A Message From CalGuns Staff

[RANGER295]

It has long been the policy here on CGN not to allow any advocating of illegal activity and to remove any admission of a crime. In light of recent events there has been an onslaught of posts doing just that. The staff has been discussing how to handle these posts and have left most of them alone. We understand the anguish and hurt that most of you are feeling right now and we are having the same feelings and struggling with the same decisions that each of you are having to face. We may have reached a crossroads where it is time to have some of these discussions even in the open. There may come a time where the site leadership decides not to allow the discussion of illegal activity but for the time being please consider the following:

Calguns.net is monitored by law enforcement including the California DOJ, local agencies, and the Feds. We know this without a doubt and have even been subpoenaed for records before in criminal investigations.

Everything you post on CGN is public and visible to anyone that visits the site.

Professing intent to break the law could potentially be used as PC for searches later on and subject yourself to attention/investigation by law enforcement.

If you decide to make posts advocating illegal activity or expressing the intent to commit crimes, know that you do so at your own risk. CGN will respond to subpoena as we always have by deferring to our legal counsel's opinion on whether we have to comply or not; however we will not deliberately try to hide illegal activity. Further more, threats, even vague or hinted at, of violence have never and will never be acceptable. Any such conduct will be dealt with as deemed appropriate by CGN staff.

We all have important decisions to make in the next few months. Make sure that you make them from an informed and well thought out position. Also remember these decisions can potentially have a significant impact on others in your lives'. Make sure you include those people in your decision.

[dchang0]

Thanks for letting people vent.

I would hope and humbly ask that IF the gov't comes along and subpoenas you to investigate particular Calguns users, you please consider announcing such events publicly, as Reason Magazine did when the feds tried to uncover a few commenters joking about feeding a federal judge into a wood chipper, Fargo-style AND tried to gag Reason Magazine about it:

https://popehat.com/2015/06/08/depar...-at-reason-com

Reason Mag. handled it really well. They cooperated with the feds as much as they had to and then blew the story up into national outrage over the quashing of free speech:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ason-magazine/

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...on-free-speech

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed...628-story.html

http://iwf.org/blog/2797386/First-Am...39;-Identities

The gag order was found to be exceptionally flimsy:

https://popehat.com/2015/07/09/what-...ifully-little/


As they say, "sunlight is the best disinfectant."

Reason Mag. took a big gamble--they could've quietly gone along with the feds, which would have led to the feds coming back again and again for more info on users shooting the breeze in their comments section, but by blowing the whole thing wide open and garnering national support from liberals and conservatives alike, they sent a clear message to the feds that they'll have to be very careful and thorough the next time they come after a commenter.

It seems like more and more of our justice system is becoming secret to the people--secret FISA courts, secret terrorist watchlists, secret gun owner databases, etc. We're losing control of our gov't bit by bit.

[wpod]

Thank you

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

[ez2b]

Good job staff

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

[Calico1404]

Excellent update

[Kokopelli]

Thank you, moderators at CALGUNS.

People get upset and sometimes speak out of anger and frustrations. Better to vent than actually commit a crime. I've seen members call out someone going overboard, which makes CALGUNS a very classy place that often self-moderates.

But we all know that sometimes a thread needs to be locked. We appreciate the moderators and Admin of Calguns and trust your judgement. Thank you for all you do!

[00Medic]

As dchang0 said, Thank You. For some, this is the only place were we can vent with like-minded people.

Thank you for understanding CGN staff.

[CaliforniaLiberal]

I know you won't forget to Sticky this.

[AEtrane]

It was mentioned in another thread by another user, but bears repeating here:

Make the 2A forum accessible only by members who have a password.

For years, it has never made sense that anybody in the public domain can see the 2A forums but the OT forums are private.

Also, it's time everyone educate themselves on CalECPA (sb178) and what it means for their privacy.

Surprisingly, it's something our legislators did that can actually protect our privacy.

[CWDraco]

probably be a good idea to mass PM this to all members.

[ElDub1950]

Glad to see this. Some folks needed this info for their own good. I empathize with everyone's frustration and it's encouraging to see ideas. I'd just hate to see any of these statements used against someone down the road. I think it's great that you're letting most of these discussions spin for awhile and hopefully this sticky will help many of us.

[readinglist]

Originally Posted by AEtrane

It was mentioned in another thread by another user, but bears repeating here:

Make the 2A forum accessible only by members who have a password.

For years, it has never made sense that anybody in the public domain can see the 2A forums but the OT forums are private.

