Panoche & Tumey Hills BLM questions???

[csshih]

we should arrange for a calguns trip

[pogen]

Originally Posted by Sam1234

I spoke with Lanore and Brian. Both were very helpful with Lanore going out of her way to email me a map that clarified the roads and area.

Can you post that here? Or Google Docs or whatever?

Thanks!

[Sam1234]

Originally Posted by pogen

Can you post that here? Or Google Docs or whatever?

Thanks!

Absolutely not! This is now my secret spot.

OH, OK....................

Here is the map in 2 parts.

[pogen]

OK, next question, if I am in Tumey Hills (an unincorporated area of Fresno County), and I am doing pistol target practice, am I allowed to wear a holster to hold the loaded or unloaded gun, or am I supposed to carry it in my hand or put it on the ground or card table while I hike over to replace my targets?

I tried to read up on this question, but the laws are very complicated, as you all know.

[pogen]

Originally Posted by Sam1234

Absolutely not! This is now my secret spot.

.

Thanks! Figuring this out for newbies has been a bit of a group effort. I appreciate the other members of this forum who have shared their know-how.

[Sam1234]

Originally Posted by pogen

OK, next question, if I am in Tumey Hills (an unincorporated area of Fresno County), and I am doing pistol target practice, am I allowed to wear a holster to hold the loaded or unloaded gun, or am I supposed to carry it in my hand or put it on the ground or card table while I hike over to replace my targets?

I tried to read up on this question, but the laws are very complicated, as you all know.

I asked the same questions!

Here is the weird part. I couldn't actually get a straight legal answer. Technically they want you to carry your firearm in a locked case and only unlock the case when you are at your shooting site. No holster, open carry is not legal in CA, not concealed, unless you have a concealed permit which is impossible for Santa Clara county where I live.

I was told that the only LEO types we will encounter in the area are CA fish and game or the BLM people and they have pretty good common sense. If I were hiking into a shooting location with targets, backpack, etc and had my pistol unloaded in my backpack they would understand. Technically not legal, concealed, but I wouldn't be hassled.

Training with a holstered gun at your shooting location while again technically not legal, open carry, won't be a problem.

I discussed my desire to train drawing from a holster, open and concealed and he indicated that it really won't be a problem.

This is the problem in a state like CA that doesn't recognize the US Constitution. The laws as written can be vague, counterintuitive and up for numerous interpretations by the various LEO's in the state.

This can make it damn near impossible for honest law abiding citizens to actually comply with laws that have a fluid interpretation.

[NapalmCheese]

Originally Posted by Sam1234

I asked the same questions!

Here is the weird part. I couldn't actually get a straight legal answer. Technically they want you to carry your firearm in a locked case and only unlock the case when you are at your shooting site. No holster, open carry is not legal in CA, not concealed, unless you have a concealed permit which is impossible for Santa Clara county where I live.

I was told that the only LEO types we will encounter in the area are CA fish and game or the BLM people and they have pretty good common sense. If I were hiking into a shooting location with targets, backpack, etc and had my pistol unloaded in my backpack they would understand. Technically not legal, concealed, but I wouldn't be hassled.

Training with a holstered gun at your shooting location while again technically not legal, open carry, won't be a problem.

I discussed my desire to train drawing from a holster, open and concealed and he indicated that it really won't be a problem.

This is the problem in a state like CA that doesn't recognize the US Constitution. The laws as written can be vague, counterintuitive and up for numerous interpretations by the various LEO's in the state.

This can make it damn near impossible for honest law abiding citizens to actually comply with laws that have a fluid interpretation.

Dude, it's time to start reading the regulations on your own instead of waiting for the ranger, the admin, or whomever to tell you what they think the law means.

They know it about as well as you, and they will say whatever they want.

Read the regs. What matters is what's written, and what case law has already been established. People are fallible, including the rangers and administrative staff at the BLM; and their interpretation of some term or rule isn't necessarily consistent with case law or what a judge may interpret it as. They may tell you something is prohibited when it is not. They may ticket you for doing something they THINK is prohibited when it is not. You can 'play it safe' and not do anything, or you can familiarize yourself with the rules and regulations of the place where you plan to recreate. I've even heard of times when a ranger has specifically said something is NOT prohibited when in fact it was.

