Your best thoughts about sighting for 100 yards at a 25 yard range.

[Dirtlaw]

Make it as simple as you can please. 100 yard ranges are difficult to find / use in my area. I'm looking at plan B.

[dousan]

https://www.roscomanufacturing.com/d...sign-up-login/

You’ll still need to confirm at 100 but you should be on paper from the start, which is nice.

You don’t need to sign up, I’m sure there are other ones out there, but you get the idea.

Also if you know your velocity, sight over bore height, etc, a ballistic calculator provides a tremendous amount of info too. Also free and online

Kinetic consulting has sights for zeroing on his website too (mostly for 50 and 25 yards and lasers)

If you’re still in oc, just make a day at Angeles.

[rodralig]

I use a software that simulates zeroing ammo for a particular range at a specific distance, ie., drop. For example, if I need to zero my firearm, say with a new RDS, at 25-yards at 10-yards - I have it print out a target with markings for POA and POI. I then use the included laser boresight to line things up. I then go to the indoor range to verify (my range is only 25-yard long and the owners dont allow a rest). This has been accurate enough that I can shoot silhouette targets with the handgun at 100-yards and out without doing a holdover/under.


This is the same concept of the 10-yard zero for carbines:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-FUsH8jt6E



_

[Dirtlaw]

Originally Posted by dousan

https://www.roscomanufacturing.com/d...sign-up-login/

You’ll still need to confirm at 100 but you should be on paper from the start, which is nice.

You don’t need to sign up, I’m sure there are other ones out there, but you get the idea.

Also if you know your velocity, sight over bore height, etc, a ballistic calculator provides a tremendous amount of info too. Also free and online

Kinetic consulting has sights for zeroing on his website too (mostly for 50 and 25 yards and lasers)

If you’re still in oc, just make a day at Angeles.

Thanks. Thinking about a trip out of OC, but time seems to be creeping along so fast. This is largely a practice run to find out what my weak spots are. 2023 will be spent on addressing those issues.

[Dirtlaw]

All the good advice you guys have given is sincerely appreciated.

[foothillman]

I use this one.
http://gundata.org/ballistic-calculator/

[Divernhunter]

pack up and go to a 100 yard range

[jarhead714]

If it’s for and AR15, take a trip out to Burro Canyon and step off 36 yards. That’s the zero you want.

[dousan]

Originally Posted by jarhead714

If it’s for and AR15, take a trip out to Burro Canyon and step off 36 yards. That’s the zero you want.

Nothing personal, just my thoughts on any zero..

Not necessarily. Height over bore is a real thing. Whatever you choose, know the holds at distance. Not from a YouTube video. Test the stuff.

Bruiser industries on instagram discussing this quite a bit and has a fair amount of examples on good page too.

This site discusses to 50/200
https://unclezo.com/2020/11/25/the-m...yard-zero/amp/

It’s like falling for the 50/200 and expecting it to be true. But using different barrel length , optic height, bullet, and finding out it’s not actually 50/200 when it counts (in most cases a class).

Apps are free and awesome but still need to be confirmed.
Also yes get out of oc to burro or Angeles. It’s more fun.

[kingransom]

You failed to mention what caliber ammunition you're going to be shooting. You can pull up any ballistics chart on the internet and find out what the bullet rise or bullet drop might be between 25 and 100 yards depending on the caliber

[jonnyt16]

Originally Posted by dousan

Nothing personal, just my thoughts on any zero..

Not necessarily. Height over bore is a real thing. Whatever you choose, know the holds at distance. Not from a YouTube video. Test the stuff.

Bruiser industries on instagram discussing this quite a bit and has a fair amount of examples on good page too.

This site discusses to 50/200
https://unclezo.com/2020/11/25/the-m...yard-zero/amp/

It’s like falling for the 50/200 and expecting it to be true. But using different barrel length , optic height, bullet, and finding out it’s not actually 50/200 when it counts (in most cases a class).

