Calguns.net  

Home My iTrader Join the NRA Donate to CGSSA Sponsors CGN Google Search
CA Semiauto Ban(AW)ID Flowchart CA Handgun Ban ID Flowchart CA Shotgun Ban ID Flowchart
Go Back   Calguns.net > FIREARMS DISCUSSIONS > Rimfire Firearms
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Rimfire Firearms .22, .17 and other Rimfire Handguns and Rifles

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-20-2023, 7:02 PM
The Hamsterball The Hamsterball is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 27
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 22LR Rifle Review and Guide

Hello Guys,

I have been meaning to write up a guide for this rifle, Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 with 22 LR ammo.

However, haven't gotten a chance because I wanted to get the rifle working perfectly without failures first.
Now's the time.

So here is what I have on mine:
- Volquartsen Exact Edge Extractor
- Sling from Turners Outdoorsman (M-LOK)
- S&W MP-100 Red Dot Equipped from Factory
- SOUFORCE Flip-Up Iron Sights (Amazon)


Volquartsen Exact Edge Extractor
First thing you should, and must do.
Install Volquartsen Exact Edge Extractor.

If you fire the rifle, it may fail with certain types of ammo.
I tried Aguila Super Extra 40 Grain.
(Do not use this ammo.
It causes the gun to jam occasionally, and gets it really dirty.)

You will have to clean every 200 rounds with Aguila ammo.
With the exact edge extractor it is better, but not perfect.

If you use Federal ammo or CCI Mini Mags (I've heard good things about Federal ammo), you may see some failure.
With the exact edge extractor you will have zero failures for up to 1,000 - 3,000 rounds without cleaning in between.

This is what those out-of-state guys with better ammo in their states have said.
It's probably because they have better ammo there.

For California, my choice is CCI Mini Mags 22 LR.
(Do not use CCI Stingers, S&W says it will cause damage your rifle in a bulletin).

I have not tried Federal ammo. Heard good things.
Reason I use CCI Mini Mags is because I also own a Walther P22, which loves mini mags (it is more economical to cycle the same ammo through my only two firearms).

(Unfortunately somebody already created a thread on P22, which eliminated my ability to create a similar thread for my Walther P22, which I also got to work fine)

If you have failures at all with CCI Ammo, do not send the rifle back to S&W.
Inspect the Extractor.
Try installing this $25 Volquartsen piece.
You might save yourself the trouble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiKCxSRrV2Y

[B]SOUFORCE Iron Sights:[B]
- Now, why would you want iron sights in ADDITION to a red dot sight?
#1
Well this is what happened to me.
I fully cleaned, lubed, serviced my rifle before taking it to the range.
When I popped off the red dot covers, they were stained with bore cleaner on the lenses.
In an emergency I had to use a hand wipe to clean them and dry the lenses off with a hoodie.
(I did go home and use lens cleaner to make them spotless when I got a chance).

#2 If you forget to turn off your red dot, which I frequently do sometimes coming back home from the range (I always turn it off after I'm safe at home since you can't really take the rifle out anywhere else).
Battery might die.

WHERE DO YOU INSTALL THE FLIP UP SIGHTS IF RED DOT IS AGAINST THE CHAMBER?!

Okay okay. This may seem a little confusing.
Whether you have two pens end to end stacked on top of each other, or halfway next to each other with one one the left and one on the right.
Both cases, there is still a straight line end to end.
Do you want to create some space for your sights? Sure

I installed my rear sight right up against the red dot, so as to not block the red dot sight cover which pops off.
The front sight I put right at the end of the barrel towards the front.
Both are still on the part that disassembles at the end so you can still disassemble it without uninstalling the sights.
(See pictures for reference).

Now you might think: "WHY NOT MBUS?" "WHY DID YOU GET AMAZON SIGHTS?"
Honestly, MBUS costs so much money and it's plastic (wait are they also iron versions? dunno).

I don't like MBUS because of the shape and lack of reference with the red dot.
(See images).
I prefer the SOUFORCE because it's easy to hit the paper target circle spot on at 10 meters. It is a little difficult at 25 meters, but that's what the red dot is for.

(Please reference paper target shots. All target shots tonight were with SOUFORCE sights.
Top right is at 25 meters for 10 rounds.
Kind of difficult with a large circle to hit at 25 meters.
Rest of top right is 10 meters, spot on.

Top left, bottom left, and bottom right are at 10 meters while either sitting or standing. Mostly standing. Spot on.)