And read mudcampers thread.

Originally Posted by From Mudcamper's thread

*2 - National Forest and BLM Details:

- LOC and UOC are legal everywhere except "prohibited areas" (areas where shooting is prohibited)
- LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605)
- Shooting is prohibited within 150 yards of any residence, building, campsite, or developed site ("prohibited areas")
- Shooting is prohibited on or across roads or bodies of water ("prohibited areas")
- common opinion is that UOC of handguns is now illegal in "prohibited areas" of NF/BLM (AB144 / PC 26350) not all agree (PC 26388)
- Forest administrators have the authority to prohibit shooting in other areas of the NF but must clearly post this information ("prohibited areas")
- IMPORTANT NOTICE - some NFs are now banning shooting almost entirely - see this post - this makes the entire forest a "prohibited area"
- BLM administrators may post closures and restrictions regarding firearms use ("prohibited areas")

Where LOC = Loaded Open Carry and UOC = Unloaded Open Carry.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=186457

Long story short:
Open carry is legal wherever shooting is permitted.

[pogen]

Thanks NapalmCheese,

What you said was what I had understood -- except that it is up to Fresno County to determine 'prohibited areas'.

If a BLM or other area allows shooting, then it is non-prohibited by definition it seems.

[Sam1234]

Originally Posted by NapalmCheese

Dude, it's time to start reading the regulations on your own instead of waiting for the ranger, the admin, or whomever to tell you what they think the law means.

They know it about as well as you, and they will say whatever they want.

Read the regs. What matters is what's written, and what case law has already been established. People are fallible, including the rangers and administrative staff at the BLM; and their interpretation of some term or rule isn't necessarily consistent with case law or what a judge may interpret it as. They may tell you something is prohibited when it is not. They may ticket you for doing something they THINK is prohibited when it is not. You can 'play it safe' and not do anything, or you can familiarize yourself with the rules and regulations of the place where you plan to recreate. I've even heard of times when a ranger has specifically said something is NOT prohibited when in fact it was.

And read mudcampers thread.


Where LOC = Loaded Open Carry and UOC = Unloaded Open Carry.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=186457

Long story short:
Open carry is legal wherever shooting is permitted.

Some truth, some fallacy. I am trying to get to the bottom of this but it will take me some time:

I will try and look up and verify Mudcampers post.

For starters: This is the federal statute/regulation for BLM land.
Basically, there are no federal laws with regard to shooting on BLM land.

8365.1-7 State and local laws.

Except as otherwise provided by Federal law or regulation, State and local laws and ordinances shall apply and be enforced by the appropriate State and local authorities. This includes, but is not limited to, State and local laws and ordinances governing:

(a) Operation and use of motor vehicles, aircraft and boats;

(b) Hunting and fishing;

(c) Use of firearms or other weapons;

(d) Injury to persons, or destruction or damage to property;

(e) Air and water pollution;

(f) Littering;

(g) Sanitation;

(h) Use of fire;

(i) Pets;

(j) Forest products; and

(k) Caves.

[NapalmCheese]

Originally Posted by Sam1234

Some truth, some fallacy. I am trying to get to the bottom of this but it will take me some time:

I will try and look up and verify Mudcampers post.

What's the fallacy?

[Sam1234]

Originally Posted by NapalmCheese

What's the fallacy?

I can not totally verify the following:

- LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605)

CA does state you may have a loaded or unloaded gun at your campsite. Good, I think.

Where I run into trouble with this is while I think I can define a campsite, how far does this campsite definition go. One foot from your sleeping bag, two feet, 10 feet? 25 feet to the porta potty? State law states you can have a loaded or unloaded gun at your campsite, but state law also prohibits open or concealed carry. (Unless you have a Concealed Carry license.) If your camping without a tent and have a firearm it will be open for all to see. Is that legal? For my situation, I have a small trailer, do I have to leave the gun in the trailer even if I was sitting right outside leaning against the trailer having lunch? Am I still in/at my "campsite?" Does the "campsite" void CA law against open or conceal carry?

