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Curio & Relic/Black Powder Curio & Relics and Black Powder Firearms, Old School shooting fun!

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  #1  
Old 12-12-2022, 1:42 PM
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Geofois Geofois is offline
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Default Load data for .58 Cal Pyrodex FFG FFFG

Hey guys,
Is there anything as in depth for black powder rifles as there is on the Hodgdon site? I just picked up an 1864 Springfield .58 Cal. I have a few different Minies of different weights, 550, 525, 450, 300 and I think some balls. I was given the mold for the 300g. I'm told it shoots that excellent with 35g of FFG black powder. I'm a reloader but since there isn't a case I imagine you can load much lower since you won't have a case overly empty. I have Pyrodex RS the FFG and P the FFFG equivalent.
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Old 12-12-2022, 3:58 PM
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35g is light, but might make a nice plinker load with the 300g Minie.

What was the original load? The same as the 1861 Springfield loads?

Also, remember BP to Pyrodex is volumetric; not by actual grains.
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  #3  
Old 12-12-2022, 4:18 PM
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When I googled I saw a 50 and 60g load for 315 conical bullets. It said 690 and 820fps for a 58 cal. It didn't say the rifle or barrel length. It is a pdf from some load data website. My brother uses 60g of FFG Pyrodex and gets 1000fps for I think a 525 grain Minie out of his 1841 Kentucky Rifle .58 Cal. The data seems too slow. I have a chonograph so I'll check.

Thanks for reminding me. I was reading about using volume. I can pre-measure some and use some brass cases, cork them up, and test out some loads. At 50 yards we probably don't need full power loads.

I'll ask him again but maybe he used 35g of FFFg. I remember thinking he was using more power in a smaller volume. Maybe with such a light minie he was able to get away with that powder.

Found it he used 35g of FFFg with the 300g Minie. I'll just use the normal load published and start low I suppose.

Last edited by Geofois; 12-12-2022 at 4:29 PM..
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Old 12-12-2022, 5:03 PM
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Watched these two videos, one comparing black powder FFG vs FFFG and one comparing Pyridex RS/FFG vs P/FFFG and both were almost identical velocities with the same grain load. I'm assuming they were volume measured but tell me if that's wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0PCrlV7QzE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afocFX7CHIE
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Old 12-12-2022, 5:52 PM
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black powder is black powder- it basically all weighs the same.

most use a brass powder measure like this-

https://www.amazon.com/Muzzle-Loader...0899387&sr=8-1

these are marked with close enough estimates of grain weight using volume.

you'd be wasting your time to actually weigh every charge. black is much more forgiving than smokeless.
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Old 12-12-2022, 5:58 PM
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I was saying I was going to pre measure. I never said I'd weigh them. I was thinking of using my brass measuring thingy and pre measure a few so I don't have to pour from the big brass thingy into the smaller brass thingy then into my barrel. I can just grab a 308 case pop the cork and dump it in. I have some plastic and other things that I got that seem to be meant for that I imagine for someone hunting. I got a box of stuff that I was going through and figured brass cases would work fine for pre measured loads.

Yes I see have have two of those things in the link. I got 3 lbs of RS and 1lb of P.
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Old 12-13-2022, 3:22 AM
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I’ve always used 60 grains of powder for my 58 caliber Zouave.

If it’s original, maybe go light at like 50-55
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Old 12-19-2022, 1:12 AM
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60 grs of "rifle powder" (there was no granulation rating back then) was the standard service load. In my original '63 rifle-musket, when I usta' shoot in competitions, I shot a 520 gr minie on top of 50 grs 2F black out to 100 yds. Never liked Pyro or triple 7.
I can't post pictures here as I don't use a photo storage site so I can't show you what we used for our quick loads but we used plastic "cap plugs" to hold the powder and bullet together. Pull the bullet with your teeth, pour the powder, drop the cap plug on the deck, then seat/ram the bullet home. In my prime, I could get off 3 well-aimed shots per minute.
Jon

Last edited by musketjon; 12-19-2022 at 1:22 AM..
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Old 12-21-2022, 10:47 AM
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Actually I guess the powder for Union army in 1860 was between 1.5 fG and 2fG and 60 grains according to Capandball. (I thought it was 70, but it's actually 60).
3:00"

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Old 12-21-2022, 11:42 AM
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Thanks Darto,

I'm gonna do like a couple people said and do 50g for the 500g minies since it's just paper punching. I have a mold to make 300g minies that I'm told shoot out of the rifle great so as soon as I figure out molding I'll probably mainly use those. My brother is getting 980-1020fps with 60g of pyrodex so maybe he should lower that to get closer to the 920fps that the video said was what they were getting in the 1850s.
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  #11  
Old 12-24-2022, 7:53 AM
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If you want to know about the original charges and bullets, check this guy out. He has written some books about them and runs a shop in Gettysburg selling historically accurate supplies.

https://www.facebook.com/PaperCartridges
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  #12  
Old 12-25-2022, 8:52 AM
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I used the volume equivant in Pyrodex RS of 2F blackpowder of 55 gr with a 480 gr minie type ball. I was surprised to learn last winter that pyrodex doesn't ignite consistantly below 40F. All of my previous shooting had been in warmer temps.
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Old 12-25-2022, 10:24 AM
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I was able to get to the range yesterday for 40 min =(. They didn't post they were closing early. I tried 35g with the 300g bullet that the seller recommended but I think the velocity was too slow. I wasn't hitting the target. I was using Pyrodex which should have been a little faster but now that I think of it I think he used FFFG black powder. 40g seemed to hit fine. I didn't get a chance to shoot all the Minies and compare. The 460g with 50g hit fine also.
Pyrodex FFG
300g Minie 35g 859 700 769 759
40g 922
50g 1110
460g Minie 50g 1001, try 45g for low 900s
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Old 01-04-2023, 9:46 AM
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Try the Blackpowder Handbook or similar intro that has loads & velocity data.

A good rule of thumb is that your starting load is the caliber in grains. So your .58 would have a starting load of around 58 grains. 2F or 3F won't matter much, as long as its consistent. I make homemade powder that is more akin to 4F in speed and it works just fine. It causes minor differences in POI and accuracy but they all work roughly the same -- fine for plinking. I just sight in with commercial 2F and only use that when hunting with the rifles.

Double the starting load would be about where you'd probably want to top out so 116 grains would be on the high end but still safe. The heavier the bullet, the more pressures you're going to build with the same powder charge. But BP is very forgiving -- far more so than smokeless. Your shoulder will probably give out long before the barrel will.
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Old 01-04-2023, 10:33 AM
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Thank you CVShooter,

I got this link from someone. It's for cap and ball but in case anyone wants to check out the info. Lot's of load data from different companies. They're all over the place but as you said black powder is forgiving.

https://capandballrevolvers.com/reso...sqp0NZK7rWIsUE

Last edited by Geofois; 01-04-2023 at 10:37 AM..
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