The sling? Is it really necessary?
No, it's not.
But I plan on going to Piru Precision Rifle Matches pretty soon. It just makes it convenient to maneuver around the course if you got an empty unloaded rifle to carry in between target sessions.
Plus it's an M-LOK accessory, so it pops off with the push of a button.
Big thanks to Turners Outdoorsman for a nice sling.

You call that a real rifle? Why not 5.56?
Oh yeah? Really?
Here's what are the issues with 5.56 rifles.
They overheat after firing too many rounds too fast.
You need to let them cool.

$1/round vs $120/1,000 rounds.
If you're like me, you're cheap.
Would you spend $1,000 or $800 for 1,000 rounds of experience?
I wouldn't.
I spent $120 for 1,000 rounds and a few times in the beginning, I bought Aguila 250 pack for $17.
I have put probably 1,000 rounds through the rifle already, and it will now hold for 750 rounds at least before I have to clean it again.

Sure, 5.56's are nice. But c'mon. If you're just trying to get some practice, 22 LR is much more cost-effective.
This rifle is also based on an AR-15. Similar features.

Reliability
I've already explained the reliability.
Follow this guide, and yours will be plenty reliable.

Best part. ACCESSORIES!!!
With the exception of the red dot, maybe the sling, and possibly the co-witness sights, certain parts on 5.56's are illegal in California.

PISTOL GRIP.
I can accessorize this 22 LR rifle as much as legally possible.
It has features you can only dream of in California on a 5.56 rifle.
DETACHABLE MAG WITH PISTOL GRIP
M-LOK!!
ADJUSTABLE STOCK

That's all I gotta say.
Now you may say, still 5.56 is better.
Sure, people have opinions.
But I have had much more fun with this 22 LR than I would a 5.56.
To each their own.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...usp=share_link
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-20-2023, 7:54 PM
The Hamsterball The Hamsterball is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 27
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishootforblood View Post
That’s awesome. You might consider moving the rear sight to the rear of the receiver, and move the red dot to the forward end of the receiver (but not on the hand guard). The front sight is perfect. Just a suggestion.
Hey.
Thanks for the suggestion.

I thought about that too. From some articles I read it said to do that.
Also, just an FYI, the very center target circle is my Walther P22 at 10 meters (and 10 rounds at 5 meters).

All those random outlier rounds are from the pistol at 10 meters.
I was practicing for 25 meter 5 shot bursts pistol competitions.


I was questioning whether or not to put the front sight in front of the red dot.
But I prefer looking through the sights through the lens of the red dot.

The picture is not that great. But if you were to turn on the red dot and look through the sights at 25 meters, the red dot laser is exactly on the center of the sight arrows.

Also, tonight I had tested without red dot to make sure the sights are zero'd out.
So shooting at 25 meters with the sights is very difficult compared to with the red dot circle inside the sights.

My theory, and reasoning for putting the sights after the red dot was because these are simply being used as backup 'co-witness' sights.

Actually the backup sights are most accurate at 10 meters because of the size of the circle.

When firing at 25 meters, the red dot is rather what should be used.
Or 50, 75, and 100 meters which I can adjust with the click of an adjustment knob.

I want the sights just to be used as backups, and would rather have the optic/red dot as primary for long range and 25 meters, and the sights at 10 meters in case of an emergency.

Thank you for the suggestion though.
This set up actually fits what I was looking for, but for someone who would rather rely on the sights, I can understand putting the front in front of the optics.

However, I do agree that I have seen the front sight in front of the optic/red dot before on some articles.

As a disclaimer, this is all just for accuracy theory in the .000000001% chance the rifle were ever used, which is most likely never to be the case since I am very passive as a human.

For now, it is just convenient for me when going to the range to easily use the red dot at 25 meter target range on paper.
And when I feel bored of 25 meters, and moving the paper target to 10 meters, just using the backup sights.

This is because the red dot actually also fails at 10 meters because there are only 4 adjustments (25, 50, 75, and 100 meters).
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-20-2023, 10:00 PM
stormvet's Avatar
stormvet stormvet is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Amongst the Ocotillos
Posts: 6,313
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

Nice detailed write up, I’ve had mine for a couple months now. Right at around 2000 rounds fired with it and have had zero functioning problems.
List of ammo I’ve used.
Remington Golden Bullets
Remington Thunderbolts
Federal Automatch
Federal Blue Box
Federal Red Box
CCI standard
Winchester White box
Winchester super X
Aguila Super
Only the Golden bullets gave me any issues and that was only one time early on, it now runs perfect with them too. I use the stock 25 round mags, never any issue with the Aguila.
Mine came with the MBUS sights, I added a low cost red dot and a BCM gunfighter short front grip that I store an extra battery for the red dot in.
Really happy with it, great shooter and very cost effective.

