Lessons for Santa Clara Co CGNers: How SDCGO got San Diego Co to liberally issue CCWs

[Paladin]

I only added some paragraph breaks, bolding and minor edits to make for easier reading.

Originally Posted by SD County Gun Owners PAC

The question of why Gore has changed has come up.

Here is the story. San Diego County Gun Owners SDCGO launched in late 2015. From the start we focused on the Sheriff’s CCW policies and getting him to change them or elect someone who will.

In no particular order SDCGO:
- Spoke to Gore’s supporters, donors, friends, colleagues, and staff about what was wrong with his CCW policies.
- Interviewed on TV news, radio, and in print regarding Gore’s CCW policies
- We met with organizations that had endorsed him in the past and got them to withhold their endorsement due to his CCW policies
- Sent people to Gore’s fundraisers and speaking events to publicly criticize his CCW policies
- Met with Gore to complain about his polices
- Met with his opponent and helped him (a lot) craft his proposed CCW policy
- Raised money for his opponent and eventually endorsed his opponent
- Authored a resolution (letter from the city) for Santee stating that they, as a city, disagree with his CCW policy and want him to change it
- Got other elected officials on the federal and local level to meet with Gore and ask him to change his CCW polices. Some of this was made public and published in newspapers.
- Got the undersheriff in Orange County to talk to Gore about how successful their CCW program has been

This is most of what we did and in the end it worked. After Santee passed their resolution he called SDCGO and we spent last summer meeting with Gore’s staff. We asked for good cause to be “self defense” or “personal protection”. We did not get that. But what we got is better than it has been in decades.

Just about any good cause is approved, but the tricky part is you have to have proof. Gore was audited by the state and he doesn’t want a bad audit. So there has to be some kind of proof or backup showing your good cause is real.

Examples:
Good cause – "I’m a contractor and carry expensive tools to the job site."
Proof – contractor’s license

Good cause – "I hike and camp often in San Diego’s back country."
Proof – pictures of you camping and a log book showing specifically where you go, how long, and what you bring.

I met with the undersheriff two weeks ago and they are full steam ahead on making the process better and continuing to issue. Last September there were around 1,100 CCWs issued in San Diego (not including judges and law enforcement). As of tonight there are 1682 (according to the counter added to the sheriff’s CCW webpage). Over 500 additional permits issued in just under a year. About a dozen have been turned down to background check issues (like finding a domestic violence conviction or recent DUI) and around 6 have been turned down due to their good cause statement. Mostly it was because they did not follow our instructions or refused to produce proof. I think they should have been granted a CCW, but I also think they would have been issued a permit had they followed our instructions.

They have hired more staff and I am trying to convince them to get the same software Orange County uses to run their program.

SDCGO continues to fight back bureaucracy that has tried to creep into the system and we’ve been successful. It is NOT perfect…but we are continuing to make it better and we can hardly believe how much it has changed for the better.

Basically, most people in San Diego are about 16 sentences away from a CCW. It is real. It is happening. If you haven’t applied yet, you are missing out. There is a backlog and yes, that sucks. Call right now and make your appointment. Then take a few months while you wait for your first appointment to complete the application, write your good cause statement, get proof of your good cause, and take a few training classes on CA carry laws/lethal force laws.

I have given over 30 seminars (most were free) on how to get your CCW and what to write for your good cause. SDCGO has produced a video explaining how to apply and what to write for your good cause. We have produced a Good Cause Worksheet that walks you through each sentence. SDCGO has posted over 25 good cause statements that we know have been approved. All can be found on www.SDCGO.org/CCW

-Michael Schwartz
SDCGO, Executive Director

"Go and do likewise."

[Paladin]

https://sandiegocountygunowners.com/ccw/

[Paladin]

My, what a flood of people from NorCal's most populous county (1.8M), rushing to imitate what San Diego folk did to liberalize CCW issuance in their county....

[MJB]

First I've heard of it...... give it time

And thx for the heads up

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by MJB

First I've heard of it...... give it time

And thx for the heads up

Another week of ...

