Miller v. Bonta, SDCA - "assault weapons"

[SlickSlinky]

Am I wrong in thinking that even if this does get ruled in our favor, the microstamping requirement would still make any new firearms unavailable? I guess I could buy a threaded barrel, but I would really love a new two tone Beretta M9A3.

Should they also have noted that California has allowed LEOs to legally purchase what is considered an AW?

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by SlickSlinky

Am I wrong in thinking that even if this does get ruled in our favor, the microstamping requirement would still make any new firearms unavailable? I guess I could buy a threaded barrel, but I would really love a new two tone Beretta M9A3.

Should they also have noted that California has allowed LEOs to legally purchase what is considered an AW?

So you’re mistaken as Miller has little to do with the roster. (See Pena). AND!

LEOs are NOT exempt from the AW laws. Department can purchase for duty use and any LEO individual getting an AW must have prior approval and endorsement of the Department declaring it for duty use only. Additionally, they can’t keep that AW after leaving the Dept or retiring. The must surrender it to the Dept or make it featureless and de register it in order to keep it.

[sfvshooter]

I usually get an email from CRPA when something worthwhile occurs. I haven't received anything in the last few days.

[SlickSlinky]

Originally Posted by taperxz

So you’re mistaken as Miller has little to do with the roster. (See Pena). AND!

LEOs are NOT exempt from the AW laws. Department can purchase for duty use and any LEO individual getting an AW must have prior approval and endorsement of the Department declaring it for duty use only. Additionally, they can’t keep that AW after leaving the Dept or retiring. The must surrender it to the Dept or make it featureless and de register it in order to keep it.

You are right, the AWB and the roster would have to be overturned to get the pistol that I would like to get.

But they still have a way to get what the state considers an AW and have it in use legally. Where, if I were to have the same modifications, then it is illegal and I go to jail. Its a two tier system and should be argued in my opinion.

[taperxz]

Originally Posted by SlickSlinky

You are right, the AWB and the roster would have to be overturned to get the pistol that I would like to get.

But they still have a way to get what the state considers an AW and have it in use legally. Where, if I were to have the same modifications, then it is illegal and I go to jail. Its a two tier system and should be argued in my opinion.

Military and LE are already exempt from Federal NFA laws so that would bea federal issue

[FirearmFino]

NOTICE of Change of Hearing on 16 MOTION to Dismiss for Lack of Jurisdiction Certain Claims in First Amended Complaint MOTION to Dismiss for Failure to State a Claim : Motion Hearing reset for 1/16/2020 10:00 AM in Courtroom 5A before Judge Roger T. Benitez. (no document attached) (gxr) (Entered: 12/10/2019)

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket...ler-v-becerra/

[GPMG Gunner]

I’ll offer this;

If Judge Benitez rules in our favor (very possible) and the same thing occurs with the magazine ban injunction (that resulted in freedom week - again, a possibility), then I predict the following two things will occur:

1. Millions of modern rifles formerly called “assault weapons” will flood into California, and you won’t be able to find a lower or semi auto to save your life on gun store shelves. However , due to the 10 day wait, a week of freedom won’t be enough. The beneficiaries of the injunction will be CURRENT owners of modern rifles.
2. If the same thing occurs with the AWCA that happened with magazines, the net effect will be that the law that controls assault weapons will be unenforceable. Just like it is with magazines. The defense of, “I made, bought, imported, transported, or modified X during freedom week” will be a legal shield from prosecution. They may even be forced to open the registration rolls again.

It won’t be about keeping bullet buttons. This will be about having rifles in their free configuration.

And one more thing; the 9th is no longer a sure vote for the antis. It’s about 50/50 now, most of those are Trump judges. We will have to wait and see.

I think this case gives the antis far more to worry about than NY vs. NYSRPA

[Betfair39]

i know this is out of topic but why there is no litigation about NFA items (Silencers SBR AR Pistols) in California right now?

[everyday_hero]

Remember when distributors made it clear that freedom magazines had to be shipped separately from CA compliant firearms. My educated guess is this time the option will be any feature will become lawful to order.

[shungokusatsu]

Does this have any impact on the list of rifles banned by name? Cuz you know, KAC and all.

[GPMG Gunner]

Originally Posted by shungokusatsu

Does this have any impact on the list of rifles banned by name? Cuz you know, KAC and all.

Unknown, but the lawsuit attacks the AWCA as a whole, so Category 1, 2, and 3 weapons could be struck - depending entirely on how far Judge Benitez goes with his ruling, assuming it’s favorable. Features have to do with category 3, and a lot of language in the lawsuit addresses this.

If Judge Benitez rules the entire AWCA unconstitutional, Katie bar the door.

If category 1 weapons are struck, you could go buy a PSG-1. If Category 2 weapons are struck, yes you could go buy that SR-10 or SR-15 (or even a RIS, because that railed fore end part is on that list too)

[GPMG Gunner]

Originally Posted by Betfair39

i know this is out of topic but why there is no litigation about NFA items (Silencers SBR AR Pistols) in California right now?