Apps are free and awesome but still need to be confirmed.
Also yes get out of oc to burro or Angeles. It’s more fun.

Yeah exactly. I have never sighted in at a different distance than what I want my zero to be. I just wouldn't feel comfortable or confident in that rifle. I'm fortunate now that I live mere minutes away from endless BLM land. But even when I lived in the Bay Area I would make the drive to sight in at my desired zero.

[CSACANNONEER]

I simply use the one shot zero method for the ammunition, the distance, elevation and other conditions that I am shooting that day.

[yakdout]

Check out SBC lite, ballistics app for phone.


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[FNGGlock]

First step is to get the approx velocity of the ammo you are using out of your barrel and the bc of the bullet. Of you can chrono the ammo, or at least search for a real world test or 2 with the barrel length you have and selected ammo.

Measure the actual sight or scope/optic height over bore axis.

Now you use a ballistic app to give you the 25 yd POI for a 100yd zero. It won’t be 100%, but pretty close if you did good homework.

What rifle, caliber and ammo are you looking to zero? Lots of info for common AR setups, but less so for less used calibers and rifles.

[DolphinFan]

I have a ballistics app. Info required for a solution are;
Bullet Weight - on packaging .55 grain
Muzzle Velocity - on packaging 3240fps
Zero range - ring and scope height above bore 1.5"
Sight height - Ring height 1"
LOS Angle - degree up or down your shot will be taken +14 degrees
Ballistic Coefficient G2-G7 - how the bullet shape effects performance G7
(additional info such as wind speed and angle are also available including altitude and other info.

A zero at 36' will give the shooter a;
1/2" below aim @ 25 yards
1/2" above aim @ 50 yards
1 1/2" above aim @ 125 yards highest point in arc
1/3" above aim @ 200 yards
3/4" bellow aim @ 225 yards
2 1/4" below target @ 250 yards

A zero at 25' will give a shooter a;
1/3" below aim @ 25 yards
1/2" above aim @ 50 yards
1 1/2" above aim @ 100 yards highest point in arc
1/2" above aim @ 200 yards
1/2" bellow aim @ 225 yards
2" below target @ 250 yards

[IVC]

The problem with apps is that they take a lot of parameters. If you're off just slightly with a few, the calculation falls apart. It's good to get you on paper, but you have to confirm it.

Between correct sight offset (hard to measure accurately) and BC of the bullet you already have quite a bit wiggle room. Factor in that the speed of the bullet out of *your* rifle might be off, and you have a good ballpark calculations, but not much more. If you now use these calculations to get a group at 10 yards and you're off in how you measure it, who knows where you're going to be at 100 or 200 yards.

Don't get me wrong, it's extremely useful as a starting point, it's just not going to give you what you want - the peace of mind that you know your rifle and that you can take the longer shots confidently. Remember, there is a BIG difference between "I should be 2" high at 100 yards" and "my rifle shoots 5" high at 100 yards." If you're shooting steel, it will be *extremely* frustrating because it will look like you're doing something wrong and missing a third to a half of the shots, when it could very well be that you just don't have the correct data.

[IVC]

But let's also bring this conversation into 21st century.

The traditional "zero distance" is an outdated concept from the iron sights and older hunting scopes with limited adjustability and not good repeatability. These days, with modern scopes, you should have a full DOPE card for your rifle and know exactly how much the ammo you shoot drops so you can dial in the correct distance no matter what you're shooting at. You don't really "zero the rifle," you shoot at various distances and record the settings on the scope for each distance. In a way, instead of thinking of "zeroing the rifle," you think of "where does my rifle shoot at each distance." The scope is not fixed nor limited to any specific distance, you have a function (graph, table, whatever works for you) that tells you where the bullet will be at any distance and to what setting you have to adjust your scope to have POA match POI.