My questions are not meant for logical or rational discussion. They are meant for finding a legal answer.

[Sam1234]

Here is a link to TITLE 43--PUBLIC LANDS: INTERIOR

CHAPTER II--BUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT,
DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

https://www.blm.gov/nhp/news/regulat...43CFR8365.html

This seems to be all the federal regulations that apply to BLM lands and recreational use.

Next will be trying to find in print the state and local regulations.

A sample on one regulation:

On all public lands, no person shall:
(a) Camp longer than the period of time permitted by the authorized
officer;

I find laws/regulations etc like this to be ridiculous. This means there are no written rules as to how long you are permitted to camp. It is up to the individual officer. Officer Billy says "no problem stay a week." Officer George says no way two days max".

[pogen]

Can I just say that my holster when used on BLM land is a Sanctuary Holster, and only Federal, and not State laws apply?

[Sam1234]

Hunting and Shooting on
Bureau of Land Management Public Lands

https://www.ca.blm.gov/pdfs/palmspri...0Lands-BLM.pdf

Still researching.

[Sam1234]

California Firearms
Laws Summary

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...df/cfl2016.pdf

Excerpt:

FIREARMS IN THE HOME, BUSINESS OR AT THE CAMPSITE

Unless otherwise unlawful, any person over the age of 18 who is not prohibited
from possessing firearms may have a loaded or unloaded firearm at his or her
place of residence, temporary residence, campsite or on private property owned
or lawfully possessed by the person . Any person engaged in lawful business
(including nonprofit organizations) or any officer, employee or agent authorized
for lawful purposes connected with the business may have a loaded firearm
within the place of business if that person is over 18 years of age and not otherwise
prohibited from possessing firearms . (Pen . Code, §§ 25605, 26035 .)
NOTE: If a person’s place of business, residence, temporary residence, campsite
or private property is located within an area where possession of a firearm is
prohibited by local or federal laws, such laws would prevail

[NapalmCheese]

Originally Posted by Sam1234

I can not totally verify the following:

- LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605)

CA does state you may have a loaded or unloaded gun at your campsite. Good, I think.

Where I run into trouble with this is while I think I can define a campsite, how far does this campsite definition go. One foot from your sleeping bag, two feet, 10 feet? 25 feet to the porta potty? State law states you can have a loaded or unloaded gun at your campsite, but state law also prohibits open or concealed carry. (Unless you have a Concealed Carry license.) If your camping without a tent and have a firearm it will be open for all to see. Is that legal? For my situation, I have a small trailer, do I have to leave the gun in the trailer even if I was sitting right outside leaning against the trailer having lunch? Am I still in/at my "campsite?" Does the "campsite" void CA law against open or conceal carry?

My questions are not meant for logical or rational discussion. They are meant for finding a legal answer.

So, it's not a fallacy, you're simply ignorant of the truth.
You also didn't read enough of Mudcamper's post.

Originally Posted by Mudcamper's post, and also CA PC

25850. (a)A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when the person carries a loaded firearm on the person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

26055. Nothing in Section 25850 shall prevent any person from having a loaded weapon, if it is otherwise lawful, at the person's place of residence, including any temporary residence or campsite.

17030. As used in this part, "prohibited area" means any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon.

16840. (b) (1) A firearm shall be deemed to be "loaded" when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell, consisting of a case that holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm.

26350. (a) (1) A person is guilty of openly carrying an unloaded handgun when that person carries upon his or her person an exposed and unloaded handgun...

26366. Section 26350 does not apply to, or affect, the open carrying of an unloaded handgun by a licensed hunter while engaged in hunting or while transporting that handgun when going to or returning from that hunting expedition.

26383. Paragraph (1) of subdivision (a) of Section 26350 does not apply to, or affect, the open carrying of an unloaded handgun by a person when done within a place of business, a place of residence, or on private property...

26388. Section 26350 does not apply to, or affect, the open carrying of an unloaded handgun on publicly owned land, if the possession and use of a handgun is specifically permitted by the managing agency of the land and the person carrying that handgun is in lawful possession of that handgun.