Here’s why - money. It costs money to go to court, and because of this reality good judgement must be exercised as to what and when you want to fight. We have more pressing issues in California, primarily around the question of, “does the average citizen have the right to possess, carry, and use a modern weapon in defense of ones life, property, and society?” We say yes, the state says no.

A silver lining is that AR pistols are not NFA items, so if the AWCA is struck and the roster is successfully defeated, you could own that without challenging the NFA.

If you still want NFA items, there’s always the option of moving to where they are legal, or the possibility of carefully setting up a NFA trust out of state and securing a means to store the item safely. You can also own AOW and DD in California right now, as long as they don’t run afoul of existing California statutes.

[Uncivil Engineer]

Originally Posted by GPMG Gunner

Unknown, but the lawsuit attacks the AWCA as a whole, so Category 1, 2, and 3 weapons could be struck - depending entirely on how far Judge Benitez goes with his ruling, assuming it’s favorable. Features have to do with category 3, and a lot of language in the lawsuit addresses this.



If Judge Benitez rules the entire AWCA unconstitutional, Katie bar the door.



If category 1 weapons are struck, you could go buy a PSG-1. If Category 2 weapons are struck, yes you could go buy that SR-10 or SR-15 (or even a RIS, because that railed fore end part is on that list too)

You are getting a M107A1, and you and you,.. we are all getting BMGs... Hurray.

[Murder]

Originally Posted by GPMG Gunner

1. Millions of modern rifles formerly called “assault weapons” will flood into California, and you won’t be able to find a lower or semi auto to save your life on gun store shelves. However , due to the 10 day wait, a week of freedom won’t be enough. The beneficiaries of the injunction will be CURRENT owners of modern rifles. A

I don't think so. From what I remember, as long as you PURCHASED it within that week it would still be honored; you could have received your mags a month later and it wouldn't have mattered. I'm assuming the same will happen with this.

[morrcarr67]

Originally Posted by GPMG Gunner

........

If you still want NFA items, there’s always the option of moving to where they are legal, or the possibility of carefully setting up a NFA trust out of state and securing a means to store the item safely. You can also own AOW and DD in California right now, as long as they don’t run afoul of existing California statutes.

I thought you needed a DD permit from the state of CA and the odds of you getting one was slim to none.

[FirearmFino]

NOTICE OF ERRATA RE: PLAINTIFFS MOTION FOR PRELIMINARY INJUNCTION

DEFENDANTS’ NOTICE OF MOTION AND MOTION TO STAY PROCEEDINGS PENDING RESOLUTION OF RELATED APPEALS

MEMORANDUM OF POINTS AND AUTHORITIES IN SUPPORT OF DEFENDANTS’ MOTION TO STAY PROCEEDINGS PENDING RESOLUTION OF RELATED APPEALS

[KINGZ06]

If the AWB is overturned for a week lets say, will the Bushmaster XM15 become available?

[Echidin]

Would someone who is familiar with litigation terminology mind translating?

[FirearmFino]

Originally Posted by Echidin

Would someone who is familiar with litigation terminology mind translating?

The state is asking the judge to pause this case while the Duncan and Rupp cases go through the 9th Circuit.

[Echidin]

Originally Posted by FirearmFino

The state is asking the judge to pause this case while the Duncan and Rupp cases go through the 9th Circuit.

Thank you. Any reason to think Judge Benitez would be in favor of the state’s request?

[ARFrog]

Originally Posted by A-J

For threads like this, I assume a majority of folks here are like me and do not want to clutter it with replies that are not relevant or on point. Make no mistake - the people that care about the issue are watching the thread closely, as I assume the opposition is.

Originally Posted by Echidin

Would someone who is familiar with litigation terminology mind translating?

Not familiar as a practitioner but my impression of the request for stay is:

- delay
- obfuscate
- whine to the Court that it is a lot of work to respond to various litigation caused by multiple pending 2A suits - so can't we just put it all off until an action of the CADOJ's choosing is finalized

...but what do I know

[local_nobody]

Originally Posted by Echidin

Thank you. Any reason to think Judge Benitez would be in favor of the state’s request?

not holding my breath for it to happen, but wouldn't it be a thumb in the eye of the state if Benitez gives the state their 'pause' in this one so the others can finish up, but pairs it with an injunction against enforcing any of the AW provisions in the meantime

[bigstick61]

Originally Posted by GPMG Gunner

Unknown, but the lawsuit attacks the AWCA as a whole, so Category 1, 2, and 3 weapons could be struck - depending entirely on how far Judge Benitez goes with his ruling, assuming it’s favorable. Features have to do with category 3, and a lot of language in the lawsuit addresses this.

If Judge Benitez rules the entire AWCA unconstitutional, Katie bar the door.

If category 1 weapons are struck, you could go buy a PSG-1. If Category 2 weapons are struck, yes you could go buy that SR-10 or SR-15 (or even a RIS, because that railed fore end part is on that list too)

Looking at the list of PC sections that it wants thrown out, the portions that include the Roberti-Roos and AR/AK Series bans do not appear to be listed.