Also, it's time everyone educate themselves on CalECPA (sb178) and what it means for their privacy.

Surprisingly, it's something our legislators did that can actually protect our privacy.

Cool, I had never heard of this. Here's more info:
https://www.eff.org/cases/california...cy-act-calecpa

[LBDamned]

Big brother is watching - but they're only looking for terrorists

Thank you CGN staff. If CA hasnt become a complete Police State yet, then LE and Gvnmnt won't have any interest in the conversations being made here.

On the other hand - we know where CA is heading... So never expect American Freedoms here.

[mt4design]

Thank you to CalGuns staff for your tireless efforts on our behalf.

This is a welcome policy and an excellent warning.

However, what we're seeing in recent trends by TPTB is ex post facto making what was legal yesterday illegal tomorrow and the First Amendment is as under assault as the Second.

So, while I applaud the warning and the gesture, there really is nothing to stop an overreaching despotic regime from using what ever it deems "inappropriate" in order to further its agenda.

[Red-Osier]

Thank's for the reminder.

[XDJYo]

Thank you.

This should be stickied in all sub-forums so all will take note or as another poster above mentioned, PM to all members as an urgent message.

[SWalt]

Bump

[LBDamned]

Originally Posted by SWalt

Bump

It's a sticky - you don't need to bump it, it stays at the top.

[zuchaka]

Thanks guys.......risk to benefit ? .....don't talk about what you are going to do

[jarhead714]

So when's the sticky for the Official Calguns Going Dark/ "Well, bye then." thread going to hit the screen? That's the one I'm waiting for. A nice opportunity to say goodbye is what would be nice right about now.

[Midtown Gunner]

Originally Posted by LBDamned

Big brother is watching - but they're only looking for terrorists.

Which is every legal owner in California.

[Subotai]

Excellent advice. Thanks for letting us vent. I encourage anyone who remains on Calguns to follow the letter of the law.

[choprzrul]

Originally Posted by RANGER295

I.....

Calguns.net is monitored by law enforcement including the California DOJ, local agencies, and the Feds. We know this without a doubt and have even been subpoenaed for records before in criminal investigations.

.....

So, does this mean we can leave messages here for those Liberty hating jack wagon thugs?

....actually, I can't think of anything to say that doesn't include profanity....

.

[SWalt]

Originally Posted by LBDamned

It's a sticky - you don't need to bump it, it stays at the top.

When I open CGN there are no "stickies" shown. First thing I do is look at Subscribed Threads. After perusing them I open New Posts to see what else is going on. Then maybe I will go to threads that are under categories such as the 2A forums header. At no time are "stickies" shown. The only way I saw this thread was looking at New Posts. If this thread had not been shown in New Posts I would have never seen it. I suspect others do not see "stickies" either unless they go looking for them. Perhaps "stickies" should be shown no matter how you open GCN and have to be closed in order to view other threads.

[opos]

I have a question..may or may no be applicable here. I frequent another forum where there is a particular board that is not available to the general public...it is by "approval" only...in order to use the board you have to apply to the moderators who validate the user's identity , etc...I was only thinking that for items that often get discussed like new products that might aid in "compliance" with the new laws, etc, could be freely discussed without fear it is feeding "visitors" that are interested in trying to create legislation to block any efforts that might be presented to help "comply" with the law and still maintain our freedoms.

I know there are "visitors" on line all the time and the things that are often discussed openly have got to be fodder for their legislative efforts...one that comes to mind is the single shot exemption that was often touted and even bragged about on Calguns and I'm sure some of that bragging led to the legislation that altered the single shot exemption...if there was a "quiet" place for approved members to discuss things like that it might keep the trolls at bay..

Just a thought. I know the other board I mention had some serious problems with posts in the open forums and now the "approved only" board has allowed for an exchange without the general public being involved.

[Lex Talionis]

Originally Posted by mt4design

Thank you to CalGuns staff for your tireless efforts on our behalf.

This is a welcome policy and an excellent warning.

However, what we're seeing in recent trends by TPTB is ex post facto making what was legal yesterday illegal tomorrow and the First Amendment is as under assault as the Second.

So, while I applaud the warning and the gesture, there really is nothing to stop an overreaching despotic regime from using what ever it deems "inappropriate" in order to further its agenda.

Great post!

Good advice, thanks! And as a new member I appreciate the ability to discuss these important issues and will endeavor to do so in regard to the way it needs to work around here.

