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  #1  
Old 12-07-2022, 8:00 AM
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Default Rapture and 2nd coming short explanation

I read this today. May not be complete answer but may help. I guess in the bigger picture we need to be sure our salvation was secured,yesterday.

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Old 12-07-2022, 11:30 AM
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Amen. Nicely, succinctly stated. Thanks!
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Old 12-07-2022, 1:06 PM
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No issues with this, and what is at the bottom of the posting ? Hi Bill.

Psalm 1
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  #4  
Old 12-07-2022, 1:16 PM
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I should have tried linking it. It was early in the AM when I read my Christian daily startup material. It’s from an article written by Dr, David Jeremiah. I will look back and see if I can get it. I think I got the link. Cephas.

https://www.crosswalk.com/special-co...nd-coming.html
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Old 12-07-2022, 1:27 PM
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Default The explanation that is even shorter than the short one

There is only one source for the ticket to paradise and that is the Lord.
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  #6  
Old 12-09-2022, 10:24 PM
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I don’t know if the rapture will occur or not. It’s really not important as far as the grace of The Lord and His salvation for us repentant sinners.

What I do know for sure is a second coming of Christ and believing in Him. I think too many people get hung up with secondary issues, instead of core issues. They get distracted by… distractions. I believe the Rapture theory is a distraction.
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Old 12-10-2022, 5:58 AM
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I once heard a Bro say this...you say you don't believe in the rapture.....you're right, you won't be ! Its by faith. No faith in it happening, no happen. For me, myself, and I, I am a believer. To each his own in this journey we are on.

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Old 12-12-2022, 3:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Garand Hunter View Post
I once heard a Bro say this...you say you don't believe in the rapture.....you're right, you won't be ! Its by faith. No faith in it happening, no happen. For me, myself, and I, I am a believer. To each his own in this journey we are on.

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Nothing in the Bible says one must believe in a “Rapture” to be saved. It’s a secondary issue that really isn’t important when it comes to salvation, However the Bible is crystal clear about our salvation. There’s no guess work about it and this is what I believe based on scripture:

Acts 16:30-31 (NKJV)
30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Romans 10: 9-10 (ESV)
Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

John 3:16 (ESV)
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
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Old 12-14-2022, 9:37 PM
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Not gonna get into a biblical argument here but the OP's statement is one of three main widely accepted, but differing views regarding the rapture and second coming of Christ...

Some believe the the rapture and 2nd coming are separate events and the rapture will happen before the tribulation... that is called a Pre-Tribulation rapture.

Some believe the rapture will happen in the middle of the tribulation... that is called a Mid-tribulation rapture.

And some believe (as I do) that the rapture and the 2nd coming are essentially two parts of the same event when Christ returns to the earth and that it will not happen until AFTER the tribulation... that is called a POST-tribulation rapture.

There is NO CONSENSUS in the church as a whole as to which is correct and there are problems with and biblical evidence that support each view.

The study of eschatology is difficult. While I think having a view is just fine, clearly the OP and I disagree, I think it's best not to get your mind/heart too set on one view because if it goes down a different way than we expect it could be terribly confusing and difficult if not prepared for.

I'm always open to new ideas and having my mind changed, I used to have a Pre-Trib view, but after careful consideration, study, and listening to much teaching on the subject I have landed on a Post-trib belief.

Below is a quick link that explains the 3 views in more depth discussing the problems and biblical support for each view.

https://www.biblebb.com/files/eschatology.htm
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Old 12-15-2022, 6:25 AM
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Originally Posted by skilletboy View Post
Not gonna get into a biblical argument here but the OP's statement is one of three main widely accepted, but differing views regarding the rapture and second coming of Christ...

Some believe the the rapture and 2nd coming are separate events and the rapture will happen before the tribulation... that is called a Pre-Tribulation rapture.

Some believe the rapture will happen in the middle of the tribulation... that is called a Mid-tribulation rapture.

And some believe (as I do) that the rapture and the 2nd coming are essentially two parts of the same event when Christ returns to the earth and that it will not happen until AFTER the tribulation... that is called a POST-tribulation rapture.

