PT uniform. Is this kosher?

[AregularGuy]

Not my circus and not my monkeys, so let me get that out of the way first. And no, I will not be correcting anyone based on this. Mostly just a curiosity. Been going to the gym daily at JBLM for 2 months now. This is the on-Post gym, currently only open to active duty Soldiers. On several occasions I have seen people wearing a combo of Army PT shorts and random t-shirts or tank tops, or even the coyote undershirt. I always figured the uniform was the uniform and not "mix and match".

Looking through DA670-1 and DA PAM 670-1 nothing explicitly forbids mix and match on Post, although there is this line from DA 670-1:

"Soldiers may wear all or part of the physical fitness uniform with civilian attire off the installation, unless restricted by the commander."

So what say you CG guru's? Doesn't seem kosher to me and if not then slightly annoying due to lack of personal discipline.

[eviioiive]

If it’s not prohibited what’s the problem?
Also, if it’s allowed off base why not on?

[Milsurp1]

You could ask them what their chain of command said about the topic.

[AregularGuy]

Originally Posted by Milsurp1

You could ask them what their chain of command said about the topic.

Lol. Apparently you did not read my comments that insinuated I do not care that much, merely out of curiosity. I was always under the impression that you wore the uniform as a "uniform". Certainly plausible that was my incorrect assumption and maybe I would get a new perspective. Not looking to watchdaog anyone else. Just noticing a weird trend.

[Milsurp1]

Your original post said you would not be correcting anybody, but that you are curious. If you care enough to post here and ask us to guess about it, then you could ask someone at the gym without correcting them.

[AregularGuy]

Originally Posted by Milsurp1

Your original post said you would not be correcting anybody, but that you are curious. If you care enough to post here and ask us to guess about it, then you could ask someone at the gym without correcting them.

Good point and point taken. I care enough to post here but not enough to ask in person. I really don't want to stick my nose into anyone's business, at least not face to face, nor do I want to seem like a douchey "know it all" questioning their attire. Even is it were diplomatically asked the implication would be there. I would typically annoy the crap out of my SGM with "hypothetical" questions but I am here solo. So why not turn to the brain trust of CG's?.

[Snoopy47]

If this CPT can get away with this as his official DA Photo.......



...........then I submit that folks can be left alone when PTing

I had to deal with blow back because my cooks were seen wearing PT uniforms (fully and correct) while in the field on the way to the showers in the back of an LMTV (wearing ACH's)

Never mind there was a straight up General's memo allowing for such (because cooks are on par with medical staff when it comes to cleanliness). A COL stopped them and I had to hear about it, all for it to be a non event, but the COL had to get in other's business (which by the way was approved in writing above their authority).

Anyway, I like to think of a few things before I go off the about inconsequential things.
1) If I personally do not make the correction what are the consequences to myself, and the safety of others if it goes unchecked?
1a) I would suggest if the NCOIC/OIC of the Gym operations is letting it fly then maybe there is something not worth my curiosity to be poking around.

2) Once I interject myself into a situation what is the overall benefit to the correction relative to the myself, soldiers, and the soldiers associated with the Chain of Command to the situation I'm interjecting myself.
2a) Is the soldier mine, or part of my higher where I know my rater or Sr. Rater would like to see the correction (per their guidance).

Because whatever you do, the incident itself might be of absolute no consequence to those you are reporting it to and they will soon forget it, but they wont forget you.

********
I remember being in South Korea as an intel analyst (E4), and a fellow underling like myself (E3) noticed a MSG walking around the food court with his classified SCIF badge in plain view.

The PFC noticed it, and asked me if we should say something to the MSG. I told him be my guest. To everyone reading this, you will be disappointed. Nothing happened. The PFC was respectful, and the MSG was "oh crap" and corrected himself. But there could have been adverse consequences if of the badge fell into the wrong hands or he was followed based on his classified association, or even a forged badge could be made.

Had we seen the same MSG in half uniform at a gym, naw........... whatever, let someone else correct him. That's a Post CSM lane.

*****
That's what it comes down to. Is it YOUR lane???

Safety/Security is everyone's lane. Uniform corrections are the CSM's lane, and some would argue the lane of the chain of command of the specific violator or a installation where the violation is occurring.

