. Any tips for lubing with the Redding dies?

Getting the Redding type S full length die and the Comp seater.
Measure some loaded neck diameters and drop down 0.001" and 0.002" on bushing size.
Get Imperial sizing die wax and slide your pointer finger across the tub every other round, then roll the case body between your pointer finger and thumb to distribute the wax on to the case.

[Pthfndr]

Originally Posted by DirtRacer151

Stiff bolt handles once in a great while but not to the point it presented a problem.

I think i'd rather take the benefits of neck sizing over the reliability side of it.

When you are firing from an unusual position, such as from the weak side, barricade, or sling supported position, and the time limit requires you to take an aimed accurate shot almost every second, ease of extraction (reliability) becomes paramount.

It's why most people shooting the tactical rifle game FL size vs neck size.

[5150Marcelo]

Randall, when is your next group buy for powder (varget)?

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by 5150Marcelo

Randall, when is your next group buy for powder (varget)?

haha, I don't do group buys much anymore.
Ryan just called me this morning to say that H4350 was in stock and I told him to fill up a Hazmat tage and we would split it.
So we ordered 4 jugs, just for the two of us.

If you need some varget, I could probably let loose of an 8lb'r for $150.

[5150Marcelo]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

haha, I don't do group buys much anymore.
Ryan just called me this morning to say that H4350 was in stock and I told him to fill up a Hazmat tage and we would split it.
So we ordered 4 jugs, just for the two of us.

If you need some varget, I could probably let loose of an 8lb'r for $150.

sending PM...

Im gonna start loadin up some 22-250 and 223. Tips and info appreciated. LOL

[rksimple]

Originally Posted by 5150Marcelo

sending PM...

Im gonna start loadin up some 22-250 and 223. Tips and info appreciated. LOL

I have some Varget for sale. Need to pay off that 4350 lol. I'll PM you.

[wildcard]

I don't even own neck sizing dies and I reload most of my brass about 10X. Shoots pretty accurate too!

Shoot the brass about 3 times and "neck size only" with your FL dies. By that time the brass should be chambering real snug. Turn you FL dies 1/16 turn increments and size until it chambers with just the slightest bit of resistance. Works for me.

I can't get as many loading out of my 338 Lapua brass. 6 Loading and the paper clip tells me I can probably squeeze out another 1 or 2.

[Darklyte27]

randall, whats your suggestion for a mid range *150-500$max* single or progressive press? I got all the S type match dies already but the lee press i have now is a bit slow and has some play. what do ya say?

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by Darklyte27

randall, whats your suggestion for a mid range *150-500$max* single or progressive press? I got all the S type match dies already but the lee press i have now is a bit slow and has some play. what do ya say?

Personally, I use a Lee Classic Cast for most of my single stage sizing now.
It's the only press I own that I did not feel bad about bolting to the bench on my back porch and letting it rust.

After the cases are sized, I am seating bullets with an arbor press.



Since you have to lube cases before sizing and then remove the lube before loading, and then individually weigh your charges, you don't really save any time loading precision rifle ammo on a progressive press.

Now, for blasting grade ammo, a progressive is absolutely the way to go.
Look at a Dillon 550 or 650 with my nod going to the fully setup 650 with a casefeeder.
Of course this blows your $500 budget right out of the water.

For a good single stage press, look at the RCBS Rockchucker or perhaps a Forester Bonanza press.

[DirtRacer151]

Got my Redding Dies today for the .260 and have a question. If im supposed to measure a loaded round and subtract .001" to order the proper bushings then how do i load my first rounds up from virgin brass when im assuming i'll need to run them through the die and the whole brass prep process first?

Will the virgin brass have enough neck tension to get me by for my first loading?

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by DirtRacer151

Will the virgin brass have enough neck tension to get me by for my first loading?

The virgin brass will actually have more neck tension than you need.
I run an expander into new cases to open them up slightly and make them round.
I would suggest using either dry lube inside the case necks before you do this, or tumble them to deposit some walnut/corn dust on them.
This will help keep the expander from sticking in the necks.

Your bushing sizer should have come with the expander button installed on the decapping stem and an extra knurled sleeve that replaces the expander for later when you use only the bushing to size the neck.

[DirtRacer151]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

The virgin brass will actually have more neck tension than you need.
I run an expander into new cases to open them up slightly and make them round.
I would suggest using either dry lube inside the case necks before you do this, or tumble them to deposit some walnut/corn dust on them.
This will help keep the expander from sticking in the necks.

Ok so providing the virgin brass will chamber in my gun (when its done) i should just adjust the die out so it doesn't bump the shoulder and with no bushing inside just so the expander will open them up and then measure the loaded rounds for the bushing for next time?

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

Your bushing sizer should have come with the expander button installed on the decapping stem and an extra knurled sleeve that replaces the expander for later when you use only the bushing to size the neck.

Yes it does

Im what circumstances would i NOT want the expander? It would seem that even when neck sizing that the expander would ensure everything stayed round incase the cases were dinged up after ejection. I was wondering why they gave me that extra sleeve when i opened the box.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by DirtRacer151

Ok so providing the virgin brass will chamber in my gun (when its done) i should just adjust the die out so it doesn't bump the shoulder and with no bushing inside just so the expander will open them up and then measure the loaded rounds for the bushing for next time?

