**Child Autism/ADHD & Shooting**

[darkwater]

Phil, my experience has been similar to yours. My son lives by rules, doesn't understand why others don't follow them, and he'll often hide his aunt's cigarettes from her when she's visiting. My son has twice been deemed to not need an IEP for his education. He is very social and well-liked in school.

You bring up a good point about Adam Lanza. A detailed study by the Office of the Child Advocate had this to say in conclusion:

"Authors conclude that there was not one thing that was necessarily the tipping point driving AL to commit the Sandy Hook shooting. Rather there was a cascade of events, many self-imposed, that included: loss of school; absence of work; disruption of the relationship with his one friend; virtually no personal contact with family; virtually total and increasing isolation; fear of losing his home and of a change in his relationship with Mrs. Lanza, his only caretaker and connection; worsening OCD, depression and anxiety; profound and possibly worsening anorexia; and an increasing obsession with mass murder occurring in the total absence of any engagement with the outside world. AL increasingly lived in an alternate universe in which ruminations about mass shootings were his central preoccupation.

The attack on Sandy Hook Elementary appears to have been a purposefully thought-out and planned attack—AL did not just “snap.”
He visited the school’s website on numerous occasions. He had looked at the student handbook and viewed security procedures at the school."

http://www.ct.gov/oca/lib/oca/sandyhook11212014.pdf

There were plenty of warning signs that were not addressed, if you take the time to look at the details of his story.

[Win231]

None of the psychobabble from mental health "Experts" (who get it wrong more often than they get it right) can cancel the unpredictable nature of mental illness.

[sixoclockhold]

114 pages of fiction.

[Alan Block]

My son has Aspergers. I have taken him shooting since he was 10. He is now 25, a professional engineer and married. He has lost jobs but never a day of work. All the things I feared and watched for in his behaviour have not come to pass so I gave him my Sharps rifle.

[ef9boy88]

Wait so we can let ASD kids run our lives, but giving one a gun under the supervision of a parent is bad? By that logic giving a child ANY CHILD a gun at all is just a terrible idea, and they should fear and never lay a finger on them until they are at least 18 years old if not 25.

[jeremiah12]

Originally Posted by CAL.BAR

OP - this is just NOT a good idea. FOR THE MOST PART - girls are NOT into guns (in general). Beyond that - kids on the spectrum tend to be very sensitive to loud noise and disruption. (not really a good thing for shooting) Lastly, there once was a mother who's son was "on the spectrum" who thought that she would help him share her love of firearms and perhaps help her son through his autism issues. His name was Adam Lanza. Google the name if you have to.

If you read the in-depth reports on Adam Lanza, he had many other issues. He was diagnosed as obsessive/compulsive. His mother took him of of meds after just 4 days and then never let him be evaluated by another psychiatrist again.

Dad was sure he was exhibiting signs of schizophrenia and psychosis and wanted him to be evaluated for that and mom refused. He exhibited violent behaviors and was beating on mom yet she refused to report it or see it as a sign that her son should not have access to guns.

Adam stayed locked in his room the majority of the day and his diary contained writings about shooting people that had wronged him, including his mother. Mom had confided to a couple of friends that she had read the diary and the passages but she was sure her son would not do any such thing.

I am a teacher and I have autistic students. The overwhelming majority would never harm anyone or anything. In fact, they are more likely to be harmed by others. The few that are violent or have violent tendencies have other issues and are diagnosed with those issues. The students with autism that are low functioning would never make it to the mainstream class and would never pick up a gun because they are lost in their own private world.

BTW, there are many famous people who have high functioning autism and excel in life. Bill Gates is the most famous that I am aware of.

[CandG]

Just food for thought - saying that all of the 100's of thousands of kids on the spectrum are incapable of safe firearm use because of the action of one schizophrenic kid who was also on the spectrum, is like saying that all conservatives are incapable of safe fertilizer use because one of them blew up a building.

A couple people on this thread are showing that their ignorance knows no bounds, and have been introduced to my ignore list so as to prevent me from forgetting who they are and accidentally reading one of their opinions in the future.

[peter95]

The biggest thing for your child is how will they cope with the bang?