25850(a) makes loaded open carry legal anywhere that isn't a public place or street in incorporated city and isn't a public place or public street in a prohibited area.

That's your legal reason LOC is legal anywhere on BLM land that it's legal to shoot. UOC also follows from other PCs.

If you are driving your trailer onto BLM land with the intention of target shooting in a place where it's legal to target shoot then it's certainly legal to LOC in your campsite. If that's not what you're referring to, I would suggest you start another post about "what's my campsite" instead of continuing on in a post about whether or not Panoche BLM is open (and can you shoot there).

[NapalmCheese]

Here you go, no legal definition of campsite:

Originally Posted by http://cucamongawilderness.org/ca-firearms-laws-and-the-forest/

Since there are many "campsites" in the Wilderness and firearms are allowed in one's campsite, the definition is important. There is no legal definition of "campsite" in CA but there is case law that defines it:


ANDERSON V. CITY OF PORTLAND, 2009 U.S. DIST. LEXIS 67519 (D. OR. JULY 30, 2009)


Campsite is defined as "any place where any bedding, sleeping bag, or other sleeping matter, or any stove or fire is placed, established, or maintained, whether or not such place incorporates the use of any tent, lean-to, shack, or any other structure."

Also, according Alaskan National Park Service, 36 CFR 13.104 [Title 36-Parks, Forests, and Public Property -Chapter 1-National Park Service, Department of the Interior-Part 13-National Park System Units in Aalaska-Subpart C-Cabins-Administrative Provisions] temporary campsite means “a natural, undeveloped area suitable for the purpose of overnight occupancy without modification.”

It is important to note that since laws, especially in CA, overlap each other it is possible to inadvertently violate one law while complying with another. Here is a good example:

Scenario 1: A licensed fisherman is fishing a stream in the National Forest, within 150 yards of a developed campsite. He is carrying a loaded concealed handgun.
Status: illegal - while not violating PC12025 (concealed) because of PC12027(g), he is violating 12031 (loaded) because the nearby campsite triggers the "prohibited area" language. If he moves 150 yards away from the campsite, he is in compliance and now legal.

Scenario 2: You are in a National Forest, or a National Park, or on BLM land, in your campsite, carrying a loaded handgun openly or concealed.
Status: legal - PC12031(l) exempts you from PC12031 and PC12026(a) exempts you from PC12025

There's a bit of case law but otherwise it's at the discretion of LEO if you are in your campsite; and if charged the discretion of the judge, and perhaps a jury.

[Sam1234]

Napalcheese

Although this post is primarily directed at trying to answer your questions it is also intended to provide others with whatever I have found.

First:- LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605)

So, it's not a fallacy, you're simply ignorant of the truth.
You also didn't read enough of Mudcamper's post.

Let' see if we can skip semantics. Fallacy, incorrect, not verifiable, complex without a simple yes, no answer, take your pick.

I am not seeking truth I am seeking the law.

I have read the post, and it is a great effort on Mudcamps part. I am not disparaging Mudcamp in any way. I am only trying to verify his conclusions.

I did read this definition, but this definition doesn't provide specific terminology with regard to size, shape, etc. Where does one's campsite end and public land begin? Once that is established what can one legally do in their campsite that is visible to the general public on public land?

Napalmcheese posted: There's a bit of case law but otherwise it's at the discretion of LEO if you are in your campsite; and if charged the discretion of the judge, and perhaps a jury.

This is the real world answer! My approach is to ask said LEO prior to rather than after.

Napalmcheese wrote: 25850(a) makes loaded open carry legal anywhere that isn't a public place or street in incorporated city and isn't a public place or public street in a prohibited area.

That's your legal reason LOC is legal anywhere on BLM land that it's legal to shoot. UOC also follows from other PCs.

Open carry is not generally permitted in CA. BLM land is public land.

here is a pretty good discussion on the subject: http://www.shouselaw.com/25850.html

[Sam1234]

For anyone still reading I will summarize my findings.

Tummy hills is open for shooting but the roads are closed for fire season.