Your sight set up is well strange to say the least, but if it works for you and your happy with it.

__________________
Im a warmonger baby, I got blood in my eyes and I'm looking at you.

Last edited by stormvet; 01-20-2023 at 10:12 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-20-2023, 10:48 PM
The Hamsterball The Hamsterball is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 27
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormvet View Post
Nice detailed write up, I’ve had mine for a couple months now. Right at around 2000 rounds fired with it and have had zero functioning problems.
List of ammo I’ve used.
Remington Golden Bullets
Remington Thunderbolts
Federal Automatch
Federal Blue Box
Federal Red Box
CCI standard
Winchester White box
Winchester super X
Aguila Super
Only the Golden bullets gave me any issues and that was only one time early on, it now runs perfect with them too. I use the stock 25 round mags, never any issue with the Aguila.
Mine came with the MBUS sights, I added a low cost red dot and a BCM gunfighter short front grip that I store an extra battery for the red dot in.
Really happy with it, great shooter and very cost effective.

Your sight set up is well strange to say the least, but if it works for you and your happy with it.

Ehh.. well.
https://www.pewpewtactical.com/cowitness-sights-guide/

I was using this article for the ideas.

Honestly, I did a lot of research on the sights.
Yep. They are technically overseas sights.
But they're aluminum.
The reviews did say "they don't glow in the dark".
That was the only reason they got poorly reviewed.

I mean, I don't know why I would care about that, other than very dark reasons.

They don't wiggle though. Seem pretty legitimate after install and use.

The red dot came factory installed right against the chamber.
I highly doubt the gun dealer moved it back up against the chamber.

I'm looking at that article again, and I do see that all of the pictures show the rear sight in front of the red dot.
But it doesn't look very clear to me.

I don't know, it might not be appealing to normal users.
I just don't like the sight in front of the red dot.

That is because the lens on the optic distorts the front sight a little, and I don't want to look through a rear sight, through a lens, through a front sight.

I mean it takes 1 minute to change the set up. But there is some distortion in the actual red dot fitting on top of the pin in the front sight.

As long as the lens is clean, you can see both the sight aligned and the red dot on top of the platform.

Now if some bore cleaner seeps into the lens again from cleaning, I guess that's a worry.
But now that I know that happens, I will clean my lens regularly.

Dunno. However, from a math standpoint.
Whether or not the sight is 3 inches in front from the optic, or right behind the optic 3 inches back, the result is still a straight line.

I don't think I will hit 25 meters/yards very easily regardless. Which is what the red dot is for.

Ehh.. weird kind of compulsion I guess.

Oh I don't find the crowd here very mean or I guess rude.
Not at all.

As for the Walther P22. I like it.
I mean. It is more of a sports car of a pistol, that requires qwerky habits.
Mine is the blue color CA version.

What I like best about the Walther P22.
It won't fire if the user that grabs it does not grip it properly.
How do I know?
Only the firing range staff have been able to fire it.
I had a friend who does not know much about firing, try to fire it, with all steps I take to fire it. It just went "Click".

I also tested firing it with one hand.
It's very weird. Like it won't fail at all in one hand. It's possibly from putting 40 rounds of CCI (same ammo) through it.

Also, it doesn't like being fired right after servicing/cleaning/lubrication.
It needs to adjust after a service with a mag before it will fire clean.

Also it does help if you stick your palm on the top slider to cock it before firing, instead of your fingers.

I personally like working on my firearms about 50% as much as actually firing them.
That's why I like the P22.
I mean, I posted on that "P22 any good thread".
Followed M-1911 guy's posts on other forums.

After much research and care and maintenance, it fires properly without failure as long as you use CCI ammo.

Dunno. Glocks were $500+ tax and DROS.
This P22 was $440 out the door.
Cheaper ammo as stated.
More fun to work on and learn about.
It works too.

I find using an M&P 15-22 combined with a P22 to practice is very cost-effective, economical, and fun.

TROUBLESHOOTING
A glock will eventually fail, and what will the average gun owner do?
P22 teaches you how to quickly troubleshoot and get it working again.

But mine usually fires the 20th-250th rounds without failure.
Like what I usually do, I put two-four mags through it at the range and just let it sit around like that locked up.
Weird trick.

