Swapping Lehigh bullets into loaded ammunition

[crazy]

I already have loaded ammunition. Would it be safe to pull the bullets and replace with nonlead bullets off the same weight? Or would the be a kaboom in my face sentence.

[Imageview]

This would not be advisable.

[Tommy Gun]

Probably not a kaboom situation amd more of a pressure sign situation depending how hot you loaded them.

[Sandspider500]

Most non lead bullets are made of copper. Copper is almost 79% as dense as lead. So for an example, if you had a 147gr xtp 9mm bullet, and you had a company machine a bullet from copper that was an exact copy of that, it would weigh 115gr.

Another example, I have some Barnes 9mm 115gr hollow points, they have a large hollow cavity and are .693 long. I cast a 145gr deep hollow point bullet and it's .648 long.

What cartridge are you reloading for? Lehigh has load data if you need it.

[Divernhunter]

I would not advise that.

[divingin]

Are you talking about re-using the primed brass (i.e. standard reloading without the size and prime) or are you talking about Mexican Match reloading (keeping the existing powder charge and replacing just the bullet)?

In either case, cartridge, firearm type (and individual firearm), and reloading experience will all have a bearing on the decision.

Since you say replacing a lead bullet with a non-total-lead bullet, are you going solid copper or jacketed? Is this to come up with a hunting round, or simply to avoid shooting lead bullets?

If going all copper, the bullets are longer for an equivalent weight. In addition to overall length, reduced case capacity due to seating depth comes into play.

TLDR: If you don't know what you're doing, probably don't do it.

[crazy]

Thank you for the feedback. My intention was to load some rounds for pig hunting. Calibers would be .308, .270. I would like to load Lehigh all copper tree hugger friendly bullets. My thought was to use ammo that I have and just pull the bullets and seat and crimp the Lehigh. Replace the old with the new with the same weight. The reason for asking was to see if it would be safe. The consensus seems to be no. While I am not a handsome man, I would like to keep what little beauty I have left. So I will refrain.

[crazy]

Originally Posted by Sandspider500

Most non lead bullets are made of copper. Copper is almost 79% as dense as lead. So for an example, if you had a 147gr xtp 9mm bullet, and you had a company machine a bullet from copper that was an exact copy of that, it would weigh 115gr.

Another example, I have some Barnes 9mm 115gr hollow points, they have a large hollow cavity and are .693 long. I cast a 145gr deep hollow point bullet and it's .648 long.

What cartridge are you reloading for? Lehigh has load data if you need it.

I already stated that I am not a handsome man and maybe not the smartest either but your post confuses me. I had said that I would like to swap bullets for the same weight not size. I do understand that copper would be physically large.

[Sandspider500]

Okay, so you do understand that the copper bullet of the same weight will be longer. So you also understand what happens when you make the combustion chamber smaller right?

[Imageview]

For use in large game hunting the bullets need to be expanding as well as lead free. I have some 45-70 rounds I could use for squirrels but not pigs because they are lead feee but not expanding as an example.

[crazy]

Originally Posted by Sandspider500

Okay, so you do understand that the copper bullet of the same weight will be longer. So you also understand what happens when you make the combustion chamber smaller right?

From all the input, I have decided or have been convinced that this is not a good idea. I will load rounds starting from scratch.

[Sandspider500]

Are you swapping commercial loaded ammo or is it something you loaded?

[crazy]

I was thinking of doing this with commercial ammo but no more.

[Sandspider500]

Why wouldn't you just load your own with the data they provide?

[Sandspider500]

Interesting that if you look at the Barnes .308 175gr load data, most of the powder weights are the same, and sometimes exceeding the powder weights of the lead counterpart.

This is not the case for the Lehigh bullets, for what reason I don't know. The difference with the Lehigh data is as much as 5gr less powder for a 175gr.

[Dirtlaw]

I think Lehigh has guides. If not PM me and I will send the information that I have. That said .. I'm old so don't expect it tomorrow.