Ther is an east and west entrance. The west entrance provides terrain suitable for long range rifle shooting but is a long (2-3 miles) hike in.

The west entrance provides good hills/backstop within a short walk, (100-300 yards) This area is very popular. There are many areas suitable for target shooting here.

Unfortunately many seem to leave "trigger trash" all over the place. the BLM folks try and clean it up but can't keep up. We can help here by doing the right thing.

They don't mind if you take targets, paper, even plastic bottles if you take it with you when you leave.

The LEO's who patrol the area are very familiar and accustomed to target shooters and accommodating.

Practice shooting from a holster, open or concealed at the shooting location will be fine.

You can RV camp in the parking lot.

These are my findings after speaking with everyone I could find from the local BLM office. If you believe I am in error please don't ask for names, dates, or video. Simply do your own research and do what you will.

[NapalmCheese]

Originally Posted by Sam1234

This is the real world answer! My approach is to ask said LEO prior to rather than after.

The LEO you ask isn't necessarily the LEO that will be ticketing or arresting you. What's the point of asking unless you ask all of them. Know the law, work within the bounds of the law.

Originally Posted by Sam1234

Napalmcheese wrote: 25850(a) makes loaded open carry legal anywhere that isn't a public place or street in incorporated city and isn't a public place or public street in a prohibited area.

That's your legal reason LOC is legal anywhere on BLM land that it's legal to shoot. UOC also follows from other PCs.

Open carry is not generally permitted in CA. BLM land is public land.

You say you don't want to deal with semantics, but that's precisely what you need to deal with.

Open carry is legal EVERYWHERE in California that isn't a public place or street in incorporated city and isn't a public place or street in a prohibited area.

Laws do not specify what is legal, they specify what is illegal. If it's not illegal, it is legal. The above PC specifies where it is illegal to loaded open carry. Anywhere else is legal.

You say that open carry is 'not generally permitted in CA', that is because the above PC (and the on about unloaded open carry) specify exactly where you aren't allowed to carry, and those areas where you aren't allowed to carry make up a significant portion of CA.

BLM is public land, but it is NOT a prohibited area if they allow shooting or hunting. As such, open carry is legal on BLM land that allows shooting or hunting. Not to mention BLM land may or may not be incorporated. The campground is a different story (not your campsite, the campground), and provides for more interesting discussion.

[AR805]

Going to Panoche this friday, hiking in from the gate (cars a piece of **** no valuables) Is it a far hike from the gate?

[csshih]

Originally Posted by AR805

Going to Panoche this friday, hiking in from the gate (cars a piece of **** no valuables) Is it a far hike from the gate?

I recall it not being far. Let us know how it goes!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[AR805]

Originally Posted by csshih

I recall it not being far. Let us know how it goes!

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Will do it isnt 100+ this week so already looking good. Ive been to Tumey hills , this is my first time @ Panoche.

[pogen]

I went to Tumey Hills a few Saturdays ago, the entry is about 2 mi West of the Panoche Rd exit off highway 5. By 11 AM there were 10 cars parked right outside the locked gate at the roadside.

We hiked in a few hundred yards with all our stuff. There were already some shooters set up on the right side of the road, so we set up on the left side shooting up into a small ravine. Good times shooting produce and steel targets. Next time we will probably bring a different selection of targets. It will be nice when they open the gates so we can spread out more and not of to lug that heavy steel so far!

Thanks everyone on this thread for their advice and info.

[Junkie]

At Panoche proper it's about 3 miles in. LONG hike, not what I'd recommend unless you can't find somewhere else.

[acegunnr]

Originally Posted by AR805

Going to Panoche this friday, hiking in from the gate (cars a piece of **** no valuables) Is it a far hike from the gate?

It is 3 miles uphill.

[csshih]

Originally Posted by acegunnr

It is 3 miles uphill.

Wait, really? Which gate to which shooting spot?

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[acegunnr]

Originally Posted by csshih

Wait, really? Which gate to which shooting spot?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

From the locked gate to the pit toilet.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[NapalmCheese]

Many people forget or are ignorant of the fact that there are 3 distinct places in a small geographical area. Panoche Reservoir (hunting allowed, target shooting is not, not BLM land), Panoche Hills (BLM land), and Tumey Hills (BLM land).

