Cap n ball revolver, 1851 Piettra 44 cal replica, what cast?

[Geofois]

Just got it for Christmas. I was thinking 44 cal was normally .429" but looks like it is .454". I read .451" will work and even .457" but might be tight. What molds would make for a good conical? Someone is selling a few molds that are probably for 45 cal since 2 of them are .452" 6 CAV 452-190-SWC, DC 452-255-RF. One is .456" DC C456-220-1R. Is 220g and 255g too heavy? The 190g one is SWC so maybe not the right bullet? Is there an ideal bullet mold someone recommends aside from a round ball? Thanks

[scottb42]

Metallic cartridge basics (like 44 cal = .429") don't apply so well to cap and ball firearms, or even muzzleloaders in general.

My Uberti model 1860 Army replica is perfectly happy with .454" round balls. I don't own a Pietta but if I did I'd be skeptical of starting with .451", concerned they'd be too loose. .457" would probably work too but might be harder to load since you'd be shaving off a thicker ring of lead when seating them.

If you're new to cap and ball revolvers then I'd suggest starting with round balls, save the conicals for after you have a bit of experience. I've heard commentary that the loading ports and loading levers of Piettas aren't well suited for conicals, but again I don't own one so I can't make a first hand report.

Eras Gone (https://erasgonebullets.webstarts.com/) designs historically correct bullet molds for Civil War vintage antiques and replicas. The molds themselves are manufactured by Lee exclusively for Eras Gone, so you won't find them at Midway or wherever. The usual starter recommendation for a .44 cap and ball revolver is the Johnston & Dow mold, but they have other flavors if you care to experiment. https://erasgonebullets.webstarts.co.../-44-johnston-

If you're casting for a cap and ball revolver, whether round ball or conical, use pure lead.

[Geofois]

Ok thank you. That sounds good. I'll try to get some balls or a mold. I've never cast before but I bought the Lyman hot pot and lots of lead since I just got a Springfield 1864.

My other issue I just discovered it No11 caps from Dixie don't fit the nipples. Maybe Dixies' are too small so not actual No11 sized. Maybe I can use something to wedge the caps open a little more. I see replacement Pietta nipples for $10 but I wonder if they'll have the same issue. Maybe I can load the caps on if I take the cylinder off so can push better?

[scottb42]

I'm only an occasional cap and ball revolver shooter so I don't bother casting round balls. Instead I just grabbed a couple boxes of pre-made round balls from Speer and Hornady and called it good. They offer many sizes (including .454" and .457") and both are available from Midway at the time of this writing.

If you do want to get into conicals then casting is probably in your future.

The cap size issue is one of the more frustrating parts of this process. CCI #11 seem to be the easiest to find, but also seem to adhere to the "one size fits none" philosophy. In my limited experience, there is no universal standard for #10 or #11 caps, all manufacturers seem to vary. The field expedient solution for loose fitting caps is to pinch them (basically turning the open ends into ovals) before putting them on the nipples. They tend to fall off more easily even when pinched, and there is some thought that this can lead to chain fires. Since CCI #11 seem to be most common in my area, I went ahead and purchased a set of replacement nipples that are sized specifically for them. You can order SliXshot nipples straight from the manufacturer (https://www.slixprings.com/proddetai...Powder-Nipples) or find other types from Track of the Wolf (https://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/807/1).

Hope this is helpful. I'm certainly no expert with muzzleloaders of any stripe, but I still have fun with them.

[M76]

I buy the hornady boxes of .451 balls, they work well. The #11's (Pietta 1858 .44)
require "pinching" to fit. I also use the eraser end of a #2 pencil to push caps down.

Cheers!

[Nra-Life-Member]

Enjoy the gift!

[CSACANNONEER]

I'd try .451 ROUNDBALLS first. Either bum a few or buy a box. Wait until you know the size that works best in YOUR gun before buying molds. Also, I'd stick to roundballs since, that's what they were originally designed for. If you have a roundball barrel, it will be a slow twist and probably won't stabilize conicals well. I'd also be skeptical of the added weight of conicals.