[nedro]

The sky is falling folk crack me up.
I have an AR in 6.8 SPC. I bought my action and Barrel from ARPerforance.
Then I found Remington 6.8 ammo and bought it. My rig wouldn't cycle.
Then I noticed hat the web site warns against sing the REM ammo. States that if you plan on using it, let them know and they will drill a larger gas port for you.

So I pulled all the bullets and took measurements.
Then I worked up the loads until I found the sweet spot. I used the same bullets and powder. I ended up with a bit more than 70% of the ammo I started with.

To this day, they were some of the most constant (and Accurate) loads I have produced for my 6.8. But I won't do it again. I have my recipes.

As the chart shows earlier in this thread. Take "everything" into account when you reload. And always work up the loads. Pretty simple.

[crazy]

Originally Posted by Sandspider500

Why wouldn't you just load your own with the data they provide?

Because I have ammo that I bought years ago for hunting that is not legal for hunting in California. I thought about swapping the bullets but wanted to ask.

[therealnickb]

Thanks for the thread. I had the exact same idea. Bought 500 rounds of fed 180gr 300 win mag a long time ago. Seems hard to believe there is no copper bullet available that can’t be swapped safely.

But… I have zero experience. So I’ll keep reading.

[JagerDog]

Glad you asked first. Ya, bad idea.

I'm a bit concerned that someone with the capacity to reload, didn't already understand the physics.

But, when going to copper, we tend to drop projectile weight. This helps keep the bullet "about" the same length as it's lead counterpart and increases the velocity for more reliable expansion. Early in the copper game folks stuck to same weight and wounded a lot of game due to lack of expansion.

Depending on the twist rate, you could have some real accuracy problems with same weight copper projectile as well. Longer bullets suggest faster twist rate.

Haven’t even got into how copper is generally tough for the rifling to engrave, increasing chamber pressure and likes a bit of “jump” to get going. So yeh, start low and work up.

[crazy]

Originally Posted by JagerDog

Glad you asked first. Ya, bad idea.

I'm a bit concerned that someone with the capacity to reload, didn't already understand the physics.

But, when going to copper, we tend to drop projectile weight. This helps keep the bullet "about" the same length as it's lead counterpart and increases the velocity for more reliable expansion. Early in the copper game folks stuck to same weight and wounded a lot of game due to lack of expansion.

Depending on the twist rate, you could have some real accuracy problems with same weight copper projectile as well. Longer bullets suggest faster twist rate.

Haven’t even got into how copper is generally tough for the rifling to engrave, increasing chamber pressure and likes a bit of “jump” to get going. So yeh, start low and work up.

I already stated that I'm not handsome and not the smartest but now I need to know physics too. What about English or math? I am really getting tired of the snotty better than you attitude on calguns. I came here to ask and to learn. I had already decided after the first replies against it. What else do you want? Light myself on fire while jumping off a bridge?

[ar15barrels]

Originally Posted by therealnickb

Thanks for the thread. I had the exact same idea. Bought 500 rounds of fed 180gr 300 win mag a long time ago. Seems hard to believe there is no copper bullet available that can’t be swapped safely.

But… I have zero experience. So I’ll keep reading.

You could likely swap for a bullet of the same length but that bullet would be a lot lighter than the lead bullet and that would mean that the powder charge intended for the lead bullet would not be optimum.
Also, the starting pressure is higher on a solid copper bullet than a lead-core bullet since the copper bullet does not obturate as easily.
That's why you see most copper bullets constructed with driving bands to reduce the bearing area and ease obturation.

Now just for fun, lets play in quickload and substitute a similar length lead-free bullet for a standard bullet in a 300 win mag load:

First the 1.288" long lead bullet:

Cartridge          : .300 Win. Mag.(F)
Bullet             : .308, 180, Sierra SPBT 2160 G7 Litz
Useable Case Capaci: 82.639 grain H2O = 5.366 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 7828 SSC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.127% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-00.9  100    78.00   3157    3985   61567  12188     99.3    1.197  ! Near Maximum !
-00.8  100    78.10   3162    3995   61843  12197     99.3    1.194  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.6  100    78.20   3166    4006   62122  12207     99.3    1.192  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.5  100    78.30   3170    4016   62401  12216     99.3    1.190  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.4  100    78.40   3174    4027   62681  12225     99.4    1.187  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.3  100    78.50   3178    4037   62962  12234     99.4    1.185 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Now the 1.283" long lead-free bullet:

Cartridge          : .300 Win. Mag.(F)
Bullet             : .308, 150, Barnes 'TSX'BT 30347
Useable Case Capaci: 81.651 grain H2O = 5.302 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 7828 SSC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.127% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-00.9  101    78.00   3297    3620   56773  11676     96.6    1.155  ! Near Maximum !
-00.8  101    78.10   3301    3630   57020  11689     96.6    1.153  ! Near Maximum !
-00.6  101    78.20   3306    3640   57269  11702     96.7    1.150  ! Near Maximum !
-00.5  101    78.30   3310    3650   57519  11715     96.8    1.148  ! Near Maximum !
-00.4  101    78.40   3315    3660   57771  11728     96.8    1.146  ! Near Maximum !
-00.3  102    78.50   3320    3670   58023  11741     96.9    1.143  ! Near Maximum !

Now lets try a lead-free bullet of the same weight with the same powder charge and OAL as above:

Cartridge          : .300 Win. Mag.(F)
Bullet             : .308, 180, Barnes 'X' BT 30840
Useable Case Capaci: 79.643 grain H2O = 5.171 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 7828 SSC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.127% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-00.9  103    78.00   3258    4242   71923  11907     99.8    1.127  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.8  104    78.10   3262    4253   72242  11914     99.8    1.125  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.6  104    78.20   3266    4264   72565  11920     99.8    1.122  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.5  104    78.30   3270    4274   72888  11927     99.8    1.120  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.4  104    78.40   3274    4285   73213  11934     99.8    1.118  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.3  104    78.50   3279    4296   73540  11940     99.8    1.116  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

And one more thing to try is to find a copper bullet that might be longer than the lead bullet but still lighter so as to balance the change in weight against the change in case capacity and get to a nice pressure with the same load as the 180gr lead bullet.
It turns out that the 165gr barnes TSX is 1.295" long and is possibly a good substitute for the 1.288" long 180gr sierra BTSP.
This is just with one specific powder and all theoretical as it's just playing with a computer model so don't go and actually try that substitution without working up proper loads...

Cartridge          : .300 Win. Mag.(F)
Bullet             : .308, 165, Barnes 'TSX'BT 30349
Useable Case Capaci: 81.429 grain H2O = 5.287 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 7828 SSC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.127% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-00.9  101    78.00   3253    3878   61576  11943     98.5    1.158  ! Near Maximum !
-00.8  101    78.10   3258    3888   61851  11954     98.5    1.155  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.6  101    78.20   3262    3898   62124  11965     98.5    1.153  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.5  102    78.30   3266    3909   62397  11975     98.6    1.151  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.4  102    78.40   3271    3919   62674  11986     98.6    1.148  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.3  102    78.50   3275    3930   62950  11996     98.6    1.146  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

[crazy]

Originally Posted by ar15barrels

You could likely swap for a bullet of the same length but that bullet would be a lot lighter than the lead bullet and that would mean that the powder charge intended for the lead bullet would not be optimum.
Also, the starting pressure is higher on a solid copper bullet than a lead-core bullet since the copper bullet does not obturate as easily.
That's why you see most copper bullets constructed with driving bands to reduce the bearing area and ease obturation.

Now just for fun, lets play in quickload and substitute a similar length lead-free bullet for a standard bullet in a 300 win mag load:

First the 1.288" long lead bullet:

Cartridge          : .300 Win. Mag.(F)
Bullet             : .308, 180, Sierra SPBT 2160 G7 Litz
Useable Case Capaci: 82.639 grain H2O = 5.366 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 7828 SSC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.127% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-00.9  100    78.00   3157    3985   61567  12188     99.3    1.197  ! Near Maximum !
-00.8  100    78.10   3162    3995   61843  12197     99.3    1.194  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.6  100    78.20   3166    4006   62122  12207     99.3    1.192  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.5  100    78.30   3170    4016   62401  12216     99.3    1.190  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.4  100    78.40   3174    4027   62681  12225     99.4    1.187  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.3  100    78.50   3178    4037   62962  12234     99.4    1.185 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Now the 1.283" long lead-free bullet:

Cartridge          : .300 Win. Mag.(F)
Bullet             : .308, 150, Barnes 'TSX'BT 30347
Useable Case Capaci: 81.651 grain H2O = 5.302 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 7828 SSC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.127% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-00.9  101    78.00   3297    3620   56773  11676     96.6    1.155  ! Near Maximum !
-00.8  101    78.10   3301    3630   57020  11689     96.6    1.153  ! Near Maximum !
-00.6  101    78.20   3306    3640   57269  11702     96.7    1.150  ! Near Maximum !
-00.5  101    78.30   3310    3650   57519  11715     96.8    1.148  ! Near Maximum !
-00.4  101    78.40   3315    3660   57771  11728     96.8    1.146  ! Near Maximum !
-00.3  102    78.50   3320    3670   58023  11741     96.9    1.143  ! Near Maximum !

Now lets try a lead-free bullet of the same weight with the same powder charge and OAL as above:

Cartridge          : .300 Win. Mag.(F)
Bullet             : .308, 180, Barnes 'X' BT 30840
Useable Case Capaci: 79.643 grain H2O = 5.171 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 7828 SSC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.127% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-00.9  103    78.00   3258    4242   71923  11907     99.8    1.127  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.8  104    78.10   3262    4253   72242  11914     99.8    1.125  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.6  104    78.20   3266    4264   72565  11920     99.8    1.122  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.5  104    78.30   3270    4274   72888  11927     99.8    1.120  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.4  104    78.40   3274    4285   73213  11934     99.8    1.118  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.3  104    78.50   3279    4296   73540  11940     99.8    1.116  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

And one more thing to try is to find a copper bullet that might be longer than the lead bullet but still lighter so as to balance the change in weight against the change in case capacity and get to a nice pressure with the same load as the 180gr lead bullet.
It turns out that the 165gr barnes TSX is 1.295" long and is possibly a good substitute for the 1.288" long 180gr sierra BTSP.
This is just with one specific powder and all theoretical as it's just playing with a computer model so don't go and actually try that substitution without working up proper loads...

Cartridge          : .300 Win. Mag.(F)
Bullet             : .308, 165, Barnes 'TSX'BT 30349
Useable Case Capaci: 81.429 grain H2O = 5.287 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length      : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Powder             : IMR 7828 SSC

Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 0.127% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !

Step    Fill. Charge   Vel.  Energy   Pmax   Pmuz  Prop.Burnt B_Time
 %       %    Grains   fps   ft.lbs    psi    psi      %        ms

-00.9  101    78.00   3253    3878   61576  11943     98.5    1.158  ! Near Maximum !
-00.8  101    78.10   3258    3888   61851  11954     98.5    1.155  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.6  101    78.20   3262    3898   62124  11965     98.5    1.153  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.5  102    78.30   3266    3909   62397  11975     98.6    1.151  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.4  102    78.40   3271    3919   62674  11986     98.6    1.148  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
-00.3  102    78.50   3275    3930   62950  11996     98.6    1.146  !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!

Thank you for this insightful and educational reply.

[therealnickb]

Yeah, thanks Randall! Those tables help a lot. Definitely going to hold off on any near maximum experiments until I full understand what I’m doing.

[JagerDog]

Originally Posted by crazy

I already stated that I'm not handsome and not the smartest but now I need to know physics too. What about English or math? I am really getting tired of the snotty better than you attitude on calguns. I came here to ask and to learn. I had already decided after the first replies against it. What else do you want? Light myself on fire while jumping off a bridge?

OK child.

It's not "snotty" to suggest you understand what you're playing with and have the knowledge based intuition to make wise choices. No one expects one to be a ballistician to reload ammo, but when working "off-grid" you need an understanding of the physics. Even without Randall's LoadData modeling, the results are as anticipated. Same propellant in a smaller space sends pressure to the moon quickly. Most everyone who replied, understands this. Are they Physics PhD's or ballisticians? Not likely.

