Buying guns while in the military, bringing guns to CA, CCW

[jaywalker9611@gmail.com]

Originally Posted by Librarian

Handgun Roster does not apply when you are ordered here[/U]

You may bring most of your guns with you; the Handgun Roster does not apply to moving or visiting here.

Thanks for your helpful and informative post. However, as an Active Duty Military PCSing to CA shortly this info is quite outdated and hoping you can provide updated answers to my questions. Is this still true? If so, does that mean I can sell my handgun to a private party even though it's not registered nor on the CA Roster?

Originally Posted by Librarian

Presuming your weapon is not listed in the banned-by-name group (see the Flowchart - http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf) you may add a magazine locking device ('bullet button") and use 10-round magazines in it while in CA.[/INDENT]

Do you have an updated Banned by Name Group? Since Bullet button is no more, a likes of Juggernaut Hellfighter type sufficient? How about 30rd magazines brought into the state? Since the Freedom week?

Originally Posted by Librarian

Don't worry about handgun registration

Military is exempt from registering handguns (or long guns, beginning in 2014) as a 'new resident' 'personal handgun importer'.

So long guns applies as well? Which means modified AR15 would fall into the long guns category of not needing to be registered?

Thank you very much for your helpful insight and generosity in sharing helpful information!

[RickD427]

Originally Posted by jaywalker9611@gmail.com

Thanks for your helpful and informative post. However, as an Active Duty Military PCSing to CA shortly this info is quite outdated and hoping you can provide updated answers to my questions. Is this still true? If so, does that mean I can sell my handgun to a private party even though it's not registered nor on the CA Roster?

Do you have an updated Banned by Name Group? Since Bullet button is no more, a likes of Juggernaut Hellfighter type sufficient? How about 30rd magazines brought into the state? Since the Freedom week?

So long guns applies as well? Which means modified AR15 would fall into the long guns category of not needing to be registered?

Thank you very much for your helpful insight and generosity in sharing helpful information!

There have been no significant changes to the roster, from your perspective as an incoming military member. You can import lawfully configured, but off-roster, handguns during your stay. There is no need to register them so long as you remain on active duty.

Be careful with the "lawfully configured" part. A 1911 with a threaded on compensator is illegal, so too are the "Taurus Judge" and similar pistols.

There has been a significant change in the "Bullet Buttons." Originally an AR-15 equipped with a "Bullet Button" fell outside of the definition of an Assault Weapon. The law was changed and now Bullet Button equipped AR's are Assault Weapons.

If you seek to sell, via a PPT, any firearms while you're in California, stand by to be made aware of the differing definitions of 'Resident" under California and federal law. Federal law regards you as a California resident simply by virtue of your PCS orders. Nothing else matters. California considers you as a resident if you demonstrate an intent to maintain a home in California. Stuff like having a California Driver's License or ID Card matters. California has to consider you as a resident before you can do a PPT.

No change on the "Evil by Name" list.

It's a felony to bring a Large-Capacity Magazine into the state. There is a federal court injunction giving some protection to those who imported them during "Freedom Week." There is no protection for other persons importing such magazines.

Be careful using the word "Registered" when discussing firearms in California. There are two very different meanings of that word. It is used: 1) To indicate the firearm(s) have been recorded in the Automated Firearms System database maintained by the DOJ. and 2) To indicate that a weapon has been registered as an "Assault Weapon" with the DOJ. If you simply register an Assault Weapon in the AFS, you don't meet the legal requirements for registering the Assault Weapon.

As an active duty military member you should be aware that you are eligible to register your Assault Weapons, and to possess them in California, with a Military Assault Weapons Permit. Those permits are kinda like unicorns. They seem to exist just to keep military folks happy. I don't know of anyone who has actually been issued such a permit.

[jaywalker9611@gmail.com]

Thank you very much for your kind through explanation Rick, I am enlightened!