You are within regulations of pointing it out.

Now.............. Hilariously............. I observed the VERY situation you are describing happen on Camp Parks GYM. One of my unit's CPT's thought he could wear half/half uniform in the GYM, and the POST CSM corrected him.

The idiot CPT pulled rank, but the CSM toed the line and fell back on regulations. He's also the POST CSM and is the eyes and ears of the POST COMMANDER.

I was only a SGT then so I wasn't privy to the follow up conversation my Battalion CO might have had to have with the Post CO and then again with the CPT.

Anyway, if it really bothers you approach the GYM staff.

[AregularGuy]

Originally Posted by Snoopy47

If this CPT can get away with this as his official DA Photo.......



...........then I submit that folks can be left alone when PTing

I had to deal with blow back because my cooks were seen wearing PT uniforms (fully and correct) while in the field on the way to the showers in the back of an LMTV (wearing ACH's)

Never mind there was a straight up General's memo allowing for such (because cooks are on par with medical staff when it comes to cleanliness). A COL stopped them and I had to hear about it, all for it to be a non event, but the COL had to get in other's business (which by the way was approved in writing above their authority).

Anyway, I like to think of a few things before I go off the about inconsequential things.
1) If I personally do not make the correction what are the consequences to myself, and the safety of others if it goes unchecked?
1a) I would suggest if the NCOIC/OIC of the Gym operations is letting it fly then maybe there is something not worth my curiosity to be poking around.

2) Once I interject myself into a situation what is the overall benefit to the correction relative to the myself, soldiers, and the soldiers associated with the Chain of Command to the situation I'm interjecting myself.
2a) Is the soldier mine, or part of my higher where I know my rater or Sr. Rater would like to see the correction (per their guidance).

Because whatever you do, the incident itself might be of absolute no consequence to those you are reporting it to and they will soon forget it, but they wont forget you.

********
I remember being in South Korea as an intel analyst (E4), and a fellow underling like myself (E3) noticed a MSG walking around the food court with his classified SCIF badge in plain view.

The PFC noticed it, and asked me if we should say something to the MSG. I told him be my guest. To everyone reading this, you will be disappointed. Nothing happened. The PFC was respectful, and the MSG was "oh crap" and corrected himself. But there could have been adverse consequences if of the badge fell into the wrong hands or he was followed based on his classified association, or even a forged badge could be made.

Had we seen the same MSG in half uniform at a gym, naw........... whatever, let someone else correct him. That's a Post CSM lane.

*****
That's what it comes down to. Is it YOUR lane???

Safety/Security is everyone's lane. Uniform corrections are the CSM's lane, and some would argue the lane of the chain of command of the specific violator or a installation where the violation is occurring.

You are within regulations of pointing it out.

Now.............. Hilariously............. I observed the VERY situation you are describing happen on Camp Parks GYM. One of my unit's CPT's thought he could wear half/half uniform in the GYM, and the POST CSM corrected him.

The idiot CPT pulled rank, but the CSM toed the line and fell back on regulations. He's also the POST CSM and is the eyes and ears of the POST COMMANDER.

I was only a SGT then so I wasn't privy to the follow up conversation my Battalion CO might have had to have with the Post CO and then again with the CPT.

Anyway, if it really bothers you approach the GYM staff.

Thanks for the reply. I've seen some jacked up uniforms in my short time. I had a COL and CSM go over my ASU's before my DA photo. By coincidence they were there. Neither of them pointed out the poor tailoring, after paying to have it tailored, and missing chicken. Had to do my photo again 2 weeks later.

I am also of the mind that some Soldiers do enough dumb stuff that deserves a discussion. I'm not going to hem anyone up for exercising. The initiative should be commended.

1. Not looking to get in anyone else's business. I don't care that much and it is not my lane anyway.

2. It doesn't affect me one way or the other, hence my earlier comment that I didn't want to ask the Soldier about so as to avoid the implication or suggestion of correcting them, even more so if i were wrong and to avoid being a douche for no reason.

3. Honestly just curious if this was permitted since I had not seen it before. If not permitted then see #1.

[riserdive]

On post, it is not permitted unless explicitly permitted by Command policy.