1) You don't put significantly longer projectiles to the same COAL and expect good things to happen.

2) When "converting" from lead to copper ammo, go down in projectile mass for best results (performance and often accuracy).


I'll add copper tends to a different profile, so OAL that fits your chamber tends to change. And copper likes a bit of "jump", reducing case capacity even further.

[JackEllis]

OP, I'm going to step in and referee a bit.

None of us wants to see anyone hurt. I'm not nearly as experienced as most of the people who have posted but I'll tell a little story that's worth keeping in the back of your mind.

For hunting I chose .308 diameter 150 grain Hornady GMX bullets and proceeded to work up a load using the recommended procedures and Hornady's data, which happens to be identical for all of their 150 grain bullets. At abut halfway between recommended minimum and maximum powder charge weights for the powder I was using, I started seeing cratering in the primers and muzzle velocities that were comparable to max charge weight in the factory load data, whereupon I stopped testing the hotter loads. The lesson for me was, be very careful. Nothing bad happened and I want to keep it that way.

If some of the folks who respond to your posts seem a bit huffy, they probably look like me: what's left of their hair is gray, the have wrinkles, and their time on this earth has made them cynics and curmudgeons. Try to pick out the useful nuggets of information and just let the rest wash over you.

I've learned most of what I know about reloading by reading posts in in this forum and teasing out the pearls of wisdom. I'm not any better looking and some days I feel like an unusual number of marbles have escaped but at least my face is intact.

[roostersgt]

Originally Posted by JackEllis

OP, I'm going to step in and referee a bit.

None of us wants to see anyone hurt. I'm not nearly as experienced as most of the people who have posted but I'll tell a little story that's worth keeping in the back of your mind.

For hunting I chose .308 diameter 150 grain Hornady GMX bullets and proceeded to work up a load using the recommended procedures and Hornady's data, which happens to be identical for all of their 150 grain bullets. At abut halfway between recommended minimum and maximum powder charge weights for the powder I was using, I started seeing cratering in the primers and muzzle velocities that were comparable to max charge weight in the factory load data, whereupon I stopped testing the hotter loads. The lesson for me was, be very careful. Nothing bad happened and I want to keep it that way.

If some of the folks who respond to your posts seem a bit huffy, they probably look like me: what's left of their hair is gray, the have wrinkles, and their time on this earth has made them cynics and curmudgeons. Try to pick out the useful nuggets of information and just let the rest wash over you.

I've learned most of what I know about reloading by reading posts in in this forum and teasing out the pearls of wisdom. I'm not any better looking and some days I feel like an unusual number of marbles have escaped but at least my face is intact.

I was noticing the same thing, but with Barnes TTSX bullets. The COAL is same as for all 308s of 150grns SP, 2.081 and the starting load with Varget is the same at 41-46 grs. I load all my 308s of that weight to 43.6 for accuracy and have loaded to 44 grs with no signs of pressure. While its probably not a good idea, for all the reasons already mentioned, it must be noted that standard lead bullets of the same weight use the same parameters as the copper bullets Ive loaded. Most hunters after WWII pulled the FMJ bullets out of the surplus ammo and replaced them with the same weight/type soft points with no problem either. With all this said, Id just pull the bullets, dump the powder, and use my own powder and copper bullets to be on the safe side. Not much savings for the risk taken.

[Tripplet918]

I dont know what your motivation is and if its justified.

Why not….

1) shoot the loaded ammo, collect the cases, then load the Lehigh projectiles? You get to shoot for the cost of the primer and powder. Once fired cases are awesome.

2) load the Lehigh projectiles into new cases. Youll end up with twice the ammo.

3) sell the loaded ammo and buy what you need.

Just sayin. Loading ammo is time and effort. What your planning to do seems to me like more work than necessary.

My worry is who knows what the powder is in the loaded ammo. Working up a load with unknown powder sounds like more work that what a pound of known and appropriate powder will cost.