However, I'm still puzzled as to my question regarding the long gun/modified CA compliant AR 15.

Long guns ie., shotguns, (pistol grip shotgun needs to be modified? I have a Benelli Supernova pump) bolt action rifles does not need to be registered correct?

As to 'normal' Civilian AR 15s in Milspec configuration, before entering CA, as long as I modify it to comply with CA regulations, I don't need to register them just as the handguns due to my Active Duty Military status?

[rajahsoliman]

Yes u don’t hv to register your firearms. Long guns you need an AR Mag Lock if u want to keep the evil features. Sorry not true "California has to consider you as a resident before you can do a PPT." all you need is a CAC and copy of your orders. Limited to 5 PPTs or 50 guns per year. You can buy guns too once a month from a dealer or any number of firearms thru PPT - they don’t count on the one pistol/rifle per 30 days. Shotguns are unlimited purchase.

[jaywalker9611@gmail.com]

Thanks rajasoliman for clarifying!

[Supersapper]

Originally Posted by RickD427

There have been no significant changes to the roster, from your perspective as an incoming military member. You can import lawfully configured, but off-roster, handguns during your stay. There is no need to register them so long as you remain on active duty.

Be careful with the "lawfully configured" part. A 1911 with a threaded on compensator is illegal, so too are the "Taurus Judge" and similar pistols.

There has been a significant change in the "Bullet Buttons." Originally an AR-15 equipped with a "Bullet Button" fell outside of the definition of an Assault Weapon. The law was changed and now Bullet Button equipped AR's are Assault Weapons.

If you seek to sell, via a PPT, any firearms while you're in California, stand by to be made aware of the differing definitions of 'Resident" under California and federal law. Federal law regards you as a California resident simply by virtue of your PCS orders. Nothing else matters. California considers you as a resident if you demonstrate an intent to maintain a home in California. Stuff like having a California Driver's License or ID Card matters. California has to consider you as a resident before you can do a PPT.

No change on the "Evil by Name" list.

It's a felony to bring a Large-Capacity Magazine into the state. There is a federal court injunction giving some protection to those who imported them during "Freedom Week." There is no protection for other persons importing such magazines.

Be careful using the word "Registered" when discussing firearms in California. There are two very different meanings of that word. It is used: 1) To indicate the firearm(s) have been recorded in the Automated Firearms System database maintained by the DOJ. and 2) To indicate that a weapon has been registered as an "Assault Weapon" with the DOJ. If you simply register an Assault Weapon in the AFS, you don't meet the legal requirements for registering the Assault Weapon.

As an active duty military member you should be aware that you are eligible to register your Assault Weapons, and to possess them in California, with a Military Assault Weapons Permit. Those permits are kinda like unicorns. They seem to exist just to keep military folks happy. I don't know of anyone who has actually been issued such a permit.

Rick,

For staters, I'm not an attorney. Just a military guy who's asked the questions.

Actually, not 100% true, but there are nuances, especially for a Reservist or Guard member on active duty orders (like AGR). The OP needs to talk to JAG to get a solid clarification. In the military, you are a resident of the state you claim as Home of Record. You may or may not be required to obtain a California DL or even ID card, if you are active duty and live in another state. Let me give you an example: Man joins the military as a resident of Oklahoma and is PCS'd to California. He is still a resident of Oklahoma because that is his original state.

Regarding the "Military Assault Weapons permit", as someone in the military for 20 years, I've never heard of such. A military member, under UCMJ, must generally abide by the laws of the state they are domiciled in, even though they are a resident of another state. Such weapons would have to be stored on base and not taken off base, or the local constabulary could create an issue. It's very nuanced, when dealing with the military. There's even a specific dealing with the CalDOJ and a National Guard member who was on the state marksmanship team for the Guard. CalDOJ lost the argument and had to give the rifle back, but again...legal nuances for we military folk.

To recap, OP needs to ask the local JAG about how it works for them.