[Junkie]

Griswold Hills is fairly close too.

[Junkie]

The spot I regularly go to at Griswold seems to be getting seriously trashed (including water heaters, microwaves, etc).

Is anyone interested in doing a cleanup day? I'm thinking most likely in September due to the heat.

[Lamski]

Originally Posted by Junkie

The spot I regularly go to at Griswold seems to be getting seriously trashed (including water heaters, microwaves, etc).

Is anyone interested in doing a cleanup day? I'm thinking most likely in September due to the heat.

I haven't been yet but I want to get out there sometime soon. Maybe October when the gate opens? Or just carry it all in. I want to set up long range as there are no long range places to shoot in the bay area.

I'm up for a clean up and shooting day.

[BiggyMcwang]

I too am interested in doing some clean up and long range. Never been out to BLM before but meaning to try

[pogen]

I've been keeping an eye on this BLM news site

https://www.blm.gov/news/california

to see when the areas will be opened for vehicles, but no news so far. Right now with so many fires going near Santa Rosa, etc., lifting fire restrictions is probably not on the top of their to-do list, at least until we get a good heavy rain.

[SamC]

Looking to go up there once gates open. Looking to shoot up to 1000 yards. Can someone link areas where shooting is allowed or is it basically anywhere off Panoche Road in the Ponache and Tumey Hills?

[pogen]

Well damn, it was open this past weekend, but they did not announce until today.

https://www.blm.gov/press-release/bl...nd-tumey-hills


BLM reopens vehicle access to Panoche and Tumey Hills


Release Date
Tuesday, October 17, 2017


MARINA, Calif. – The Bureau of Land Management Central Coast Field Office has reopened the Panoche and Tumey Hills recreation areas to vehicle access as of Saturday, Oct. 14.

Outdoor enthusiasts are reminded that BLM-managed public lands in San Benito, Fresno and Monterey counties, which include the recreation areas, are still under fire restrictions that limit target shooting to 30 minutes before sunrise until noon. Recreational shooters must avoid the use of targets made of material that could explode or emit sparks and must carry shovels or fire extinguishers. The limitations do not apply to the use of firearms for hunting.

To ensure one less spark means one less wildfire, other restrictions for the areas include no campfires or open flames, no motorized vehicles allowed off established roads or trails and no smoking, except within an enclosed vehicle or building, or at a designated developed recreation site, or other designated areas.

The Panoche and Tumey Hills were once covered by a vast inland sea. Today, marine fossils of fish and turtles can be found and some of the light porous rocks contain tiny, bleached and shell-like skeletons of sea algae. The 2,500 feet high hilltops offer scenic vistas of the lush San Joaquin Valley and spectacular Sierra Nevada Mountains. Both areas offer day-use facilities with parking areas, shade structures, picnic benches, vault toilets and interpretive kiosks showing maps and information.

The BLM is committed to keeping public landscapes healthy and productive, while providing opportunities for outdoor recreation, hunting and fishing. For more information, please contact the Central Coast Field Office at 831-582-2200.

[SamC]

Yup. Will be out there this weekend lookin for a spot.

[KT_SF]

Originally Posted by pogen

still under fire restrictions that limit target shooting to 30 minutes before sunrise until noon.

Bummer about the Noon cutoff for target shooting (and previous posts indicate that the BLM Rangers do actually enforce the time restrictions) . After a long (and bumpy/dusty) drive to get there, and the time it takes to setup targets and cleanup the previous shooters' trash, that leaves relatively little time for shooting.

Fortunately, Metcalf recently extended weekday hours, so that's a better option for many south-bay shooters.

KT

Edit: here is a link to a recent thread a few months ago re fires started by target shooters in that area (which is why BLM rangers will likely be watching target shooters and enforcing restrictions) - be careful out there:
https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1330087

[pogen]

Hopefully they will go to all day after we get a bit more rain. It rained some in the Southbay last night.

[SamC]

Lot cooler temps and has rained a couple times. They need to lift the fire restrictions already.