But I'm going off in a tangent.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-21-2023, 9:16 AM
redcliff's Avatar
redcliff redcliff is offline
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Shasta County
Posts: 5,652
iTrader: 7 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormvet View Post
Nice detailed write up, I’ve had mine for a couple months now. Right at around 2000 rounds fired with it and have had zero functioning problems.
List of ammo I’ve used.
Remington Golden Bullets
Remington Thunderbolts
Federal Automatch
Federal Blue Box
Federal Red Box
CCI standard
Winchester White box
Winchester super X
Aguila Super
Only the Golden bullets gave me any issues and that was only one time early on, it now runs perfect with them too. I use the stock 25 round mags, never any issue with the Aguila.
Mine came with the MBUS sights, I added a low cost red dot and a BCM gunfighter short front grip that I store an extra battery for the red dot in.
Really happy with it, great shooter and very cost effective.

Your sight set up is well strange to say the least, but if it works for you and your happy with it.

I have an early MP15-22 Magpul equipped version S&W offered, I've not had to do anything to it to get it to run properly, its awesome. I do not use golden bullets in it though; those cause feeding issues in my Colt Ace and conversion units for my 1911 sometimes, i think the coating on the bullet is too thick. I just slapped a Romeo5 on mine and its good to go. I'll keep the Volquartsen extractor in mind if I ever have issues with OEM.
__________________
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
"What we get away with isn't usually the same as what's good for us"
"An extended slide stop is the second most useless part you can put on a 1911"

"While Ruger DA revolvers may be built like a tank, they have the aesthetics of one also,
although I suppose there are a few tanks which I owe an apology to for that remark"
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-21-2023, 11:34 AM
stormvet's Avatar
stormvet stormvet is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Amongst the Ocotillos
Posts: 6,313
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by redcliff View Post
I have an early MP15-22 Magpul equipped version S&W offered, I've not had to do anything to it to get it to run properly, its awesome. I do not use golden bullets in it though; those cause feeding issues in my Colt Ace and conversion units for my 1911 sometimes, i think the coating on the bullet is too thick. I just slapped a Romeo5 on mine and its good to go. I'll keep the Volquartsen extractor in mind if I ever have issues with OEM.
The first time I shot GB’s in it I had an issue but after that it’s run fine with them. But yeah every 22 is different, I had problems with my Ruger MII the other day with Aguila Super. It did not like the wax coating, every other 22 I have loves them.

The M&P 15/22 is just too fun, so easy to dump a value box of 22 with. I have six mags for it, 4 black and 2 tan. Bought the tan ones so I could easily keep track of different ammo loaded in different mags. I would not mind picking up 4 more mags that would let me shoot 250 rounds before I got to reload mags.
__________________
Im a warmonger baby, I got blood in my eyes and I'm looking at you.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-21-2023, 2:46 PM
Teachu2's Avatar
Teachu2 Teachu2 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 800
iTrader: 10 / 100%
Default

I've owned three M&P 15-22s. All three ran reliably with everything I tried in them. All were excellent plinkers, reasonably accurate, and fun to shoot.

None of them were as enjoyable as my 10/22s - which all have Kidd triggers. I don't shoot any of the events that the AR platforms excel at, so they had become safe queens. When the market got hot for them a couple of years ago, they all got sold. I had a dozen or so 10 round shorty magazines, which went to auction and sold for more than new ones.

If I had a need/want for a 22lr AR platform, I'd absolutely buy another M&P.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-21-2023, 4:46 PM
The Hamsterball The Hamsterball is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 27
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teachu2 View Post
I've owned three M&P 15-22s. All three ran reliably with everything I tried in them. All were excellent plinkers, reasonably accurate, and fun to shoot.

None of them were as enjoyable as my 10/22s - which all have Kidd triggers. I don't shoot any of the events that the AR platforms excel at, so they had become safe queens. When the market got hot for them a couple of years ago, they all got sold. I had a dozen or so 10 round shorty magazines, which went to auction and sold for more than new ones.

If I had a need/want for a 22lr AR platform, I'd absolutely buy another M&P.
S&W also owns Walther Arms.
I'm a die hard fan of S&W and Walther.

They do definitely have good resale value.

I was quoted $460 with everything I put on it as an appraisal.

I paid $500+tax+DROS. So that puts it at about $560.
$25 sights.
$25 extractor.

If I sold through dealer/consignment I would lose maybe $150-200.

That's actually not very bad, plus it would make someone really happy.

I'm noticing actually that these are sold out everywhere in Orange County, California.

I've been checking in Corona, CA area stores. But they don't seem to have stock either.

It looks like the only way to get it is ordering through an online store and shipping to a dealer for processing, and magazine stamping to 10 rounds.