IOW, another week wasted. Nov 6th is closing in on us fast. Knock off a couple of weeks because of mail in ballots/early voting and you'll see you folk in Santa Clara County have squandered a rare opportunity to force change/liberalization in CCW issuance. You have no one to blame but yourselves....

From a different thread:

Originally Posted by Paladin

Yes, but you should also reach out to her campaign as well.

If you look at Sheriff Smith's campaign's FB page, you'll see her appealing to lots of special interest groups. Where's the pro-2nd A groups? Where's the NRA Members Councils? the GS2AC? Are they not even on speaking terms with her?

When Sheriff Gore of San Diego found himself in a tight race against a gay Dem opponent who was pro-CCW, Gore liberalized his own CCW policy. That's how we want things: where both sides are pro-CCW and you can't lose no matter who wins.

Gore tripled the number of CCWs in a year, ended up winning reelection in June, and has kept issuing more and more CCWs every month! He's hired more staff for his CCW unit and is consulting with OCSO on how they process CCWs to speed up things even more.

Gore's even put a counter up on his CCW Info page that is updated at the end of each month to show the current number of 2-year CCWs:
https://www.sdsheriff.net/licensing/ccw.html

An easy place to start is by contacting Smith's campaign's FB page and telling her you want her to liberalize CCW issuance by October 15th and will vote for and support Hirokawa if she does not. But with no organization and so few posters in this Santa Clara Co CCW Info thread -- you should have at least several hundred contact her, a few thousand would be better -- you probably will just show her how weak you are.... That's your fault for preferring to spending time posting complaints than spending time organizing, planning, and doing.

But do what you can now and if things don't change, with whoever wins in Nov, just consider this to be laying the groundwork for the 2022 sheriff's election.

Here's Smith's campaign's FB page:
https://www.facebook.com/lauriesmithreelection/

[Paladin]

Another week of ...

[bool1tholz]

Santa Clara, San Mateo and San Francisco counties are ground zero for the Trump Derangement Syndrome crisis. Appeals to logic and safety that resonated in San Diego fall short in the SF peninsula region.
Santa Clara is a lost cause.
Efforts are better directed towards building a battering ram at the state or federal level to force consistency of CCW issuance across California counties rather than working at the local level in Santa Clara county.

Santa Clara County is
45.6% Democrat
21.7% Republican

San Diego County is
35.3% Democrat
33.9% Republican

California locations by voter registration - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cali...r_registration

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by bool1tholz

Santa Clara, San Mateo and San Francisco counties are ground zero for the Trump Derangement Syndrome crisis. Appeals to logic and safety that resonated in San Diego fall short in the SF peninsula region.

Not sure what you're talking about. If anything, you're arguing in my favor. The Nov 6th election is about electing Dem Hirokawa to replace Repub Smith as sheriff.

If Smith is in fear of losing her position ($$$), she may, like Gore in San Diego, become more open to issuing CCWs to shore up support from the right. "Politicians see the light when they feel the heat." But don't trust her unless she posts it right on the SO's website and actually starts issuing.

This is the first time Smith has had to have a runoff election in her 20 years as sheriff. Don't waste this opportunity!

Originally Posted by bool1tholz

Santa Clara is a lost cause.

The person who says something can't be done and doesn't try is guaranteed it won't be done. The person who says it can be done and tries is not guaranteed it gets done. Pessimism is the "safe" bet, and from that, apathy grows. Nothing gets done, because nothing is even tried. And, of course, nothing changes....

No one who is a success started off by claiming, "It can't be done." They all thought it could be and eventually it was.

Originally Posted by bool1tholz

Efforts are better directed towards building a battering ram at the state or federal level to force consistency of CCW issuance across California counties rather than working at the local level in Santa Clara county.

So, what are you doing along those lines?

Originally Posted by bool1tholz

Santa Clara County is
45.6% Democrat
21.7% Republican

San Diego County is
35.3% Democrat
33.9% Republican

California locations by voter registration - Wikipedia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cali...r_registration

Again: on the surface and to the masses, this is about replacing Republican Laurie Smith with Democrat Hirokawa. In private, with the candidates and their campaigns, this is about electing the person who will issue the most CCWs.