There is NO CONSENSUS in the church as a whole as to which is correct and there are problems with and biblical evidence that support each view.

The study of eschatology is difficult.
While I think having a view is just fine, clearly the OP and I disagree, I think it's best not to get your mind/heart too set on one view because if it goes down a different way than we expect it could be terribly confusing and difficult if not prepared for.

I'm always open to new ideas and having my mind changed, I used to have a Pre-Trib view, but after careful consideration, study, and listening to much teaching on the subject I have landed on a Post-trib belief.

Below is a quick link that explains the 3 views in more depth discussing the problems and biblical support for each view.

https://www.biblebb.com/files/eschatology.htm
I will address the bold part.

When Christ returns to the earth, he returns with the saints. If the saints are caught up (raptured) and immediately return as He returns, that is called the up-and-back theory. That theory fails on two significant scriptural points points.

1. There is no time for the wedding feast of The Lamb.

2. Saints would have to go through the seven years of tribulation upon the earth. However Christ promised to keep us from that hour. Christ is not going to make His bride suffer His wrath. Like Lot and his family, we will be taken out before the place suffers God’s wrath.

There is a CONSENSUS in the church when all scripture is studied. Christ said it and the Apostles proclaimed it. The believer follows the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.

The study of Eschatology is not difficult if one studies the scriptures. (It has been my primary field of study since 1968.) When Jehovah Witness missionaries come to my door and I show them where Revelation proves that Jesus Christ is God, they also say, “Revelation is too hard to understand.” Hogwash.
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  #11  
Old 12-15-2022, 7:32 AM
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I will address the bold part.

When Christ returns to the earth, he returns with the saints. If the saints are caught up (raptured) and immediately return as He returns, that is called the up-and-back theory. That theory fails on two significant scriptural points points.

1. There is no time for the wedding feast of The Lamb.

2. Saints would have to go through the seven years of tribulation upon the earth. However Christ promised to keep us from that hour. Christ is not going to make His bride suffer His wrath. Like Lot and his family, we will be taken out before the place suffers God’s wrath.

There is a CONSENSUS in the church when all scripture is studied. Christ said it and the Apostles proclaimed it. The believer follows the teachings of Christ and the Apostles.

The study of Eschatology is not difficult if one studies the scriptures. (It has been my primary field of study since 1968.) When Jehovah Witness missionaries come to my door and I show them where Revelation proves that Jesus Christ is God, they also say, “Revelation is too hard to understand.” Hogwash.
I'm gonna respond to you the same way I did in the other thread.

As a graduate of bible college, and as one who spent about a year win seminary, and has worked in ministry for 15 years, I find your insinuation that my beliefs are "not from the scriptures" pretty insulting and proof as why I'm not going to get into a hard argument back and forth about which "end times" view is the "correct and biblical one". Mainly because what I have learned is that even scholars who have made legitimate and heartfelt searches and study of the scripture their whole lives don't agree. And if you've ever actually studied these events - as you say you have - in the Bible you should know that there is not agreement in the wider church about them.

If you want to scream at other believers and tell them they're in biblical error then that's on you. Dunning-Kruger effect seems to go hand in hand with eschatology arguments online and I'm the fool for even engaging I think...
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Last edited by skilletboy; 12-15-2022 at 7:48 AM..
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2022, 1:38 PM
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I'm gonna respond to you the same way I did in the other thread.

As a graduate of bible college, and as one who spent about a year win seminary, and has worked in ministry for 15 years, I find your insinuation that my beliefs are "not from the scriptures" pretty insulting and proof as why I'm not going to get into a hard argument back and forth about which "end times" view is the "correct and biblical one". Mainly because what I have learned is that even scholars who have made legitimate and heartfelt searches and study of the scripture their whole lives don't agree. And if you've ever actually studied these events - as you say you have - in the Bible you should know that there is not agreement in the wider church about them.