Im what circumstances would i NOT want the expander? It would seem that even when neck sizing that the expander would ensure everything stayed round incase the cases were dinged up after ejection.

You could leave the die 1-2 turns away from the shellholder for neck expanding purposes.
You won't need to move the shoulder back.
Bring a few cases when you come for the barrel install so I can make sure to chamber deep enough that new cases fit easily.

Once you fire the cases, you will remove the expander button and use only the bushing to re-size the neck diameter.
The case mouths end up being round after the busing sizes them.
At this point, you will also want to properly adjust the sizing die to bump the shoulder back 0.001" or so.

[DirtRacer151]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

You could leave the die 1-2 turns away from the shellholder for neck expanding purposes.
You won't need to move the shoulder back.
Bring a few cases when you come for the barrel install so I can make sure to chamber deep enough that new cases fit easily.

Once you fire the cases, you will remove the expander button and use only the bushing to re-size the neck diameter.
The case mouths end up being round after the busing sizes them.
At this point, you will also want to properly adjust the sizing die to bump the shoulder back 0.001" or so.

Got it. So if the mouths get dented just running them through the bushing with no expander will still round them back out.

I'll need to order my brass this week too then to bring you some since i have been waiting till i got closer to actually shooting it. I guess i need to start prepping soon anyway.

Can you tell i've been using nothing but Lee dies for the last 3 years

[Joe226]

What happened to this thread I was going to use it as a reference to start buying all the things I need to reload.

[rksimple]

Have patience. It'll be back.

[joe_lafrieda]

Originally Posted by Joe226

What happened to this thread I was going to use it as a reference to start buying all the things I need to reload.

OP got his panties in a twist over something. Took his ball and went home....

[Z ME FLY]

Originally Posted by joe_lafrieda

OP got his panties in a twist over something. Took his ball and went home....

I wouldn't really say that, unless you know the story you probably shouldn't say anything.

[Joe226]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

haha, I don't do group buys much anymore.
Ryan just called me this morning to say that H4350 was in stock and I told him to fill up a Hazmat tage and we would split it.
So we ordered 4 jugs, just for the two of us.

If you need some varget, I could probably let loose of an 8lb'r for $150.

Do you use H4350 for reloading .308? If so, how come? I thought that varget or 8208 XBR would be better for reloading .308.

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by Joe226

Do you use H4350 for reloading .308? If so, how come? I thought that varget or 8208 XBR would be better for reloading .308.

Varget for 308 with 155's
H4350 for 260 with 142's
H4831SC for 243 with 115's

[Joe226]

ar15Barrels I have been debating on whether to get the Frankford Arsenal case tumbler or the RCBS. Have you owned either of the two? Not taking the price into consideration which one would you recommend and why? I have the same questions about the Redding dies compared to RCBS's high end dies or any other brands. I would really appreciate your input.
Thanks, Joe

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by Joe226

ar15Barrels I have been debating on whether to get the Frankford Arsenal case tumbler or the RCBS. Have you owned either of the two? Not taking the price into consideration which one would you recommend and why? I have the same questions about the Redding dies compared to RCBS's high end dies or any other brands. I would really appreciate your input.
Thanks, Joe

Midway used to sell their own branded tumbler that was made by the same maker as the whole frankford arsenal brand.
I had two of those old tumblers and I worked the piss out of them.
There were times that I left them on for 2 weeks or more at a time and they just kept going and going.
The only things that ever happened were the wires breaking off right at the motor which stopped the motor until you re-do the connection.
I also burned out a couple motors which midway always replaced under warranty.
I have never used an RCBS tumbler.

The fit and finish of the redding benchrest dies is above all other mass produced 7/8-14 threaded dies on the market.
Nobody else even comes close until you start buying custom dies from small makers.

[Joe226]

Thanks for the info I really appreciate it. I think I am going to order all of the things on your list soon. The RCBS 1500 and the Frankford tumbler are on sale from Midway so I figure I'll just buy most of the things from there to save a little on shipping.

Thanks Again, Joe

[Agent Tikki]

If you run your "good stuff" setup, about how long does it take to make 100 rounds start to finish? How much time does it take to tumble 100 brass? Anyone have a picture of their setup?

[ar15barrels]

In the very beginning it will take you around 3 hours to load 100 rounds of match grade rifle ammo.
As you get more experienced, it will probably be an hour and a half to 2 hours.
That's all inclusive; sizing, priming, charging and seating.
It takes a few hours to tumble the brass, but you don't have to monitor that so I don't keep track of that time.

[Nessal]

Originally Posted by fusionstar

FYI the

Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-EZ Case Tumbler Master Kit 73.99
Product #: 414369

is a total piece of crap. Burned the motor in less than 40 hours of usage with 2 hour each tumble.
The bucket sifter throws media outside because it does not come with a lid.

My frankford tumbler has been working for 2 years now and never had a hiccup. I have countless hours on the thing and it tumbles as well as new.

The media separator on the other hand works, but there are many other ones out there that works a lot better in preventing the media from spilling out.