However, it absolutely has been permitted OCONUS by local and/or theater policy.. Usually this means tan uniform t-shirt with PT shorts, and I've literally done exactly that for years. Sometimes comfortable/familiar practices follow guys home and leaders don't say anything (or just don't know to say anything). I'd bet this falls into this category: "Oh, I didn't know, we did it this way in ____".

There are also plenty of Commanders that prescribe their own varieties of duty or PT uniforms (sometimes with validity and uniformity, sometimes with some total disregard for common sense). Some organizations have their own unit gyms (yep, even on JBLM), and their local practices might creep into other locations when restraint should be used. I've been TDY before and totally forgotten that PT belts or not wearing headphones while running are a Big Army standard thing, and I've gotten spot corrections. It happens, and I've thanked people for correcting me because I was wrong. Sooner or later I'll probably coin someone for it.

Lots of organizations have their own shirts, shorts, ranger panties/silkies, baseball caps, etc. Do they get mixed and matched at a commander's direction or local policy? Can a tan unit shirt (or a black jumpmaster shirt) be dual purposed by a command team for PT and OCPs? Do guys wear these variants to Post gyms and get strange looks? Do busy/overworked/tired guys forget not to wear a unit baseball cap or 'field' civilian hiking boots outside of a unit area (like, to the PX)? Yes, to all. I've done all of them, more than once, probably even recently.

Again, I'm willing to bet someone either was TDY and absentmindedly brought their local practices with them, or was allowed to do it at a previous assignment by policy and hasn't adapted to the new duty station.

[AregularGuy]

Thank you for the insight. That all makes sense.

[Carcassonne]

From my days in the Army, you could not mix and match clothes. A uniform must be complete head to toe. You could not wear your uniform off base or any part of it. You weren't even suppose to drive off post with a uniform if you lived off base. PT uniforms were just for PT. After PT you had to change to either a Class A or BDU uniform as soon as possible.

If you are not in the military, it doesn't matter.


.

[ace_31]

Originally Posted by Milsurp1

Your original post said you would not be correcting anybody, but that you are curious. If you care enough to post here and ask us to guess about it, then you could ask someone at the gym without correcting them.

+1

To say you don't care, yet to employ enough effort to come on here and ask the question in the manner in which you do while discussing discipline/being annoyed and so on is contradictory at the least. Either you don't care (no personal feelings) or you do have feelings strong enough to....which infers caring. Furthermore, for someone who isn't part of the life nor has made the commitment to approach the subject in that manner could very easily cause some of us to bristle due to a few factors. The only point I'll address is the following which is echoed by at least one other person on here. There are those of us that are protective over our troops and respect/understand the value in the commitment to the various sacrifices they've made. To have someone from the outside who could potentially stir the pot (potentially leading to an overreaction) can cause those protective fangs to come out.

Having said all that, it doesn't help that I can only gauge your tone with what minimal information text provides as opposed to say hearing you pose the question.

Regardless, thanks for the question and curiosity. Please be grateful that you can employ the facilities and definitely dont make any service member's life any harder than it needs to be by bringing this question up to potentially the wrong person. Example: you ask what seems to be some random guy/gal on post/in the gym this question. He/she ask for clarification, you point someone out and then hell ensues whether you are privy to the fall out or not.

For future curiosities you can always refer to the regulations of each branch but, even then there are exceptions e.g. SEALs rocking beards or DELTA wearing polos and boat shoes with BDUs lol I hope those of you in the know had a laugh over that last one.

From one regular guy to another

[AregularGuy]

Originally Posted by ace_31

+1

To say you don't care, yet to employ enough effort to come on here and ask the question in the manner in which you do while discussing discipline/being annoyed and so on is contradictory at the least. Either you don't care (no personal feelings) or you do have feelings strong enough to....which infers caring. Furthermore, for someone who isn't part of the life nor has made the commitment to approach the subject in that manner could very easily cause some of us to bristle due to a few factors. The only point I'll address is the following which is echoed by at least one other person on here. There are those of us that are protective over our troops and respect/understand the value in the commitment to the various sacrifices they've made. To have someone from the outside who could potentially stir the pot (potentially leading to an overreaction) can cause those protective fangs to come out.

