Miller v. Bonta, SDCA - "assault weapons"

[Solidsnake87]

So, is the injunction hearing on the 29th still? Or, has it been rescheduled for 2/6? It seems like every time something happens, dates get pushed back. These add up. :/

[Brentzig]

Am I reading correctly here... pushed back to 2/6/2020?

Edit: saw post above. Thinking it's pushed back as replies are due 1/30/2020

[NorCalRT]

Awesome!!!

[ShadowGuy]

Since IANAL, can someone explain?

[Mandingo27]

For anybody asking this has to do with the "assault weapons" California has defined such as common use rifles with cosmetic features, Ar pistols, ak pistols and other such pistol in that variant and I'm also guessing handguns with threaded barrels? If we win we will be able to have whatever free America has such as regular ol ar/ak pistols without maglocks. If I'm wrong please chime in as I am not a lawyer

[mshill]

Originally Posted by Mandingo27

If we win we will be able to have whatever free America has such as regular ol ar/ak pistols without maglocks. If I'm wrong please chime in as I am not a lawyer

If we win it will be appealed, then we will lose. So, no.

[aBrowningfan]

Originally Posted by Garrett52

How would this work with ar pistols? If you own a semi auto ar pistol would you be able to remove the mag lock and run 10+ round mags?

Didn't you buy any 30 rounders during magazine freedom week?

[aBrowningfan]

Originally Posted by mshill

If we win it will be appealed, then we will lose. So, no.

I doubt the CA-DoJ will want to repeat their experience appealing the magazine PI while the case is being litigated at the trial court.

[aBrowningfan]

Originally Posted by Mandingo27

For anybody asking this has to do with the "assault weapons" California has defined such as common use rifles with cosmetic features, Ar pistols, ak pistols and other such pistol in that variant and I'm also guessing handguns with threaded barrels? If we win we will be able to have whatever free America has such as regular ol ar/ak pistols without maglocks. If I'm wrong please chime in as I am not a lawyer

The win you are defining would have to survive appeal. I would expect that the present ban on owning AWs would be enjoined, similar to how the ban on owning magazines with a capacity > 10 rounds was enjoined for the duration of the trial proceeding. Does the PI permit new purchases? Probably not. Conversions of featureless to featured would probably fly, since the PI would probably apply to the features that caused a rifle with the features to be banned.

One thing I am curious about - whether the magnets that circumvent the bullet button function would be legal under the PI, if it issues. Or, do you have to replace the bullet button in its entirety?

[Sputnik]

Originally Posted by aBrowningfan

The win you are defining would have to survive appeal. I would expect that the present ban on owning AWs would be enjoined, similar to how the ban on owning magazines with a capacity > 10 rounds was enjoined for the duration of the trial proceeding. Does the PI permit new purchases? Probably not. Conversions of featureless to featured would probably fly, since the PI would probably apply to the features that caused a rifle with the features to be banned.

One thing I am curious about - whether the magnets that circumvent the bullet button function would be legal under the PI, if it issues. Or, do you have to replace the bullet button in its entirety?

Does anyone still have bullet buttons? Since they no longer served their intended purpose mine came off. But I'd love to have my pistol grips back, please.

[GunnEnvy]

Originally Posted by Sputnik

Does anyone still have bullet buttons? Since they no longer served their intended purpose mine came off. But I'd love to have my pistol grips back, please.

My Tavor is dying to lose its fin grip and 4" muzzle break!

[Transient]

Originally Posted by mshill

If we win it will be appealed, then we will lose. So, no.

.... and then it'll be appealed, and so forth until SCOTUS grants or denies cert

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[SigAlert]

Tagged.

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by aBrowningfan

The win you are defining would have to survive appeal. I would expect that the present ban on owning AWs would be enjoined, similar to how the ban on owning magazines with a capacity > 10 rounds was enjoined for the duration of the trial proceeding. Does the PI permit new purchases? Probably not. Conversions of featureless to featured would probably fly, since the PI would probably apply to the features that caused a rifle with the features to be banned.

One thing I am curious about - whether the magnets that circumvent the bullet button function would be legal under the PI, if it issues. Or, do you have to replace the bullet button in its entirety?

A PI for one week, like freedom week would create havoc on the state since ALL GUNS under the category would be deemed legally obtained.

If the State won on appeal and up to SCOTUS, it would create a nightmare for the state since they could really only open up a new AW registration period again.

[TFA777]

Originally Posted by aBrowningfan

Didn't you buy any 30 rounders during magazine freedom week?

Whether you own any is irrelevant. You can't have more than 10 rounds in a fixed mag config, otherwise it becomes an AW.