Look once again at the CA CCW GC map. Sonoma and Yolo will be getting new sheriffs in January. I expect Sonoma to go to yellow, maybe even light green. I expect Yolo to go to stay light red, maybe even go to yellow. Of the remaining SFBA counties, IMO, the best bets for local political pressure are, in order of likelihood to win: Santa Clara, CoCo and SM. Of those, Santa Clara is the only one having a runoff election. Don't waste this opportunity. Sacto won't bail us out. The state courts won't. National Reciprocity, even if it does pass, is unlikely to allow you to CCW in CA. Even the federal courts, that we've been waiting upon for over a DECADE since Heller, haven't helped us (and may not if they stop Trump's picks). Don't be lazy -- there is NO HELP on its way. Self-help is the order of the day.

[bool1tholz]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Not sure what you're talking about. If anything, you're arguing in my favor. The Nov 6th election is about electing Dem Hirokawa to replace Repub Smith as sheriff.

If Smith is in fear of losing her position ($$$), she may, like Gore in San Diego, become more open to issuing CCWs to shore up support from the right. "Politicians see the light when they feel the heat." But don't trust her unless she posts it right on the SO's website and actually starts issuing.

This is the first time Smith has had to have a runoff election in her 20 years as sheriff. Don't waste this opportunity!

Agreed that his is the best chance in a long time to get Smith out of there. Almost anyone should be for any candidate other than Laurie Smith!! Too many things wrong with Laurie Smith from ethical violations, issues with running of the county jail, etc... So people should vote for the other guy Hirokawa. However Hirokawa is not "pro CCW".

The email statement Hirokawa responded to another calgunner when trying to pin him down on his CCW issue and he gave an evasive answer, defering to at the time the pending Peruta Ninth Circuit en banc appeal.
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1350984
But Peruta was ruled against in the en banc review leaving so you still need to demonstrate what Hirokawa deems "just cause", whatever that is.
Thus on CCW, Santa Clara voter choices in the runoff are never CCW issuance Smith and perhaps perhaps not impossible CCW issuance Hirokawa.

The statistics regarding county Republican vs Democrat registered voter percentages was data indicating that the electorate in San Diego is likely closer to neutral on the CCW issue and thus easier for a candidate to campaign as pro-CCW. The electorate in Santa Clara there are more than two Democrats for every Republican so a pro-CCW platform wont help a Sheriff get elected and stay in office in Santa Clara.

Litigation in the courts are the most promising avenue for positive change on CCW issuance statewide and in places such as Santa Clara County, but this also means that a pro 2nd amendment SCOTUS would be the best hope for an environment friendly to successful new litigation. Continued support of organizations that will be advocating and funding that litigation is what every firearm owner should be participating in (NRA/CPRA). In other counties with pro-CCW Sheriff candidates local ballot box change may be effective. But do vote in Hirokawa as it almost not possible for him to be worse than Laurie Smith.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by bool1tholz

Thus on CCW, Santa Clara voter choices in the runoff are never CCW issuance Smith and perhaps perhaps not impossible CCW issuance Hirokawa.

Yeah, if nothing else, he'll take SCSO to light red, from dark red. Too many CGNers do NOT see that as significant progress, when it is. Getting to yellow is getting 2/3rds the way to light green!

The statistics regarding county Republican vs Democrat registered voter percentages was data indicating that the electorate in San Diego is likely closer to neutral on the CCW issue and thus easier for a candidate to campaign as pro-CCW. The electorate in Santa Clara there are more than two Democrats for every Republican so a pro-CCW platform wont help a Sheriff get elected and stay in office in Santa Clara.

Support Hirokawa and let him know you're pro-CCW. Do NOT expect him to "come out" and say he is too. Push him as a needed change, get some improvement on CCWs as a side benefit.

Litigation in the courts are the most promising avenue for positive change on CCW issuance statewide and in places such as Santa Clara County, but this also means that a pro 2nd amendment SCOTUS would be the best hope for an environment friendly to successful new litigation. Continued support of organizations that will be advocating and funding that litigation is what every firearm owner should be participating in (NRA/CPRA).