Having said all that, it doesn't help that I can only gauge your tone with what minimal information text provides as opposed to say hearing you pose the question.

Regardless, thanks for the question and curiosity. Please be grateful that you can employ the facilities and definitely dont make any service member's life any harder than it needs to be by bringing this question up to potentially the wrong person. Example: you ask what seems to be some random guy/gal on post/in the gym this question. He/she ask for clarification, you point someone out and then hell ensues whether you are privy to the fall out or not.

For future curiosities you can always refer to the regulations of each branch but, even then there are exceptions e.g. SEALs rocking beards or DELTA wearing polos and boat shoes with BDUs lol I hope those of you in the know had a laugh over that last one.

From one regular guy to another

Lol. I'm not quite sure what you're on about, "In the life...". If you're implying SM vs non-SM, maybe you missed the part where I said the gym was only open to active duty SM's at this time, hence I am active duty. And yes, someone might not care enough to stick their nose in someone else's business, a complete stranger, but also think it looks stupid to wear a regular t-shirt with PT shorts. There might not be anything wrong with it but I can have the personal point of view that it looks dumb. It's not my business to bother and they're not my Soldiers. Do you go up to every SM you see with stubble and ask for a shaving profile/chit?

You said it, don't make anyone's life harder than it needs to be. That's exactly why I asked here, out of genuine curiosity, rather than ask some random SM. I didn't find anything specifically in the regs but I am no CSM.

How would it look, me as a commissioned officer, asking Private Snuffy at the gym about his attire? Why would I want to bother them with that regardless of my intent?

You can put your fangs away Cobra, sometimes a question is just a question.

[SnWnMe]

Did I stumble into an E-9 thread?

[AregularGuy]

Originally Posted by SnWnMe

Did I stumble into an E-9 thread?

Hahaha! Let me summarize:

-Guy sees people in on-base gym wearing mixed PT uniform, thinks "that's weird, never seen that before".
-Guy comes to CG to ask if anyone knows if it's within regs
-Despite explaining that the question was out of curiosity and a desire to mind my own business, and having no interest in any of the parties involved, Guy gets various answers from Ok, not OK, to MYOB.

[SnWnMe]

Originally Posted by AregularGuy

Hahaha! Let me summarize:

-Guy sees people in on-base gym wearing mixed PT uniform, thinks "that's weird, never seen that before".
-Guy comes to CG to ask if anyone knows if it's within regs
-Despite explaining that the question was out of curiosity and a desire to mind my own business, and having no interest in any of the parties involved, Guy gets various answers from Ok, not OK, to MYOB.

I don't know how it is with other services but Navy Chiefs AD and retired, have Chiefs only groups in FB where such things are answered quick. Heck we even once found the owner of an ID card found in a brick wall dating back to 1965 within 15 minutes of posting it.

Perhaps you can find such a group amongst your peer (I am assuming you're AD USA) who love reading ARs and welcome such inquiries.

[Killer Bee]

how long have you been active duty?

[AregularGuy]

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

how long have you been active duty?

Reserves for a few years, 15 months active, so, not very long.

ETA: To clarify, I am a reservist. I was deployed and on Active duty orders for the past 15 months. No time frame yet for when my orders will end. So, not "Active Duty" in terms of my "contract"/career.

[CrazyCobraManTim]

With 16 years of broken & mixed service (four+2 active Title 10 & 10 years @ Title 32) - in a variety of billets - I guess I've seen a few things since the 80's until bowing out finally in 2020.

Generally speaking - if you were the uniform - either PT, BDU, ACU, Alphas, Blueberries, Guacs, Charlies, Bravo or Service / Mess - just wear it correctly (as CW5 Murphy says - it's all right or it's alllll wrong). MCO, Navy 150X and AR670-1 are your friends typically.

If your in theater - your probably hanging with either your unit or a mixed crowd and you can mix it up - or at a large base - run a risk of someone having a bad day and wanting to dress you down. Laundry can be a chore or impossible sometimes OCONUS (I wouldn't know - but plenty of salty people tell me).