I used to tutor autistic children years ago and some wouldn't handle it good.

If your daughter is ok with that, I would take her out shooting first get her comfortable before trying to get her enrolled in a class.

[CandG]

Originally Posted by peter95

The biggest thing for your child is how will they cope with the bang?

I used to tutor autistic children years ago and some wouldn't handle it good.

If your daughter is ok with that, I would take her out shooting first get her comfortable before trying to get her enrolled in a class.

Good advice. Double up the ear-pro (plugs & muffs) if you can. Ideally start her with 22lr so that it's not overwhelming, ideally at a range by yourselves (BLM land or such).

Kids on the spectrum do indeed often have sensitive ears, plus the loud noises can cause anxiety. Best to work her way up to the louder guns gradually, I think.

[WaltKowalski]

Originally Posted by Win231

Personally, I wouldn't introduce firearms to anyone with Autism (or any mental disorder), especially since, as you say, she's not interested. I don't think it's worth the risk. There are other more-suitable hobbies that don't involve deadly weapons. I've witnessed scary behavior with firearms by individuals with mild mental issues. Perhaps you could discuss this with her doctors?

You might consider the fact that Adam Lanza had Autism. Of course, I'm not saying your daughter would commit mass murder, but much is not known about Autism. Adam's mother saw nothing wrong with allowing him to have guns. As I said, there are safer, more-appropriate hobbies; why does it have to be shooting?

Autism is a different type of mental disorder from say, schizophrenia, psychosis, dementia, etc. etc. Autism is more of a developmental handicap. That being said, Adam's mother used bad judgement when allowing her son to have guns. a fully grown 20 year old with autism will have the mental capacity and decision making of probably a 6 year old. Would you give a 6 year old a gun without supervision? She was nuts!

If anything, finding an interest for someone with Autism is a great thing and can help them develop because as long as they are interested in something, they will keep developing.

[CandG]

Originally Posted by WaltKowalski

a fully grown 20 year old with autism will have the mental capacity and decision making of probably a 6 year old.

Wow, that didn't at all sound like a fact you just completely made up based on zero knowledge of the subject

Most 6 year olds I've known who are on the spectrum have better mental capacity and decision-making skills than most 20 year olds. And I do have a lot of knowledge on the subject.

Lanza's dad, and many psychologists, by the way, are fairly certain Adam had undiagnosed schizophrenia. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...chotic-episode

One thing is clear, he had MANY issues going on, and yes, his mother's was insane for letting him access guns. Not because of an Asperger diagnosis, but rather because he was a psychotic antisocial with a mass-shooting obsession. Who in the world would allow someone like that to access guns and not expect him to do what he did?

[DVSmith]

I have spent a lot of time with scouts at all levels including Cub Scouts which are your daughter's age. BSA Shooting Sports designates only BB guns for Cub Scouts to introduce them to the concepts of safe firearms handling and following instructions in a safe and controlled environment. I might suggest the same here.

As you can imagine, I have worked with scouts that have a broad range of difficulties. Sometimes the parents bring this to our attention, other times we "learn" through experience with the youth.

Our shooting activities include extensive supervision and when we have youth with special needs, we make sure we pair them with the appropriately trained supervision with experience working with that youth's specific issues whenever possible. ADHD and Autism are pretty common in the scouting program, so we have no shortage of experience in those areas.

Unfortunately, Cub Scouts is a male only program, so that doesn't help your daughter, but my point in all of this is that the appropriate activities with proper supervision and training are perfectly safe.

Most of all, if she isn't having fun, you are doing it wrong!

[WaltKowalski]

Originally Posted by cockedandglocked

Wow, that didn't at all sound like a fact you just completely made up based on zero knowledge of the subject

Most 6 year olds I've known who are on the spectrum have better mental capacity and decision-making skills than most 20 year olds. And I do have a lot of knowledge on the subject.

Lanza's dad, and many psychologists, by the way, are fairly certain Adam had undiagnosed schizophrenia. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...chotic-episode

One thing is clear, he had MANY issues going on, and yes, his mother's was insane for letting him access guns. Not because of an Asperger diagnosis, but rather because he was a psychotic antisocial with a mass-shooting obsession. Who in the world would allow someone like that to access guns and not expect him to do what he did?

