Diminished aiming skills

[flashotter]

Does using a laser sight lessen one's proficiency for "aiming" a gun with iron sights?
I'm thinking of getting an optic for my G-21 but I kinda think it's a lazy way of aiming. Follow the dot instead of having to actually line up the sights. I understand the advantage of laser is primarily target acquisition time.

[kcheung2]

For pistols, there is a red dot sight, which fits atop the slide near the rear sight (or replaces it), and it is a projection onto a screen. People use that to aim. Then there is a laser, which is mounted on the pic rails on the front, below the barrel, which projects a beam. People use that to pretend they're in a movie.

Which product are you talking about?

[The Hamsterball]

Originally Posted by kcheung2

For pistols, there is a red dot sight, which fits atop the slide near the rear sight (or replaces it), and it is a projection onto a screen. People use that to aim. Then there is a laser, which is mounted on the pic rails on the front, below the barrel, which projects a beam. People use that to pretend they're in a movie.

Which product are you talking about?

Ehh.. that is correct.
Red Dot/Green Dot optic sights do not project a laser at all.
The dot is invisible to the area of the target, where there is only a dot in the lens area of the optic.

[Mute]

What I've find happens quite often with shooters who uses lasers, is they wind up chasing the dot and trying to remove all the micro movements that the body naturally causes and it actually hurts their aiming more than using irons. In turn it also affects their effectiveness with iron sights because they've picked up those bad habits and it carries over. Shooting is a diminishing skill. The less you practice the more it degrades. If you don't practice certain parts of that skillset, such as aiming with irons, you'll find it will be less effective when you try to use that skill.

[flashotter]

That's what I'm talking about, lining up front and rear sights on the target quickly, an important skill.

[rodralig]

Originally Posted by flashotter

think it's a lazy more efficient way of aiming.

FIFY



_

[Djantlive]

Why not shoot both red dot and iron sight?

I definitely shoot better with a red dot. I think at 15-25 yd on a pistol, it beats iron sight at the range.

For ccw, I prefer to minimize any uncertainty such as fail or dirty red dot or dealing with suppressor height sights. I actually think iron sights is just as fast as red dot, perhaps faster. Either way, close-encounter doesn’t require tight groups.

[flashotter]

Yes true I was practicing pulling gun up from my hip and firing as quickly as I could acquire a shot at center mass to simulate a real world situation. That's when I started thinking about getting an optic and that led me to my question... I've had laser a dot sight and didn't like the "dancing" from my hand shaking. But maybe a red dot sight would be nice.

[Carcassonne]

As far as I know, all the top competition shooters use red/green dot holo sights.

.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

It's not a substitute for having solid fundamentals and presentation down. If you have an issue where you cannot traditionally grip a gun or "present" when aiming, a laser might be of help. Short of that, it's beneficial for weird shooting positions.

[Munny$hot]

Originally Posted by flashotter

Does using a laser sight lessen one's proficiency for "aiming" a gun with iron sights?
I'm thinking of getting an optic for my G-21 but I kinda think it's a lazy way of aiming. Follow the dot instead of having to actually line up the sights. I understand the advantage of laser is primarily target acquisition time.

IMHO using a RDS you must increase your proficiency to aim due to the learning curb of using a red dot. Problems people incur are natural point of aim, gripping the gun, going to fast trying to acquire the dot, and not dedicating enough time to continually train with a RDS. If you have diminishing eye sight, trying to see iron sights through a RDS window (makes images look dim through the glass) may be challenging to non existent depending on your vision and how much light is required to see darker images.

[sitruc]

7/10 handguns I have now have red dots. I established my shooting knowledge using Glocks with irons. I have no trouble switching back and forth, but I think that is because I learned how to properly align irons first. If you dedicate the time to it, I believe shooting with a red dot raises the performance ceiling for every shooter.

I've heard sage dynamics explain that it changes the way you process your rear sight acquisition, front sight acquisition, and target acquisition. Red dots allow you to shift your focus to the target instead of your front sight, which if it does not make you faster, allows you to place more accurate shots more consistently.

[TKM]

For pure entertainment value nothing compares to shooting in the lane next to a goober with a laser.

It's like shooting with a celebrity.

Michael J. Fox to be specific.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Originally Posted by flashotter

Does using a laser sight lessen one's proficiency for "aiming" a gun with iron sights?
I'm thinking of getting an optic for my G-21 but I kinda think it's a lazy way of aiming. Follow the dot instead of having to actually line up the sights. I understand the advantage of laser is primarily target acquisition time.

It all depends on if you want to hit the target or follow some obscure ruling on your technique.

If the gun/Laser is sighted in correctly, you put the laser on the target and let fly. Your gun handling makes no difference. You can shoot over your head or behind your back with the same results.

If the idea is to hit the target then the easiest way is the best way.

They asked me why I didn't like Glocks when I started at Front Sight in 2005?

I said I had shot one and they were really too easy to hit with. I was greeted with puzzled looks which said more to me than anything else. I deduced that I was, in fact, a dumbass?

I traded in my CZ40P De-Cocker that I couldn't run for Ship because it was too complicated, for a G35 and learned how to shoot.

Randy

[Peahi2]

I love iron sights and dot optics...with my degrading eyes though, the irons are getting harder and harder to use...so sad. Using dots is not lazy...it's just a different focus. I feel like red dot shooting can improve your overall shooting, as you become more aware of how much your gun jumps around during your trigger pull...and start to become aware of your grip.

[19K]

I have a viridian laser on my 229. You absolutely 100% still need to have your fundamentals down. Trigger squeeze, breathing, proper grip, etc.

It made my follow up shots a lot faster than compared to using the iron sights. Sight alignment isn’t necessary if you have the fundamentals down. I feel that most people who have and use lasers (unsuccessfully) do so because they think that alone will make them a better shot.