C&R + COE "Beating the Dead-Horse"...

[steelonthefly]

Bear with me here CG'ers...but here it goes...



I am getting prepared to make my 1st ever "Cash & Carry" purchase today, in state, and suddenly having doubts after yesterday, when a REPUTABLE LGS Owner tells me that, I still need to PPT/Dros a C&R Long Gun EVEN with my credentials (A current and valid 03FFL and COE to be CRYSTAL CLEAR and REDUNDANT)...


REALLY???????????!!!!!!!!!!!



...My response, "all I am required to do is enter my new purchase into CRIS in order to satisfy my CA obligations."



SERIOUSLY?!?! Is this true?? Has Something changed AGAIN in California?


I have reviewed thread after thread (many outdated), current codes (I think because CADOJ has their head UTA so far I can't be sure), but MOSTLY CA PC 27966.



I feel 95% certain I can go ahead and purchase my 1st Russian SKS still in the Cosmo...but looking for that last 5% of certainty...



Someone please...

[vino68]

No, it has not changed. But I am coming across this issue more and more with consignments. Seems DOJ is pushing back for there to be proof of the firearm actually being C&R. Like an original receipt with a date stamp or a well known discontinued firearm from over 50 years.
If the firearm is advertised as C&R, it should not be a problem. Also if transfer from out of state and also advertised as C&R.

[Pocket Rocket]

There's going to be some much smarter people than myself who will chime in, but you may wish to refer to the BOF 961 form from the CA DOJ:

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...ms/bof_961.pdf

Page 2 states the following:

"Collector In-State Acquisition of Curio or Relic Long Gun Report Requirements

Federally licensed collectors (FFL type 03) in California who have a current COE may acquire curio or relic long guns from non-licensees
without completing the transfer through a licensed firearms dealer only if he/she completes and submits this report to the California
Department of Justice within thirty (30) days of taking possession of the long gun. Your failure to comply with this reporting
requirement could result in criminal prosecution. (Pen. Code, §§ 27590 & 27966)."

This form is dated January 2020, and I believe is the current version. I don't know if there is a ban on SKS's by make, or model, specific to a previous Assault Weapon Ban. Be sure to also include the needed information into your bound book, and let the Seller know what you need.

As always, none of the above is legal advice. Even when you try your best to understand all of California's gun laws you find yourself having a circular debate.

[CartridgeCalls]

Tagged.

Can the purchase in California be shipped to a CA FFL03 without PPT and direct or does it have to be FTF?

[SkyHawk]

Ask him why there is a form on CFARS/CRIS for reporting the in-state acquisition of a C&R long gun

[SkyHawk]

CA PC27966 is still the law

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=27966.

ARTICLE 6. Exceptions to the Requirement of Using a Dealer for a Private Party Firearms Transaction [27850 - 27970] ( Article 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

27966.
If all of the following requirements are satisfied, Section 27545 shall not apply to the sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm:
(a) The firearm is not a handgun.
(b) The firearm is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, or its successor.
(c) The person receiving the firearm has a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to Section 26710.
(d) The person receiving the firearm is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued thereto.
(e) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person to whom it is transferred shall forward by prepaid mail, or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this section shall be provided to them by the department.

Send that to the reputable FFL so he can become even more reputable

[steelonthefly]

Originally Posted by CartridgeCalls

Tagged.

Can the purchase in California be shipped to a CA FFL03 without PPT and direct or does it have to be FTF?

Survey says??... Anyone???


Thanks for all of the Quick Responses to my original question gentleman!!


Now, lets give CartridgeCalls some help...

[sbo80]

Originally Posted by CartridgeCalls

Tagged.

Can the purchase in California be shipped to a CA FFL03 without PPT and direct or does it have to be FTF?

There's nothing in the Penal Code that says it can't be shipped. 27545 says "if neither person is a dealer, you have to use a dealer, with all the rules that go with it (including the face-to-face PPT rules)". 27966 says "unless the C&R thing, no dealer required". This kind of transfer is exempt from 27545, and therefore all the related rules for 27545 transfers. It has its own rule - fill out the form within 30 days. Nothing mentioned about face-to-face required, or shipping excluded.