Don't be so condescending. I have a family member with mosaics. This came from the therapists mouth.

Didn't know about the undiagnosed schizo in lanzas case.

But my main point was in my opinion its ok to give someone with autism a gun to shoot so long as it's in a controlled environment, under close adult supervision. And when not in said controlled environment keep it locked up just as you would around a child.

[CandG]

Originally Posted by WaltKowalski

Don't be so condescending. I have a family member with mosaics. This came from the therapists mouth.

Didn't know about the undiagnosed schizo in lanzas case.

But my main point was in my opinion its ok to give someone with autism a gun to shoot so long as it's in a controlled environment, under close adult supervision. And when not in said controlled environment keep it locked up just as you would around a child.

I agree with your final paragraph with reagard to kids with AS. But your comments about treating all adults with AS as if they are children is extremely condescending and unbelievably ignorant. You need to keep something in mind, it's called Autism "Spectrum" for a reason - no two people with it are the same, and there is an extremely wide range of symptoms. Most are high-functioning, and many go their whole lives without even being diagnosed because there is no reason to even test for it. Some are low-functioning, and have extremely limited abilities. This is clearly not what the OP's daughter is. And then there's everything in between, and it's a vast range. It's up to the parent to decide if their child is ready to be introduced to firearms - like you said, it's exactly like with non-AS children. Upon adulthood, there is no reason most people with AS aren't perfectly capable of being responsible firearm users, even unattended, the same as any other adult without AS is presumed to be trustworthy with firearms unless they've demonstrated otherwise. Ms. Lanza made an extremely poor judgement call - she kept firearms readily accessible around her son who clearly had some major issues. Not only was he not even close to high-functioning (he kept himself locked in his room and refused to speak to people), but he had schizophrenic symptoms as I pointed out above, and sick obsessions with mass shootings. He should never have been given access to guns. I think we all agree with that. But to assume that everyone who is diagnosed with AS has the mental capacity of a 6 year old is completely ignorant, and I'm not condescending for calling you out on that. Should parents with kids who have ASD be cautious introducing their kids to firearms? Of course. But that's no different than with any other kid, so it's not even worth discussion. Unless you want to discuss the merits of caution with introducing kids in general around firearms, in which case that's fine, but pick a different thread to do it in then.

[neomentat]

Before a child is introduced to firearms, maybe parents should consider some formal training in a school of martial arts. It will train them in self discipline, mental focus, self esteem and everything that firearm training will not do. It will also instill confidence in their own self defense capacities hand to hand, so when they are bullied or picked on at school, their first thought does not default to the gun.

Teaching a child basic firearm safety and handling is a good idea. Getting a child to fascinate about firearms is a bad idea, doing that to a mentally disabled child is socially irresponsible and if bad things happen it's also a criminal liability as well a burden on your conscious.

Let a child be a child, let's not force our gun nuts fascination with firearms on their innocence!

[Win231]

Originally Posted by WaltKowalski

Don't be so condescending. I have a family member with mosaics. This came from the therapists mouth.

Didn't know about the undiagnosed schizo in lanzas case.

But my main point was in my opinion its ok to give someone with autism a gun to shoot so long as it's in a controlled environment, under close adult supervision. And when not in said controlled environment keep it locked up just as you would around a child.

You'd be surprised to learn how many gun owners don't have the common sense to keep guns locked up around children.

[Mark75H]

Originally Posted by WaltKowalski

a fully grown 20 year old with autism will have the mental capacity and decision making of probably a 6 year old.

My 20 year old autisitic daughter has the decision making of a 24-25 year old. Her clarity of thought and life direction are amazing ... but she's more likely to text or email her thoughts than to verbalize. She talks to me and her fiancé, but almost no one else. On the autism scale, but not emotionally "delayed" as the current PC term replacing "retarded".

[audiophil2]

Originally Posted by Win231

You'd be surprised to learn how many gun owners don't have the common sense to keep guns locked up around children.

My 11 year old is around guns daily. He installed bullet buttons on them. I trust him with guns than most adults. Especially since he has shot guns most adults and 99% of californians don't have access to.