If you want to scream at other believers and tell them they're in biblical error then that's on you. Dunning-Kruger effect seems to go hand in hand with eschatology arguments online and I'm the fool for even engaging I think...
I stopped engaging with Dispy's long ago. The ancient Church theories are not only wrong, they are apostate.
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Old 12-15-2022, 2:22 PM
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Revelation 3:10 ”Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.”

1 Thessalonians 5:9 “For God has not appointed us to suffer wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.”

Pretty obvious that believers will not be on the earth during Daniels 70th week a.k.a. The Tribulation. After Revelation chapter 3, the church is not mentioned again.
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Old 12-15-2022, 3:57 PM
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This opinion, that opinion, still another opinion.
All I know is I am ready however whenever it happens.
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Old 12-15-2022, 9:05 PM
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This opinion, that opinion, still another opinion.
All I know is I am ready however whenever it happens.
This is correct. And and I agree 100%.
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Old 12-16-2022, 3:38 AM
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Plan your life as if He is never going to come. Live your life as if He is coming tomorrow.
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Old 12-16-2022, 6:33 AM
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Opinions, web sites and human reasoning don't matter. Only the Word of God matters on the subject.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
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Old 12-17-2022, 6:16 AM
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Opinions, web sites and human reasoning don't matter. Only the Word of God matters on the subject.

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God[a] may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
You seem to be confusing your interpretation of scripture with scripture IMO. Running around online telling everyone that their opinions of scripture are wrong because they don't align with yours and acting this way isn't really constructive. What are you hoping to accomplish?
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Old 12-17-2022, 8:00 AM
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You seem to be confusing your interpretation of scripture with scripture IMO. Running around online telling everyone that their opinions of scripture are wrong because they don't align with yours and acting this way isn't really constructive. What are you hoping to accomplish?
No problem. Show us the scriptural citations that prove your point. Let God settle it.

Educate us on your post-tribulation rapture evidence. Where is that found in scripture?
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Old 12-17-2022, 9:35 AM
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Fun. Division over a tertiary issue.
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Old 12-17-2022, 1:09 PM
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No problem. Show us the scriptural citations that prove your point. Let God settle it.

Educate us on your post-tribulation rapture evidence. Where is that found in scripture?
Dude chill out. I posted an entire website that has biblical scripture points that support each of the three POV. Scholars don’t agree on this issue. If you care to ignore that fact that’s on you. I’m not getting into a biblical debate online that serves no purpose. Especially with you, especially since you really seem unable to handle someone having a different opinion from you.

This is the last comment I’m making to you regarding this topic. Rage away brother. Peace be with you.
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Old 12-17-2022, 1:09 PM
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Fun. Division over a tertiary issue.
Exactly!!
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Old 12-17-2022, 3:57 PM
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So, you cannot defend your beliefs with scripture. Just some web site. Got it.

If you’re going to believe everything you read, read your Bible.
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Old 12-17-2022, 4:25 PM
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And we wonder why people are leaving the church in droves…our church, much like our country, has never been more divided. Bizarre why people would get so upset over a non-essential issue.
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Old 12-17-2022, 5:14 PM
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And we wonder why people are leaving the church in droves…our church, much like our country, has never been more divided. Bizarre why people would get so upset over a non-essential issue.
And we wonder why this particular speciality forum struggles to have posters. Why post when you get attacked for simply disagreeing in the gentlest way possible?
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Old 12-18-2022, 3:36 AM
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And we wonder why people are leaving the church in droves…our church, much like our country, has never been more divided. Bizarre why people would get so upset over a non-essential issue.
That's how the Devil works. A house divided will not stand.
We may have differences in opinion, but as long as we agree
on by who and how we are saved, we are still brothers and sisters in Christ.
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Old 12-18-2022, 11:15 AM
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Mr TrailerParkTrash.....My posting was about one persons point of view of FAITH IN THE RAPTURE or NO FAITH in the Rapture.. Not about salvation. Believing in the Rapture event or not does not affect your personal salvation. Personally I do believe that it will occur when The Almighty says its time for it. No sweat with me as to when.

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