[Garrett52]

Originally Posted by TFA777

Whether you own any is irrelevant. You can't have more than 10 rounds in a fixed mag config, otherwise it becomes an AW.

Exactly, but this would change that. I guess I should hurry up and buy the ar pistols haha

[chrish4ku]

Key Events & Filings:

2020-1-15: NOTICE of Change of Motion Hearing as to [16-1] MOTION to Dismiss for Lack of Jurisdiction Certain Claims in First Amended Complaint, [16-2] MOTION to Dismiss for Failure to State a Claim, [22-1] MOTION for Preliminary Injunction and Declaratory Relief: Motion Hearing reset for 2/6/2020 02:00 PM in Courtroom 5A before Judge Roger T. Benitez. Opposition briefs are to be filed no later than 1/23/2020. All reply briefs are to be filed no later than 1/30/2020. (no document attached) (gxr) (Entered: 01/15/2020)

2020-1-15: Minute Order issued by the Honorable Roger T. Benitez: DENYING 25 Motion to Stay Proceedings Pending Resolution of Related Appeals; DENYING 27 Ex Parte Motion to Stay re 16 Motion to Dismiss for Lack of Jurisdiction Certain Claims in First Amended Complaint Motion to Dismiss for Failure to State a Claim, 22 Motion for Preliminary Injunction and Declaratory Relief Pending Ruling on Defendants' Motion to Stay. (no document attached) (gxr) (Entered: 01/15/2020)

[chrish4ku]

Originally Posted by Garrett52

Exactly, but this would change that. I guess I should hurry up and buy the ar pistols haha

I like the thinking here....

[Uncivil Engineer]

Originally Posted by chrish4ku

I like the thinking here....

Franklin has one on the roster.

[Garrett52]

Originally Posted by Uncivil Engineer

Franklin has one on the roster.

There are a few FFL's that can still manufacture them as well. You have to buy them complete though.

[aBrowningfan]

Originally Posted by TFA777

Whether you own any is irrelevant. You can't have more than 10 rounds in a fixed mag config, otherwise it becomes an AW.

Under Garrett52's hypothetical scenario, I believe the fixed magazine was part of the featureless configuration. If a PI enjoined the enforcement of AR 'features', wouldn't enforcement of the mag lock be enjoined?

[aBrowningfan]

Originally Posted by taperxz

A PI for one week, like freedom week would create havoc on the state since ALL GUNS under the category would be deemed legally obtained.

If we use the magazine ban PI as a model for an AW PI, my understanding is that no new AWs could be purchased, but enforcement of the features that make a firearm an AW would be enjoined. If I am correct, it would seem that folks who owned featureless firearms that could be converted into AWs, could make the conversion and be free from enforcement of the PC relating to AWs. But would new purchases of featureless firearms which are then converted to featured AWs be legit? If so, CA-DoJ would go apesh*t.

If the State won on appeal and up to SCOTUS, it would create a nightmare for the state since they could really only open up a new AW registration period again.

If the State won on appeal at SCotUS (either through an outright win or through denial of cert from the CA9), how would that require them to open up a new AW registration period? I would expect their position to be that the folks who converted their featureless firearms to featured should just convert them back to featureless.

I think the ultimate nightmare scenario would be if the State lost at SCotUS. In that scenario, there basically would be no limit on purchasing AWs again (pre-2000 days).

[highroad]

Do have a CA9 which is in fixed mag configuration. Any speculation as to whether those with RAW (BB or otherwise) should be hoarding lowers...per obligatory 30-days of course? BB especially are especially inconvenient. Even more so on AK and similar platforms.

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by aBrowningfan

If the State won on appeal at SCotUS (either through an outright win or through denial of cert from the CA9), how would that require them to open up a new AW registration period? I would expect their position to be that the folks who converted their featureless firearms to featured should just convert them back to featureless.

I think the ultimate nightmare scenario would be if the State lost at SCotUS. In that scenario, there basically would be no limit on purchasing AWs again (pre-2000 days).

With a PI and the length of time it would take to get a SCOTUS decision i would venture to guess that the SCOTUS would allow people grandfathered in would not be subject to a taking by the state.

Not to mention, a SCOTUS ruling in favor of the state would leave open that law to the rest of the country and that ain't happening in todays court

[JCHavasu]

Originally Posted by mshill

If we win it will be appealed, then we will lose. So, no.

Originally Posted by Transient

.... and then it'll be appealed, and so forth until SCOTUS grants or denies cert

This. We want cases like this to get to SCOTUS to put an end to this that will cover the entire US, not just regions. Hopefully it gets there, and hopefully, RBG is not on the court when it arrives.