I'd agree with the others - leave it to the Post or Base CSM or Command Chief or SgtMaj to deal with.

Hell - this AM at zero dark thirty I took a stroll with the last gen Army PT jacket, khaki shorts and a bright red 5k wicking t-shirt at a brisk 60F. Thankfully the Kimber Desert Warrior kept me warm....

[AregularGuy]

Originally Posted by CrazyCobraManTim

With 16 years of broken & mixed service (four+2 active Title 10 & 10 years @ Title 32) - in a variety of billets - I guess I've seen a few things since the 80's until bowing out finally in 2020.

Generally speaking - if you were the uniform - either PT, BDU, ACU, Alphas, Blueberries, Guacs, Charlies, Bravo or Service / Mess - just wear it correctly (as CW5 Murphy says - it's all right or it's alllll wrong). MCO, Navy 150X and AR670-1 are your friends typically.

If your in theater - your probably hanging with either your unit or a mixed crowd and you can mix it up - or at a large base - run a risk of someone having a bad day and wanting to dress you down. Laundry can be a chore or impossible sometimes OCONUS (I wouldn't know - but plenty of salty people tell me).

I'd agree with the others - leave it to the Post or Base CSM or Command Chief or SgtMaj to deal with.

Hell - this AM at zero dark thirty I took a stroll with the last gen Army PT jacket, khaki shorts and a bright red 5k wicking t-shirt at a brisk 60F. Thankfully the Kimber Desert Warrior kept me warm....

Thanks for the insight. Let me just reiterate, I am not trying to "deal with anything", just curious.

This is not directed at anyone in particular:

It has been my experience that no matter how you approach any subject relating to anything remotely resembling a regulation question here on CG, whether out of curiosity, misunderstanding, or for your own personal knowledge and edification, someone will always, always, jump in to tell you it's not your lane and leave it be.

The general consensus seems to be to never ask any questions, regardless. And if you do ask questions it is assumed you are asking to prove a point. Some folks are ready to get their panties in a bunch over nothing at all, it seems. Some of us have sense enough to "myob" and "stay in our lane". Sweet baby Jesus, sometimes a question is just a question.

[Killer Bee]

I asked how long you've been in just to get a sense of your perspective.. being relatively new isn't anything to criticize, we all started there

I was in fleet, seabee battalions, and finally coastal warfare.. active little over 10 years and reserve the balance totalling 20 years.. several deployments during reserve time filled my career in nicely, hardly seemed like I was ever a reservist LoL

been stationed several places inconus and oconus, europe, sw asia, etc. in oversees us bases, foreign sovereign bases, etc. even a short tour in antalya in civies

everywhere you travel throughout your career you'll encounter different elements of every branch doing things differently.. best practice is follow your command's regs and sop and you should enjoy smooth sailing..

when you encounter unusual or seemingly out of reg activity, best to leave well enough alone unless your position requires intervention, such as your rank or collateral duties, shore patrol, mp duty, etc. if you see someone relatively new it may be helpful to discretely point out unintentional uniform discrepancies, but only to save someone the embarrassment, not to question their uniform selection..

during my last deployment in knb, a small group of seals made a clown out of the mess sgt at the dfac.. they rolled in head of the line with loaded weapons, soiled clothes, etc. and simply ignored questioning - they were there to eat a meal and didn't have time for fob games the rest of us completely understood and had no beef with it but that sgt had a fit ultimately just embarrassing himself.. I knew who they were because we launch our patrol boats nearby their beach camp, and they're actually really helpful and friendly when approached.. they just weren't in the mood to play on empty stomachs LoL

you may encounter individuals or small groups that are just bugs that don't care or don't know any better or small unit members with different command policies.. I've worn a myriad of modified uniforms, everything from civies to shorts n tshirts, various foul weather modifications, etc. all authorized by my command but different from other local elements..

pt gear is usually less regulated since it may be worn for evolutions on and off duty where regs may be different or less often enforced..

now that I've been retired over 11 years, I pay very little attention but I'm sure my cutoff bdus and random branch tshirts are pissing off someone LoL

good luck in your career!