I was just curious as to the depreciation.
Honestly, I am very satisfied.

I don't feel like there's anything else I want to modify on the rifle.
Seems like as long as you use CCI ammo, it will fire and fire and fire.

I think I'm done with my tests/exams/experiments.
Time to clean it, service it, lubricate it and store it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-21-2023, 6:18 PM
operavoice's Avatar
operavoice operavoice is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 521
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

My wife and I have the Performance Center model, with 2-7 Vortex rimfire scopes.
Having a match grade chamber complicates the ammunition situation.
Dirty ammo is REALLY BAD. Clogs up the bolt face.
CCI "Clean Ammo" also bad. Coating thickness is inconsistent and can lead to an out of battery discharge.

Well lubricated ammo works well.
TAC-22 has had zero issues.
Anything by Eley* shoots well, I use Club when I go to matches.
It's more accurate than I am.

*Later edit: anything Round nose by Eley.
__________________
http://www.wildlife-optics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/NRA-Life-Member-Logo.jpg

Last edited by operavoice; 01-22-2023 at 6:34 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-21-2023, 6:45 PM
The Hamsterball The Hamsterball is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 27
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by operavoice View Post
My wife and I have the Performance Center model, with 2-7 Vortex rimfire scopes.
Having a match grade chamber complicates the ammunition situation.
Dirty ammo is REALLY BAD. Clogs up the bolt face.
CCI "Clean Ammo" also bad. Coating thickness is inconsistent and can lead to an out of battery discharge.

Well lubricated ammo works well.
TAC-22 has had zero issues.
Anything by Eley shoots well, I use Club when I go to matches.
It's more accurate than I am.
Geeez.
I just looked that one up.

Different parts, chamber, charging handle, etc.
Must be hard to find good ammo.

I have used only Aguila Super Extra 40 grain and CCI Mini Mags.
I just have the regular one.

I mean, mine will fire just about anything.
But if I use CCI mini mags I rarely have to clean it.

Aguila tends to jam the gun after a while and render it useless after 200 rounds.

You have the mercedes version of the rifle.

Do you think my regular one with mixed co-witness sights and MP-100 red dot will be good enough for the Piru Precision Rifle matches in the future?

I mean, I am assuming it doesn't really matter as long as you have ammo that works without failure and hits something.

I'm not trying to win, just going for fun.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-22-2023, 6:52 AM
operavoice's Avatar
operavoice operavoice is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 521
iTrader: 19 / 100%
Default

Well, think of it this way, high performance cars require high octane gas.

That being said, the Appleseed that I went to, one guy had a base model M&P, it had no problems.
Another guy that sometimes comes to the Sebastopol Rifle and Pistol Club's monthly match also runs a base model without any problems.
It'll do what you want it to do.

I got a good deal on the P.C. models, and wanted the match performance because my wife and I compete monthly. After four matches, and one day of Appleseed training, I went from last place to sitting in the middle of a pack of guys, some with precision bolt guns, who have been doing it for years.
IIRC, my last score was 283 out of 300 (10 rounds x 3 shooting positions)
__________________
http://www.wildlife-optics.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/NRA-Life-Member-Logo.jpg
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-22-2023, 7:32 AM
stormvet's Avatar
stormvet stormvet is online now
Calguns Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Amongst the Ocotillos
Posts: 6,313
iTrader: 23 / 100%
Default

Very true to get the added performance of a match gun, match ammo is needed to really see the difference.

I have a semi-custom 10/22 with a match barrel and receiver, shooting regular bulk ammo through it gives no greater accuracy then my stock Ruger American 22lr.
__________________
Im a warmonger baby, I got blood in my eyes and I'm looking at you.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-22-2023, 6:57 PM
The Hamsterball The Hamsterball is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Posts: 27
iTrader: 0 / 0%
Default

That's very interesting.

I don't think I am a professional competition shooter or anywhere at that level.

Possibly when I get a good job one day I will have a separate competition rifle to use one day for events.

Right now, I'm going to just use my poor man's Ferrari to have fun.

Hope you guys liked the write-up.
I was attempting to find a writing dump somewhere that isn't social media, so this worked out perfectly.

Enjoy your M&P 15-22's!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 4:14 PM.




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Proudly hosted by GeoVario the Premier 2A host.
Calguns.net, the 'Calguns' name and all associated variants and logos are ® Trademark and © Copyright 2002-2021, Calguns.net an Incorporated Company All Rights Reserved.
All opinions, statements and remarks made by Calguns.net on this web site and elsewhere are solely attributable to Calguns.net.



Seams2SewBySusy