[G-forceJunkie]

Yes, it could be shipped to any 01 FFL. It wont be a PPT, it will just be a regular dealer sale because the dealer has to log the gun into his inventory, then sell it to you. He can charge anything he wants for this. You still have to DROS it, but since you have your 03/ coe you dont fill out a 4473 and no 10 day wait.

But if it is a C&R long gun from a California seller, to a California 03/coe holder, he can ship it direct to you. Be sure to get a copy of his ID for your log book and cfars form. The issue nowday would be to find a willing average gun owner willing to ship a gun to a strainger...they understand the laws even less than us so It would be easy to understand if they are hesitent.

Originally Posted by steelonthefly

Survey says??... Anyone???


Thanks for all of the Quick Responses to my original question gentleman!!


Now, lets give CartridgeCalls some help...

[Dirk Tungsten]

Originally Posted by steelonthefly

Bear with me here CG'ers...but here it goes...



I am getting prepared to make my 1st ever "Cash & Carry" purchase today, in state, and suddenly having doubts after yesterday, when a REPUTABLE LGS Owner tells me that, I still need to PPT/Dros a C&R Long Gun EVEN with my credentials (A current and valid 03FFL and COE to be CRYSTAL CLEAR and REDUNDANT)...


REALLY???????????!!!!!!!!!!!

Is this cash and carry purchase of a C&R long gun from a dealer's inventory or from a private seller? I ask because the post isn't completely clear, and I wonder if purchasing from an FFL 01, he still has to run the DROS, but the sale remains same day cash and carry.

Maybe someone from the calguns braintrust can answer as to whether or not this makes a difference?

[California_Deplorable]

Originally Posted by Dirk Tungsten

Is this cash and carry purchase of a C&R long gun from a dealer's inventory or from a private seller? I ask because the post isn't completely clear, and I wonder if purchasing from an FFL 01, he still has to run the DROS, but the sale remains same day cash and carry.

Maybe someone from the calguns braintrust can answer as to whether or not this makes a difference?

Good point. I did a "C&R" DROS from a CA dealer's inventory for a C&R longgun. I think thats the norm buying C&Rs from a CA FFL.

It's still perfectly legal to buy a C&R longgun from an individual or other 03FFL holder cash and carry. Then you report it in CFARS/CRIS.

Off topic, but some CA dealers, even ones that sell a lot of C&R guns, refuse to do "C&R" DROS for 03FFL holders. They want everyone to do the 10day DROS.

[BrokerB]

Good reason to stop feeding the beast of Kalifornia. CR is sadly such a mess and dealers dont/cant keep up with the scare tactics of the StasiCADOJ

[steelonthefly]

Originally Posted by Dirk Tungsten

Is this cash and carry purchase of a C&R long gun from a dealer's inventory or from a private seller? I ask because the post isn't completely clear, and I wonder if purchasing from an FFL 01, he still has to run the DROS, but the sale remains same day cash and carry.

Maybe someone from the calguns braintrust can answer as to whether or not this makes a difference?

To be clear(er), I was in the store looking at a completely unrelated Lever Gun when I made the excuse of not buying said lever that day because of my plans to purchase a C&R FTF the following day. That is when the owner was insistent that I would need to DROS my C&R and then tried to explain, if I bought that Lever gun and brought my friend in with the C&R we could combine the DROS and save me $37.19.



It's starting to feel like the fact that the LGS Owner MUST DROS all of the consignment C&R's in store may have "gummed up" our conversation, this combined with his effort to make a sale, may have led to my/our confusion? Maybe? Who knows?

[steelonthefly]

Originally Posted by BrokerB

Good reason to stop feeding the beast of Kalifornia. CR is sadly such a mess and dealers dont/cant keep up with the scare tactics of the StasiCADOJ

At the end of the day, IT SUCKS that I am hesitant to go through with any C&R purchases at this point, and feel I should JUST DROS everything. It's like I cannot just "enjoy" being an 03FFL holder or collector.