Once you have your DOPE, you can play "tactical game" where you look at your data, look at how much you have to adjust scope at each distance (specific to your rifle and your ammo), then dial on the scope *a* zero that will serve your purpose, usually to have some point blank range that you like. But you still look at your DOPE card and make a note of extremes within your point blank range, so you know that, e.g., the bullet is at its highest (maximum ordinate) at, say, 100 yards. You also look at the ranges where the bullet is below or above POA, so you can quickly add a small adjustment, just to improve on the basic "no holdover aim" and score more consistent hits on that small steel.

And if you don't like the zero you picked, you don't re-zero your scope. You just dial in a different zero on the scope and you're done. The same as if you were to shoot at much larger distance and had to look up the DOPE for that distance.

[yakdout]

Originally Posted by IVC

But let's also bring this conversation into 21st century.

The traditional "zero distance" is an outdated concept from the iron sights and older hunting scopes with limited adjustability and not good repeatability. These days, with modern scopes, you should have a full DOPE card for your rifle and know exactly how much the ammo you shoot drops so you can dial in the correct distance no matter what you're shooting at. You don't really "zero the rifle," you shoot at various distances and record the settings on the scope for each distance. In a way, instead of thinking of "zeroing the rifle," you think of "where does my rifle shoot at each distance." The scope is not fixed nor limited to any specific distance, you have a function (graph, table, whatever works for you) that tells you where the bullet will be at any distance and to what setting you have to adjust your scope to have POA match POI.

Once you have your DOPE, you can play "tactical game" where you look at your data, look at how much you have to adjust scope at each distance (specific to your rifle and your ammo), then dial on the scope *a* zero that will serve your purpose, usually to have some point blank range that you like. But you still look at your DOPE card and make a note of extremes within your point blank range, so you know that, e.g., the bullet is at its highest (maximum ordinate) at, say, 100 yards. You also look at the ranges where the bullet is below or above POA, so you can quickly add a small adjustment, just to improve on the basic "no holdover aim" and score more consistent hits on that small steel.

And if you don't like the zero you picked, you don't re-zero your scope. You just dial in a different zero on the scope and you're done. The same as if you were to shoot at much larger distance and had to look up the DOPE for that distance.

I’m confused when you say you can’t zero the rifle? To me that means you have resettable turrets and when you shoot exactly where you want at 100 yards, you reset your turrets to zero. That will always be your starting point. You can from there dial the mil/Moa accordingly for a longer/shorter shot. Once you take your shot at 22 clicks in elevation and 13 clicks on your windage, you don’t need to remember how many clicks you went. You simply go back to the “zero” on your turrets and that’s your starting point. 100 yards. At least that’s how I understand it.


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[IVC]

Originally Posted by yakdout

I’m confused when you say you can’t zero the rifle? To me that means you have resettable turrets and when you shoot exactly where you want at 100 yards, you reset your turrets to zero. That will always be your starting point. You can from there dial the mil/Moa accordingly for a longer/shorter shot.

Exactly - you dial in the specific distance and *any* distance you choose (or have dialed on the scope) is the distance at which your rifle is now zeroed. It's no longer a single distance from which you use your reticle and ballistic data to guess the correct holdover, you use the actual data for your rifle to set zero for the distance you wish.

In other words, if you dial in 200 yards (that you verified) and reset turrets, you're now zeroed at 200 yards. If you have a target at 235 yards and you dial in the correct DOPE, your rifle is now zeroed at 235 yards. It's no longer a single distance, it's *any* distance and you know how to get to it.

This is actually what you pay for in modern scopes.

Originally Posted by yakdout

Once you take your shot at 22 clicks in elevation and 13 clicks on your windage, you don’t need to remember how many clicks you went. You simply go back to the “zero” on your turrets and that’s your starting point. 100 yards. At least that’s how I understand it.

Yes, except you don't have to go back to 100 yards or any specific distance. Your scope is now a tool that allows you to shoot any known distance and your rifle acts as if it's zeroed at every distance. The concept of a single zero doesn't matter anymore.