Earlier I asked if this was an oversight or deliberate, but got no answer. Maybe I'm just missing something. Not sure why you'd leave those out but go after everything else.

[69ELKY]

Originally Posted by bigstick61

Looking at the list of PC sections that it wants thrown out, the portions that include the Roberti-Roos and AR/AK Series bans do not appear to be listed.

Earlier I asked if this was an oversight or deliberate, but got no answer. Maybe I'm just missing something. Not sure why you'd leave those out but go after everything else.

I would love to have a detachable mag on my SKS Para.

[Echidin]

Originally Posted by local_nobody

not holding my breath for it to happen, but wouldn't it be a thumb in the eye of the state if Benitez gives the state their 'pause' in this one so the others can finish up, but pairs it with an injunction against enforcing any of the AW provisions in the meantime

That would be one way of giving the finger to the state for trying to rush and circumvent Benitez in Duncan.

[AdvJunkie]

Is there any chance the Rupp and Miller teams are talking?..... combining their strategy(s) so that Miller could make an amended complaint that includes Rupps strong points...... perhaps after doing so the Rupp team could withdraw their lawsuit because Miller has the ability to still amend and make their case even more powerful.

Is that a possibility?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Uncivil Engineer]

Originally Posted by local_nobody

not holding my breath for it to happen, but wouldn't it be a thumb in the eye of the state if Benitez gives the state their 'pause' in this one so the others can finish up, but pairs it with an injunction against enforcing any of the AW provisions in the meantime

What would that injunction mean on the ground? Bullet buttons are still enough to be legal?

[sfpcservice]

Freedom week was enough time to get mags into the state, but let's not forget it will be 10 days before you can take delivery of your gun if the AWB gets tossed. You know the state will appeal faster than freedom week also...

[Drew Eckhardt]

Originally Posted by sfpcservice

Freedom week was enough time to get mags into the state, but let's not forget it will be 10 days before you can take delivery of your gun if the AWB gets tossed. You know the state will appeal faster than freedom week also...

Who doesn't have featureless rifles which could be converted to free state form, or spare lowers that have yet to be assembled?

[wchutt]

Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt

Who doesn't have featureless rifles which could be converted to free state form, or spare lowers that have yet to be assembled?

Probably one or two people out there have one, the other, or both, and the parts in hand to convert/build... just guessing.

[morrcarr67]

Originally Posted by wchutt

Probably one or two people out there have one, the other, or both, and the parts in hand to convert/build... just guessing.

Or, if they don't they still have plenty of time to get them.

Sent from my Nokia 7.1 using Tapatalk

[Brbecker]

I feel like like there is a great chance this will go in our way. Anyone disagree ?

[mend0k]

So ar pistols will be legal to purchase if this goes through? Even with the handgun roster still in tact?

[tenemae]

Originally Posted by mend0k

So ar pistols will be legal to purchase if this goes through? Even with the handgun roster still in tact?

Are there any AR pistols on the roster? That will answer your question

[Uncivil Engineer]

Originally Posted by tenemae

Are there any AR pistols on the roster? That will answer your question

Yes. Franklin armory CA7 is on roster and for sale now.

[Sputnik]

Originally Posted by Uncivil Engineer

Yes. Franklin armory CA7 is on roster and for sale now.

I think he meant semi-auto ar pistols. CA7 is "bolt action" so in the same group as revolvers, etc. Micro stamping, lci, do not apply.

[ironpegasus]

Originally Posted by Betfair39

i know this is out of topic but why there is no litigation about NFA items (Silencers SBR AR Pistols) in California right now?

Because the rest of us in free states don't want the NFA processing time to jump from a little over a year to a three year wait overnight?

Seriously though, I wish they'd streamline that process (15 minutes to process is more than enough - it's barely longer than a 4473 and it's the same background check as a NICS check once your paperwork is verified) and that we'd get a good ruling from the USSC on scrutiny so we can start hitting various aspects of the NFA. Starting with suppressors as over-the-counter items and lifting the '86 machine gun ban to get some rational pricing on MGs.

[RoyBatty]

Taperxz

There is no law that forces a LEO that purchased and registered an AW for duty that forces that LEO to turn it in upon separation from the agency.....When Jerry Brown was AG he wrote an opinion but it isn’t law

[TruOil]

Originally Posted by RoyBatty

Taperxz

There is no law that forces a LEO that purchased and registered an AW for duty that forces that LEO to turn it in upon separation from the agency.....When Jerry Brown was AG he wrote an opinion but it isn’t law

True, there is no statute saying that retired leos may not keep AWS, but there is no statute that allows them to either. In the absence of any statute, opinions of the AG are persuasive. I haven't read the decision in so long I don't recall exactly what his theory was, but I would guess it is because the only exemption in the penal code is for current, not former, leos, and therefore former leos are subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

[BBot12]

So what’s the current state of this court hearing?

I don’t think Benitez delayed the case per Becerra’s motion, did he?