No Ammo PPTs at Turners?

[pacrat]

Originally Posted by ThatOneTurnersGuy

Sorry for the delay. Sorry to say but with everything that has happened in the past 18 months there have been no changes to processing ammo transfers.

So, TURDner's remains TURDner's. With no changes for the betterment of your CS policies.

NOT Fair. NOT honest. NOT compliant with Ca LAW. NOT gonna get any of my money.

Seems that the only thing TurDner's is, is Consistant.

[I Swan]

Originally Posted by pacrat

So, TURDner's remains TURDner's. With no changes for the betterment of your CS policies.

NOT Fair. NOT honest. NOT compliant with Ca LAW. NOT gonna get any of my money.

Seems that the only thing TurDner's is, is Consistant.

I wonder if he will address various Turner's locations doing what they can to refuse gun PPT business and foist those customers on other mom and pop FFL's in the area? Nah, probably not.

[freonr22]

Why not just report them to batfe?

[I Swan]

Originally Posted by freonr22

Why not just report them to batfe?

ATF could care less about PPT refusal violations. It would be CA DOJ but they rarely enforce it.

[Garv]

3 year bump.

Any updates?

[Batman]

Completely hypothetical, but if you were to meet at Turners for an ammo PPT and they refused, since both parties agreed to the PPT at an FFL who then refused, if they simply did a cash and carry at Turners parking lot, would the parties be breaking the law, or would Turners? Just asking for a friend....

[CommieforniaCompatriot]

Originally Posted by Batman

Completely hypothetical, but if you were to meet at Turners for an ammo PPT and they refused, since both parties agreed to the PPT at an FFL who then refused, if they simply did a cash and carry at Turners parking lot, would the parties be breaking the law, or would Turners? Just asking for a friend....

Parties would be breaking the law... Stores have the right to refuse service to anyone.

[CommieforniaCompatriot]

Originally Posted by Garv

3 year bump.

Any updates?

We still don't do ammo PPTs.

[Batman]

Originally Posted by CommieforniaCompatriot

Parties would be breaking the law... Stores have the right to refuse service to anyone.

Sure they have the right, as much as a baker has the right to refuse service to make a wedding cake for two partners, right? Except that in this case, ANYONE can bake a wedding cake, but to buy and sell ammunition now requires an FFL. And THAT license is regulated and there are rules that have to be followed.

[pacrat]

Originally Posted by CommieforniaCompatriot

We still don't do ammo PPTs.

Are you part of Turdner's management, and have the authority to speak for them?

Or do you have a mouse in your pocket?

[ThatOneTurnersGuy]

No changes to ammo PPT policy.

Aside from what’s discussed on this forum we rarely see anyone coming in looking to do ammo PPTs

[Batman]

Originally Posted by ThatOneTurnersGuy

No changes to ammo PPT policy.

Aside from what’s discussed on this forum we rarely see anyone coming in looking to do ammo PPTs

Well there you go! That's like saying that no one goes to that restaurant anymore.... it's too crowded!

Trust me, we don't like having to go through an FFL for an ammo sale from one person to another. We don't like having to have a background check performed. We don't like having limits on what we can sell. But it's the law. And part of that stipulates having to go through an FFL. And much like we can't pick and choose what laws we're supposed to follow, neither are you. Don't like doing ammo PPT's? No problem. Turn in your FFL and become Turner's Fishing Store, with a side division of firearm accessories, then.

[Mayor McRifle]

You know, if everyone just agreed to not report anyone for selling ammo to each other within the gun community, there would be no need for ammo PPTs. That’s how we do it in my part of the state anyway. Food for thought.

[CommieforniaCompatriot]

Originally Posted by pacrat

Are you part of Turdner's management, and have the authority to speak for them?

Or do you have a mouse in your pocket?

I think you're frustrated with the wrong person here. Not a chief, simply an Indian.

[pacrat]

Originally Posted by CommieforniaCompatriot

I think you're frustrated with the wrong person here. Not a chief, simply an Indian.

No frustration involved. You recently dropped into this "Turdner's" sub forum, using the pronoun "we". And speaking definitively regarding policy.

Well WE, the forum members, have no idea who you are. So I asked.

And some of what you post, may be compatible with Turdner's policiy. But it isn't accurate. It isn't correct. And it isn't even legal. As "Batman" so articulated in post #52.

Parties would be breaking the law... Stores have the right to refuse service to anyone.

You got that half right, the underlined part. Operating a FFL in the state of Ca. It is the state who has the right to tell FFLs who they can refuse. Ca PC 30312, clearly states that Turdner's or any other FFL in Ca "SHALL FACILITATE AMMO PPT TRANSFERS".

FYI, the word SHALL used in a statute, places a MANDATORY ONUS on those described in the statute.

30312.
(a) (1) Commencing January 1, 2018, the sale of ammunition by any party shall be conducted by or processed through a licensed ammunition vendor.

(2) When neither party to an ammunition sale is a licensed ammunition vendor, the seller shall deliver the ammunition to a vendor to process the transaction. The ammunition vendor shall promptly and properly deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, if the sale is not prohibited, as if the ammunition were the vendor’s own merchandise. If the ammunition vendor cannot legally deliver the ammunition to the purchaser, the vendor shall forthwith return the ammunition to the seller. The ammunition vendor may charge the purchaser an administrative fee to process the transaction, in an amount to be set by the Department of Justice, in addition to any applicable fees that may be charged pursuant to the provisions of this title.