[aBrowningfan]

Originally Posted by taperxz

With a PI and the length of time it would take to get a SCOTUS decision i would venture to guess that the SCOTUS would allow people grandfathered in would not be subject to a taking by the state.

I could see SCotUS maintaining a PI until they could rule on the merits if they granted cert. But reversing before ruling seems highly unlikely.

Not to mention, a SCOTUS ruling in favor of the state would leave open that law to the rest of the country and that ain't happening in todays court

Wait until the NYSR&PA case is decided. I don't like getting out in front of my skis. Roberts could still go squish or they could decide the case is moot.

[paddyraid]

Originally Posted by GunnEnvy

My Tavor is dying to lose its fin grip and 4" muzzle break!

How many times have you burned the **** out of your thumb after a bunch of rounds? At least on an AR I can still wrap my thumb around with the proper fin or I can rest it on the shelf of the SI fin grip or the Exile machine miad grip backstrap fin. that X95 fin grip though just sucks balls. nowhere to put my thumb except sticking up in the air.

[Echo4kilo]

Originally Posted by Sputnik

Does anyone still have bullet buttons? Since they no longer served their intended purpose mine came off. But I'd love to have my pistol grips back, please.

Yes, lots of people still have bulletbuttons. That was the whole point of the recent AW Registration. You kept all your features but had to keep on the BB. Of course it does not mean much since a slight turn of a radlock BB and a 60 round drum makes the whole thing pointless. Also, anything purchased after 2014 is registered anyway

[Echo4kilo]

Originally Posted by Garrett52

Exactly, but this would change that. I guess I should hurry up and buy the ar pistols haha

You can’t buy them....

[Sputnik]

Originally Posted by Echo4kilo

Yes, lots of people still have bulletbuttons. That was the whole point of the recent AW Registration. You kept all your features but had to keep on the BB. Of course it does not mean much since a slight turn of a radlock BB and a 60 round drum makes the whole thing pointless. Also, anything purchased after 2014 is registered anyway

Of course, BB RAWs, how could I forget? doh!

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by Echo4kilo

You can’t buy them....

Yes you can.

https://franklinarmory.com/amp/frank...lifornia-only/

[Garrett52]

Originally Posted by taperxz

Yes you can.

https://franklinarmory.com/amp/frank...lifornia-only/

This.. and there are a few ffls that can still sell them legally in California. Fixed mag though

[Solidsnake87]

Originally Posted by Garrett52

This.. and there are a few ffls that can still sell them legally in California. Fixed mag though

The CA7 is a detachable mag bolt action ar pistol.

[Garrett52]

Originally Posted by Solidsnake87

The CA7 is a detachable mag bolt action ar pistol.

I meant that there are ffls that can still sell complete ar pistols they manufactured as fixed mag. They can be converted to semi-auto after purchase.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...ler-v-becerra/

[Dirk Tungsten]

Originally Posted by Garrett52

I meant that there are ffls that can still sell complete ar pistols they manufactured as fixed mag. They can be converted to semi-auto after purchase.

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...ler-v-becerra/

The DOJ now treats this as manufacturing an unsafe handgun, so I don't believe it's legal to do so. Anyone considering going down this road should think twice about it.

[WellRegulated]

Originally Posted by Dirk Tungsten

The DOJ now treats this as manufacturing an unsafe handgun, so I don't believe it's legal to do so. Anyone considering going down this road should think twice about it.

No they don't. It specifically says "MAY" on the website because there is no PC that would prohibit someone from doing it.

[Manzo]

So category 1 AW are a no go?

[mshill]

Originally Posted by Echo4kilo

Yes, lots of people still have bulletbuttons. That was the whole point of the recent AW Registration. You kept all your features but had to keep on the BB. Of course it does not mean much since a slight turn of a radlock BB and a 60 round drum makes the whole thing pointless. Also, anything purchased after 2014 is registered anyway

^^^^^^ this. All of my BBRAWs and fixed magazine firearms can be reverted to free state mode in about one minute each. If there is no time for that I can just grab one of my featureless rifles and pop a freedom week pmag60 into it and follow it up with a bunch of freedom week pmag 30s if needed.

[axhoaxho]

Tagged.

[blubullett]

Originally Posted by GunnEnvy

My Tavor is dying to lose its fin grip and 4" muzzle break!

I don't think this will make SBR's legal in CA. You would still need a federal tax stamp and to get a tax stamp in CA you have to have a CA dangerous weapons permit, which CA will not give you and is not covered by the assault weapons law being challenged.