[AregularGuy]

Originally Posted by Killer Bee

I asked how long you've been in just to get a sense of your perspective.. being relatively new isn't anything to criticize, we all started there

I was in fleet, seabee battalions, and finally coastal warfare.. active little over 10 years and reserve the balance totalling 20 years.. several deployments during reserve time filled my career in nicely, hardly seemed like I was ever a reservist LoL

been stationed several places inconus and oconus, europe, sw asia, etc. in oversees us bases, foreign sovereign bases, etc. even a short tour in antalya in civies

everywhere you travel throughout your career you'll encounter different elements of every branch doing things differently.. best practice is follow your command's regs and sop and you should enjoy smooth sailing..

when you encounter unusual or seemingly out of reg activity, best to leave well enough alone unless your position requires intervention, such as your rank or collateral duties, shore patrol, mp duty, etc. if you see someone relatively new it may be helpful to discretely point out unintentional uniform discrepancies, but only to save someone the embarrassment, not to question their uniform selection..

during my last deployment in knb, a small group of seals made a clown out of the mess sgt at the dfac.. they rolled in head of the line with loaded weapons, soiled clothes, etc. and simply ignored questioning - they were there to eat a meal and didn't have time for fob games the rest of us completely understood and had no beef with it but that sgt had a fit ultimately just embarrassing himself.. I knew who they were because we launch our patrol boats nearby their beach camp, and they're actually really helpful and friendly when approached.. they just weren't in the mood to play on empty stomachs LoL

you may encounter individuals or small groups that are just bugs that don't care or don't know any better or small unit members with different command policies.. I've worn a myriad of modified uniforms, everything from civies to shorts n tshirts, various foul weather modifications, etc. all authorized by my command but different from other local elements..

pt gear is usually less regulated since it may be worn for evolutions on and off duty where regs may be different or less often enforced..

now that I've been retired over 11 years, I pay very little attention but I'm sure my cutoff bdus and random branch tshirts are pissing off someone LoL

good luck in your career!

Thank you for the advice and well wishes. As weird as it sounds, I am here relatively alone. While I am attached to a unit, it is not my home unit and we don't really function as a unit. So day-to-day I keep to myself and go about my business. I have no Soldiers under me and I only check in with my Squad Leader by text.

The only social interaction is chit chat with a couple of folks at the gym or with folks at the staff duty desk. We don't have formations and PT is on our own due to Covid. So when I say I'm not trying to get into anyone's business I really do mean it. What anyone else does here literally has nothing to do with me.

While I was deployed I worked with SM's from all 4 branches. Interesting talking to them and getting various perspectives. I have a general understanding that there are nuances of SOP and Command discretion for various things. I also have enough sense to know that there's a lot I don't know and would rather not embarrass myself. There's also the common sense and compassion for fellow SM's, as you mentioned for example, SM's in the DFAC with soiled uniforms trying to get their first meal in many hours after various duties.

[golfrj]

Went thru Wake Island once (in the 60's) the uniform of the day was Shorts & Shower Clogs on base!

[anthonyca]

Originally Posted by ShotgunPreacher

I know this: if reported by a civilian, the upper echelons will over react. Please leave it alone. Take it from a guy who once got in trouble for doing PT in the wrong area of Haiti International Airport as a PFC in 1995, Operation Uphold Democracy. Total **** storm. I was looking at an article 15 because an Airforce Colonel didn't like me running the full ring around the perimeter of the airport which took me across an unused portion of th tarmac where left over plane scrap was stored after the coup. My SFC saved my ***** by asking my Army Colonel, "are we really gonna bust a guy for doing PT?" At once it was dropped. Anyway, I hope you catch my drift.

The airforce guy was probably out of uniform with his hands in his pockets sitting on his fat rear and just wanted to ***** because the Army was putting in work.

[Levi123]

From everything I've ever heard, it's a no-no to mix APFU's and civilians...only thing I've seen that's close is when Company Commanders or 1SG's will allow you to wear civilians and a company shirt (Alpha A-holes and such)

Off-post sure I guess

[five.five-six]

Originally Posted by AregularGuy

Mostly just a curiosity.

That’s an easy one. Don’t ask don’t tell.


We won’t judge you.