Just because the A-holes at CaDOJ, look the other way with a wink, while Turdner's breaks the same law, that they would gladly prosecute citizens for.
Does NOT MEAN that Turdner's, HAS THE RIGHT TO BREAK THE LAW.

I wish Turdner's would rescind their several, illegal policy practices. I would gladly again become a patron. Since the Norwalk store is only 1 1/2 mi from my house.

[CommieforniaCompatriot]

Originally Posted by pacrat

No frustration involved. You recently dropped into this "Turdner's" sub forum, using the pronoun "we". And speaking definitively regarding policy.

Well WE, the forum members, have no idea who you are. So I asked.

And some of what you post, may be compatible with Turdner's policiy. But it isn't accurate. It isn't correct. And it isn't even legal. As "Batman" so articulated in post #52.



You got that half right, the underlined part. Operating a FFL in the state of Ca. It is the state who has the right to tell FFLs who they can refuse. Ca PC 30312, clearly states that Turdner's or any other FFL in Ca "SHALL FACILITATE AMMO PPT TRANSFERS".

FYI, the word SHALL used in a statute, places a MANDATORY ONUS on those described in the statute.



Just because the A-holes at CaDOJ, look the other way with a wink, while Turdner's breaks the same law, that they would gladly prosecute citizens for.
Does NOT MEAN that Turdner's, HAS THE RIGHT TO BREAK THE LAW.

I wish Turdner's would rescind their several, illegal policy practices. I would gladly again become a patron. Since the Norwalk store is only 1 1/2 mi from my house.

Interesting. I didn't know the government could force a private business to conduct business with someone. It certainly appears from your quote that is what they are attempting to do.

[Batman]

Originally Posted by CommieforniaCompatriot

Interesting. I didn't know the government could force a private business to conduct business with someone. It certainly appears from your quote that is what they are attempting to do.

No, your company took the position that it would obey the requirements of being a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer in the State of California. As I mentioned before, if you don't want to be part of that business, it's simply a matter of turning in your FFL and just selling accessories and fishing gear. As your company chooses to sell firearms and ammunition, part of the requirement is to facilitate transfers.

Like I said, we don't like the law either. However, we're required to follow it, just as you are. Having a store policy that states you won't do part of your license requirements does NOT indemnify you from actually having to do them.

[pacrat]

Originally Posted by CommieforniaCompatriot

Interesting. I didn't know the government could force a private business to conduct business with someone. It certainly appears from your quote that is what they are attempting to do.

underlined ..... Not "attempting to do". It is what THEY DID DO. Just like they did in 1991 with the DROS crap FORCING citizens to use a FFL for ALL sales/transfers.

When the legislature FORCES citizens to comply. It also FORCES the FFLs to facilitate that compliance.

But the legislature doesn't force its enforcement agency [DOJ] to enforce the facilitation.

[Batman]

Originally Posted by pacrat

underlined ..... Not "attempting to do". It is what THEY DID DO. Just like they did in 1991 with the DROS crap FORCING citizens to use a FFL for ALL sales/transfers.

When the legislature FORCES citizens to comply. It also FORCES the FFLs to facilitate that compliance.

But the legislature doesn't force its enforcement agency [DOJ] to enforce the facilitation.

And the FFLs were in FAVOR of this when it happened!! Why? Get two customers in your shop, and you know one now has a wad of cash in their pocket? Why wouldn't they want it?

Now, as time goes on, the fact that they're only getting $10 to do the transfer (and adding multiple layers of bureaucracy on top of that), the FFLs are mad that they have to do it! So what do you do?

1. Whine! Whine! Whine!
2. Make it as onerous as possible to do a transfer.
3. Set only certain times and only certain dates you'll do it
4. Ultimately, claim you won't do them at all. <-- We're here now, BTW
5. Whine some more!

As I said... don't like the rules? Don't play the game. Become Turners Tackle and Firearms Accessories. But don't tell me that government is forcing you to obey the law.

What's the difference? You have a choice... Give up your FFL and there's no requirement to do any transfers. We don't have that option.

[TKM]

Originally Posted by CommieforniaCompatriot

Interesting. I didn't know the government could force a private business to conduct business with someone. It certainly appears from your quote that is what they are attempting to do.

They don't have to do jack. Unless they are licensed and the terms of the license require the jack......

Don't feel like being a licensee, alert the Ca DOJ Bureau of Firearms that you would like to relinquish your license.

We are not the bad guys here. Step up and do what your license requires you to do. I don't know, maybe hire and train somebody.....

[Xplosiv3]

I wonder why not? It's been almost 3 years now and they would make the same amount of money doing an ammo PPT as if they were doing a firearm PPT.

Obviously it's not a common thing customers ask for but it's not unheard of either. When two people on this forum want to conduct a transaction of lets say 1000rds of a rare Mauser caliber and neither of them know each other, the safe thing to do would be to conduct the transaction legally at a gun shop.

I understand Turners sells ammo themselves but there should at least be an exception for calibers they don't carry/have in stock.

[Garv]

Originally Posted by Xplosiv3

.....as if they were doing a firearm PPT. .....

The transaction brings two or more people into the building which should be a net positive.

A large amount of CGers have stated they try to make other purchases when they go in for a PPT.

I have (almost) always bought some ammo, targets, cleaning supplies.