I for one do not advocate for anyone to commit a crime. The tricky thing is that the gun laws here in California are like a greased pig. If being culpable of criminal action requires "mens rea" (a guilty mind). How does one not become a criminal when the moving yardstick becomes the "action" and not a guilty mind (a desire to violate the law)? In other words: you comply with the law, then they change the law and make you the criminal without any act on your part other than complying with the first law? The problem will always be the moving yardstick-- which is why the 2nd amendment was not designed to move in the first place. So if I 'don't move' is this omission equal to an action to cross that proverbial yardstick? Something we are all trying to figure out I guess.

Thanks again. Great forum!

[cavemanlrrp]

Copy.

Thanks for moderaten.

Best
caveman

[9mmContagion]

CalGuns needs to be closed for 24 hour maintenance to clean up all the garbage and rebooted with new implementations. All of these threads are too far deep in "work arounds"

[REH]

Originally Posted by Ldarshay

CalGuns needs to be closed for 24 hour maintenance to clean up all the garbage and rebooted with new implementations. All of these threads are too far deep in "work arounds"

Why is it called a "work around"? How about a device that complies with the current law?

[dchang0]

Originally Posted by opos

I have a question..may or may no be applicable here. I frequent another forum where there is a particular board that is not available to the general public...it is by "approval" only...in order to use the board you have to apply to the moderators who validate the user's identity , etc...

This puts quite a heavy load on the moderators and may suck them into a "conspiracy" that's being "planned" by approved members they can't really know. (The words in scare quotes are going to be what the CADOJ accuses some innocent users of.) If the moderators control who gets into a forum and who doesn't, they can be accused of organizing the group and being its leader.

Also, law enforcement will have no trouble sending in undercover officers into whatever forum they wish to get into. Spying is one thing they do really well, judging the actual threat of a person is not (as we see from the Orlando terrorist who was investigated twice by the FBI and let go = real threat; people joking about judges in woodchippers = not a real threat).

[Mute]

I agree with everyone that an opportunity to vent is a good idea. Kudos to the staff for dealing with a difficult choice during a difficult time.

[ssaction]

Time to move to the Dark Web? Tor for everyone!

[RANGER295]

Originally Posted by ssaction

Time to move to the Dark Web? Tor for everyone!

Yeah, from now on CGN contributions in bitcoin

[Cokebottle]

Originally Posted by REH

Why is it called a "work around"? How about a device that complies with the current law?

Because the law has not yet been implemented and there are 2 months left to "gut and amend" another Global Warming bill into another anti-2A bill that closes any compliance methods that have been discussed.

[Subotai]

Originally Posted by RANGER295

and have even been subpoenaed for records before in criminal investigations.

I don't think by law you are required to keep data. Seems to me, you can purge at will at a regular interval.

[RANGER295]

Originally Posted by frankm

I don't think by law you are required to keep data. Seems to me, you can purge at will at a regular interval.

You are correct but it is not really practical. Consider this, there are almost 16.8 million posts on CGN made by almost 250k members. It is impossible for the staff to read through all of that and purge what should be and leave the rest. I guess we could start doing hard deletes when we delete stuff but that would create a management problem for us. When we (or you) delete something, we can still see it and often use it to establish a history on a member and decide consequences such as a warning, or the length of a ban. If we were to just purge after say a year or six months, we would loose a lot of very valuable material.

It would be illegal to purge after receiving a subpoena. Usually a subpoena is for all posts made by a given member or a group of members.

[Subotai]

Yeah, guess you'd have to have someone fulltime for something like that. I work for a gov entity and we purge routinely. Or so I hear.

[RANGER295]

Originally Posted by frankm

Yeah, guess you'd have to have someone fulltime for something like that. I work for a gov entity and we purge routinely. Or so I hear.

You work for Clinton?

Edit... It could be the IRS too

[Bgillette91]

Sad that the feds are intently watching us post about being pissed off for our rights being trampled, meanwhile theres plenty of terrorists, drug/weapon/human traffickers, serial murderers and rapists out there that need to be stopped like 5 minutes ago. But no, lets spend our time on CG and see if we can get these gun nuts on a search warrant.

Makes me sick.

Thanks CG staff for being honest.

[OlderThanDirt]

Many years ago my brother in law, who was living with us, would use my computer to access calguns on my account. After I got banned I went back and read some of the posts and was pretty appalled. It would not have been very pleasant if he had attracted the attention of LE. It was just a coincidence that he died a short time later.

Moral of the story...secure your calguns account as you would your bank account if other people can access your computer. Your dog's life might depend on it.