[kendog4570]

Originally Posted by M76

.... I also use the eraser end of a #2 pencil to push caps down.

Cheers!

That's a great tip. If lightning strikes and the thing goes off while pushing the cap on with your thumb, say goodbye to the tip of it.

[Geofois]

I think the factory or someone hammered the wedge in. I couldn't get it out to save my life then found instructions for stuck wedges from a discussion but I broke the spring pin. Not a big deal $10 on ebay but the metal on the barrel seems raised as if they forced it on. Does this look normal on the left side of the slot? When I try to put it back together it doesn't want to go on so I'll have to tap it on also? The scratches were already there so someone was pounding on that side also with something that scratched the surface

[prob]

No, that’s not normal. You shouldn’t have to beat on the wedges to remove them, and by the same token, you don’t have to pound them in so tight that it’s difficult to remove them.

[Geofois]

I thought so. Someone was an idiot. I've since been told at the factory in Italy some workers would hammer them on, not sure this is the case. They said I need to use a stone on the wedge to get it to slide in and just clip on. I ordered another wedge and will work it till it is a snug fit but not pounding. Maybe a light tap with a rubber mallet.

[NapalmCheese]

Roundball tends to be more accurate.

I'm a .36 caliber shooter, so can't say for the .44s. My Pietta in .36 uses .375 balls, my Uberti in .36 uses .380.

As for the wedge you are correct in that it should just clip on the other side. From the factory I could remove my Pietta wedge with my fingers, the Uberti (really it's a Taylors worked by Long Hunter) takes a little more effort, but can still be done with my fingers.

As for nipples and caps, I just use Slix and get Remington #10s. I find that CC #11s fit on the Slix nipples fine, but don't come off as well and cause cap jams. My buddy shoots a Pietta with the stock nipples and it's the same deal for him, except that the #11 CCI caps sometimes don't fully seat and so cause a misfire. A dowel can be used to seat them. If you use your thumb to seat them you can have a bad day. You won't blow the tip of your thumb off, but you'll "raise a blister" according to Elmer Keith; or split the tip of your thumb according to pictures from the internet.

[moleculo]

I had and recently sold a Pietta 1851 Navy in .44. .451 ball worked great.

[ojisan]

I'm not a BP guy, but just measure the chamber mouths first?
Then go a few thousands larger for a snug fit?

[M1NM]

Start with balls. Measure the bore of the cylinder (if you don't have the manual that states the size). Start 10 thousandths too big. You want to shave a little lead off when you load. This helps seal the cylinder and dislodging of balls under recoil. Once you find the happy spot buy a mold.

If you can't find caps you can make your own - https://22lrreloader.com/collections...sion-cap-maker

[Geofois]

I ordered some .454" balls. Lots of posts of people with Pietta 1851 that said works great so hopefully it's fine. I'll check that link for making caps. That would be awesome to do, thank you. I do have 800 No11 caps but I think they run small so probably #10. I've read they can vary. These are from Dixie and probably old. They fit my brother's Uberti but not my Pietta. My nipples look dry fired a lot so probably flattened. I ordered some new nipples so I'll see if they fit.

[MajorSideburns]

.454 should fit your Pietta perfectly. The .451's work but just barely in my Piettas. I personally like a bit more margin for error to account for the odd undersized ball or manufacturing variations in each of your cylinder chambers. You want a nice full ring of lead to shave off when you load each chamber to be sure you are getting the tightest fit possible. Undersized balls are where most of the issues from chainfire come from. I think the stock size of the Pietta nipples is #10. Your #11 caps will be a bit larger and might be a bit loose but will still work if you pinch them a bit. There is a bit of fit difference between the brands even in the same size # cap. I think the CCI's run a bit smaller than the comparable Remington but I might have that backwards. If you can find both brands, try each one to see which fits your gun best. I think part of the fit variation has to do with the angle of taper from the nipples or depth of the caps or a combination of those variables.

[Geofois]

Thank you,
I ordered .454 balls and my No11 Dixie caps seem to fit the nipples I ordered. One set of nipples said they fit 10 and 11 so maybe they are tappered to try to fit both. My Dixies run small when I measured.