Like I said: it's been 10 years after Heller and still no Right to Bear Arms. If Kavanaugh gets shot down, if Dems take the Senate and House, the federal courts may NEVER help Santa Clara residents.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by MJB

First I've heard of it...... give it time

And thx for the heads up

Less than a month until the Nov 6th election. Even less time given early voting/mail-in ballots....

Where are all the Santa Clara 2nd A activists, all the CGNers who want CCWs???

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Paladin

So, now that you all have had time to lick your wounds, are you going to start organizing for influencing who wins as sheriff in 2022???

Well?

[Paladin]

Another month down. The new sheriffs have taken office. Sonoma Co has switched from light red to light green on the CA CCW GC map. Riverside Co has switched from light green to dark green (SD = GC).

What you Santa Clara Co CGNers going to do to improve CCW issuance in their county? IMO, best to read thru my CoCoCo advice first to understand that CA CCWs have NOTHING to do with the 2nd A RBA. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1482924

Just getting Smith to issue consistently with her restrictive policy will take Santa Clara Co from a few dozen CCWers to a few hundred. If she liberalizes her policy to "light red" that could go to a few thousand. If she takes it yellow, that will work up to several thousand.

But nothing will change unless you CGNers put effort into making it change.

[scootle]

Hmmm... just ran into this thread. Interesting info. Are there any SCC based groups taking point on looking at making this happen?

[SDBlaster]

Proud SDCGO member here! They made and are making real positive changes to our gun rights here in SD and I hope you would support them

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by Paladin

Another month down. ...

But nothing will change unless you CGNers put effort into making it change.

Another month down....

[Paladin]

Wow. Almost another month down and Santa Clara people have been AWOL....

Whatever. Maybe some CGNer living in that county will have some you-know-whats and start acting like it.

For example, they should get in touch with the SO's CCW unit and share with them the info in this article (1/3rd of realtors have been in situations during showings that put them in fear and 1 out of 20 had been attacked at work), to encourage them to liberalize issuance to real estate agents. THEN, figure out how to get in touch with RE agents/RE brokers and share with them basic info on applying for a CA CCW through the SO.

https://katu.com/news/nation-world/r...ves-for-safety

Or you could spend your Saturday mornings playing video games....

[Paladin]

Another month down....

[Paladin]

Almost another month down....



For those who think "It can't be done", look closely at the 2019 CA CCW GC map I posted above and compare it to what we faced 10 years ago, in 2009....

We're at the end of the middle game and have begun the endgame.

[Paladin]

FYI from another thread in another forum. (emphasis added)

Originally Posted by Jess B. Guy

Full disclosure...I've known Sheriff Smith for over 35 years. I had a sit down with her about three weeks ago on an unrelated non-firearms matter. We did get around to talking about issuance of CCW's. She is issuing them - albeit slowly. I know she had a recent change in administrative personnel handling the CCW applications. She is not ignoring them.

I've read a great many negative things on this forum about her. I have no opinion other than to state I've always found her to be up front to me. Others certainly differ - OK.

If you live in Santa Clara County go ahead and apply. If you applied over a year ago - do it again. They are looking at updated applications.

[the Scholar]

Very interesting to hear.

But is it a trap? My concern would be that I apply and am turned down because of their arbitrary view on what a "good cause" is. From my understanding, being turned once means much harder to get a permit in the future.

[Paladin]

Originally Posted by the Scholar

Very interesting to hear.

But is it a trap? My concern would be that I apply and am turned down because of their arbitrary view on what a "good cause" is. From my understanding, being turned once means much harder to get a permit in the future.

That depends upon why you were denied. If it was for insufficient Good Cause, that will NOT affect your future chances with either that Issuing Agency or another. Why? They only care about what you currently claim as GC and how that stacks up against their current GC standard.

If you were denied for lack of Good Moral Character or for some other reason, like lying about something on your previous application, that WILL be an issue that they'll look closely into during your new application. Even then, it may not be dispositive. Let's say you were denied a CCW 5 years ago because 5 years before that you got a DUI. If it's now 10 years after the DUI without any similar incident they may issue you a CCW.