The only time when you stick to the "traditional zero" is when you select a good distance on your scope and call it "good." This is how AR-s are used for all tactical purposes, where it's dynamic shooting at point blank range (meaning that you aim directly at the target).

[yakdout]

Originally Posted by IVC

Exactly - you dial in the specific distance and *any* distance you choose (or have dialed on the scope) is the distance at which your rifle is now zeroed. It's no longer a single distance from which you use your reticle and ballistic data to guess the correct holdover, you use the actual data for your rifle to set zero for the distance you wish.

In other words, if you dial in 200 yards (that you verified) and reset turrets, you're now zeroed at 200 yards. If you have a target at 235 yards and you dial in the correct DOPE, your rifle is now zeroed at 235 yards. It's no longer a single distance, it's *any* distance and you know how to get to it.

This is actually what you pay for in modern scopes.



Yes, except you don't have to go back to 100 yards or any specific distance. Your scope is now a tool that allows you to shoot any known distance and your rifle acts as if it's zeroed at every distance. The concept of a single zero doesn't matter anymore.

The only time when you stick to the "traditional zero" is when you select a good distance on your scope and call it "good." This is how AR-s are used for all tactical purposes, where it's dynamic shooting at point blank range (meaning that you aim directly at the target).

That all makes sense. Any specific optics you’re speaking of when you say modern optics. I’m still new to using scopes to their full potential, but have learned I prefer MOA to Mil.


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[IVC]

Check out what they use in PRS and you'll get a good overview of scopes that have repeatable turrets, which is a must if you want to do long range shooting.

Cheap scopes will barely hold zero under recoil. They are used like red dots, zeroed at a single distance and left alone. Better scopes will allow you to move up and down and will get you back to the same position, most of the time. They might get messed up if you dial in the windage (windage is rarely dialed in) as you change elevation. Good scopes allow you to go in all directions and will return you back to where you started (there are possibly some small tricks). Once you have repeatable turrets, the cost is in the additional features and especially in the quality of glass, something that tends to be more important for hunting than for fun shooting during the day.

The top end scopes before you get into ridiculous categories would be Vortex Razor, Nightforce, Leupold tactical scopes, etc. Above them you have all sorts of Euro optics such as Schmidt & Bender. Below you have mostly same brands with their economy lines, likely best bang for the buck. Just don't confuse competition lines and hunting lines. They have quite different characteristics.

Milliradians are more common and those scopes tend to keep value better. If you start shooting with more serious shooters, they will also likely use Mil scopes. But see what your fellow shooters that you expect to learn from shoot, then go with it. That way you're not the odd duck always having to calculate conversions.

[HKAllTheThings]

Take note that you don't dial for red dots, obviously, and you don't dial using LPVOs either. That's why you have the reticle drops.

[Dirtlaw]

300 yards is the point where a will presently stop. I want to be ethical in what I do.


OK, time for one of my ain't I stupid stories.


I have been sweating two or three hundred yards -- it seemed like a mile shot. But then I ranged some nearby objects. I can do this!

[IVC]

Originally Posted by Dirtlaw

I have been sweating two or three hundred yards -- it seemed like a mile shot. But then I ranged some nearby objects. I can do this!

Good - you shouldn't sweat those distances.

Long distance shooting is not about the target being small, you can always play that game at 100 yards by making the target comparatively small. If you want 6" at 600 yards, you can shoot 1" at 100 yards. No problem there at all.

The PROBLEM with long distance shooting is that the bullet will travel for a long time and will cover quite an arc. During that time, the wind, the imperfections of the bullet, the inconsistency of the load and the environmental factors will affect how the bullet flies and you'll end up with MUCH harder task of hitting the target consistently and quickly. It's similar to how 22 becomes exponentially harder as you go past 100 yards because the bullets' path becomes much less predictable.