Sapper

[RickD427]

Originally Posted by Supersapper

Rick,

For staters, I'm not an attorney. Just a military guy who's asked the questions.

Actually, not 100% true, but there are nuances, especially for a Reservist or Guard member on active duty orders (like AGR). The OP needs to talk to JAG to get a solid clarification. In the military, you are a resident of the state you claim as Home of Record. You may or may not be required to obtain a California DL or even ID card, if you are active duty and live in another state. Let me give you an example: Man joins the military as a resident of Oklahoma and is PCS'd to California. He is still a resident of Oklahoma because that is his original state.

Regarding the "Military Assault Weapons permit", as someone in the military for 20 years, I've never heard of such. A military member, under UCMJ, must generally abide by the laws of the state they are domiciled in, even though they are a resident of another state. Such weapons would have to be stored on base and not taken off base, or the local constabulary could create an issue. It's very nuanced, when dealing with the military. There's even a specific dealing with the CalDOJ and a National Guard member who was on the state marksmanship team for the Guard. CalDOJ lost the argument and had to give the rifle back, but again...legal nuances for we military folk.

To recap, OP needs to ask the local JAG about how it works for them.

Sapper

Sapper,

The issue of residency, for the purposes of firearms laws, actually is that simple. A military "Home of Record", or the possession of a state Driver's License or ID Card are quite irrelevant. The question is fully controlled by 18 USC 921(b). Here is the exact text of the statute:

"For the purposes of this chapter, a member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his permanent duty station is located."

Please note the absence of any other qualifying criteria. You may very well be correct with regard to meaning of "Residency" for other purposes, but for the matters controlled by Chapter 44 of Title 18 (which includes the federal statutes concerning the possession and transfer of non-NFA firearms), the PCS Orders are the only thing that matters.

The "Military Assault Weapons Permit" is the vehicle which makes the possession of privately owned Assault Weapons legal under California law while the military owner is assigned to duty in California. Here is a link to the California DOJ website describing the permit: https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...ms/mawpapp.pdf

I'm not at all surprised that you were unaware of the availability of such a permit. The DOJ has not been very forthcoming in publicizing the program, and when you look at the requirements, they're quite difficult to meet. I know of no one who has actually received such a permit.

[Librarian]

This requirement

Official letter signed by the applicant's Base Commander, establishing that a bona fide necessity exists for use of personal assault weapons in military sanctioned activities.

pretty much killed the program.

[RickD427]

Originally Posted by Librarian

This requirement

pretty much killed the program.

Librarian,

You're right on point with that observation, but there's also some more skulldruggery contained in the program.

The requirement for the "Base Commander" as opposed to a member's "Unit Commander" is quite significant. A military member's "Unit Commander" is the superior with the best knowledge of the member's needs, and would be the most appropriate person to endorse the application. With the military consolidation that's occurred over the past 20 years, the "Base Commander" is a very senior official, and one who doesn't really interact with the individual members. Look at Camp Pendleton as an example. The Base Commander is a Brigadier General, That "Base Commander" is responsible for roughly 70,000 service members on the base. There are 30 "Unit Commanders" of various units and schools on the base. You're gonna have a hard time getting him to sign off on the application.

Even if he did sign, and the completed application went to the DOJ, keep in mind that John Garamendi and Jackie Speier both sit on the House Armed Services Committee. Expect a back-channel call from Mr. Bonta's office to those two and an inquiry from them to the Commandant of the Marine Corps requesting to know why the Marine Corps is unable to issue a rifle to the applicant Marine for use in his official duties. Guess how that's gonna end.

The application requires a photocopy of the member's military ID card. Service members are programmed to believe that it is illegal to make such a copy (however the statute that makes it illegal contains an exception where the copying is done in compliance with law or regulation). That belief is likely to stop some application from going forward.

Even if a service member makes it to end of the process, the permit is only good for a year. Then you gotta repeat the whole process.