United Sportsmen (USI) in Concord shut down for time being UPDATE:Range Reopening

[CoachUP]

I just heard about this yesterday at the Livermore range.

Livermore used to be a 300 yd range. People would sometimes shoot over the hill. Because of this it was closed down years back.

Now it's a 100 yd range. They also lowered the roof in the stations and angled them down with a metal 6-8" flashing on top making it impossible to shoot over the hills.

I bet USI will have to do something similar.

[50BMGBOB]

The biggest reason the club hasn't said much I think is because they are still getting a handle on it. Again, I am not a club officer nor do I speak for the club, but they are looking at the problem trying to come up with a game plan. Until the expert they called can get there, make a recommendation, then they have to decide how to pay for it, and permitting, find a contractor and only then will they have an estimate of how long it will take not counting any weather delays from El Nino. Simple fact is it is all speculation right now.

I have talked to several club officers and they are taking this seriously and want to reopen as soon as possible. Give them a little time and check out a few of the surrounding ranges. It can be fun to try something new and make you appreciate USI that much more when they reopen.

[FromTheGrave]

For sure. They are not giving out the information because they don't have it to give at this point. I'm sure announcements will be coming from your respective clubs.

As Bob says, it's not like anyone is happy about this. They're sitting on losing thousands of dollars a day and many people are out a job. No good for anyone. I'm sure they are working hard on resolving whatever they'll have to do.

Attend your club meetings and find out what WE can do when the time comes. That's what i'm planning. After one week i'm already feeling it. Hope it will resolve as quickly as possible.

[Flyin Brian]

Originally Posted by 50BMGBOB

The biggest reason the club hasn't said much I think is because they are still getting a handle on it. Again, I am not a club officer nor do I speak for the club, but they are looking at the problem trying to come up with a game plan. Until the expert they called can get there, make a recommendation, then they have to decide how to pay for it, and permitting, find a contractor and only then will they have an estimate of how long it will take not counting any weather delays from El Nino. Simple fact is it is all speculation right now.

I have talked to several club officers and they are taking this seriously and want to reopen as soon as possible. Give them a little time and check out a few of the surrounding ranges. It can be fun to try something new and make you appreciate USI that much more when they reopen.

Just a message saying "here's the problem, please be patient while we work on a solution" would go a long way in my opinion.

Having to hear what's going on by reading a thread on an unrelated forum is unacceptable. That's my opinion.

I do appreciate the information you have provided, Bob. Thank you.

[XDJYo]

Originally Posted by AAShooter

It is a shame they have limited their targets to 10 yards and out. This is too far for most handgun shooters, especially beginning shooters. Many do drills at 5 and 7 yards . . . to bad they restrict you from doing this.

They actually have movable target stands on the far end for the beginners. That's where Bill Tidwell does his NRA First Steps pistol training. I have used them often. The staff at Livermore are very nice and accommodating. Ask to put you on the lanes with the 7 yard target stands and they'll oblige if possible.

I prefer the individual stalls at Livermore vs the open shooting table lanes at USI. Plus, it's much easier to pick up your brass. Unless you're shooting a Glock, then the brass just dribbles out of the pistol. . My 1911's spit the brass out pretty far.

Anyways, we got to Livermore and it was crazy hot. We didn't last very long. Only 50 rounds out of the Glock and 50 out of the 1911. Tuckered out we stopped by Buffalo Wild Wings for a hef and some wings. Nice way to end the day.

Now, I'm cleaning the pistols.



Sent by a Monkey in Outer Space

[jtv3062]

Originally Posted by polygunner

I'll be the first to say it....

The bullet fragments have been planted by anti gunners with the goal of getting USI shut down.

There I said it.

pg

I have a feeling it's this. I work for the property owner to the east of the range. I have never heard a bullet wiz by or seen any dead cows. Now the old Fairfield police range that's another story.

[jtv3062]

Originally Posted by sgt1372

The only target type that I've ever seen at the outdoor ranges in Livermore, Concord, Richmond, San Mateo, San Leandro & Concord have been NRA bullseye type targets. I've only seen people type targets used at indoor ranges.

Livermore lets people use their own bullseye type targets, even multi-center targets on the their target board but I've heard some Safety Officers comment that using the latter causes a lot of damage to their wood target frames. I think I've seen multi-center targets put up at Richmond & Concord as well.

Personally, I just like to shoot at one big dot in the middle.

I'm glad things have changed at Livermore. I've seen things there that would have given use a black eye if the wrong person seen them, and the RO didn't even care.

[G-Man WC]

At this time it would be the perfect opportunity for certain members
of "the ruling class" to turn USI into a shotgun\action pistol only venue.
But real monies is needed from us commoners that use the public and
MP ranges. I would hope and think they would be making some real
announcement to members or call emergency meetings to discuss it. Rather
than a "were working on it" just stay in the dark while we figure it out.

-g

[uechikid]

The last time I was there (a couple of months ago) one of the range officers told me that they were going to totally remodel the range soon but he didn't no when. Looks like it's happening now. This really sucks.

[MongooseV8]

Originally Posted by G-Man WC

At this time it would be the perfect opportunity for certain members
of "the ruling class" to turn USI into a shotgun\action pistol only venue.
But real monies is needed from us commoners that use the public and
MP ranges. I would hope and think they would be making some real
announcement to members or call emergency meetings to discuss it. Rather
than a "were working on it" just stay in the dark while we figure it out.

-g

Worst idea evar. The public rifle side pulls in way too much money to cater to the few "elite" regulars haha.

USI and all 5 clubs should have notified all members through phone, email, or snail mail. Thousands of due paying loyal members have been left in the dark with no explanation. Bad business move. A simple "We will be closed for a while, thanks for your patience." is all it takes.

I dont care if they are closed because the range broke free from the earth and floated off into space, there is no excuse for handling it like they are.

[MongooseV8]

Originally Posted by uechikid

The last time I was there (a couple of months ago) one of the range officers told me that they were going to totally remodel the range soon but he didn't no when. Looks like it's happening now. This really sucks.

If that is true, it makes this situation even worse. If they knew they would be remodeling the range in June/July and they still collected all the member dues without warning any of us, I know a lot of customers will be angry.

In any case I dont like being put on the back burner, especially for this long.

[Ubermcoupe]

Originally Posted by MongooseV8

Worst idea evar. The public rifle side pulls in way too much money to cater to the few "elite" regulars haha.

USI and all 5 clubs should have notified all members through phone, email, or snail mail. Thousands of due paying loyal members have been left in the dark with no explanation. Bad business move. A simple "We will be closed for a while, thanks for your patience." is all it takes.

I dont care if they are closed because the range broke free from the earth and floated off into space, there is no excuse for handling it like they are.

Think you missed the /sarcasm

You have to take a second and remember who's in charge... It's not like members of "the ruling class" (as GMan put it ) are media/public information experts. (In no way is that a direct insult - more like a personal observation).

I just can't wait for them to return use of the MP range. There's nothing quite like it, imo.

[MongooseV8]

No I got the sarcasm, was just ribbing back =)

And I miss the MP range as well =(

[Gryff]

Originally Posted by sgt1372

Livermore lets people use their own bullseye type targets, even multi-center targets on the their target board but I've heard some Safety Officers comment that using the latter causes a lot of damage to their wood target frames. I think I've seen multi-center targets put up at Richmond & Concord as well.

Richmond prohibits any dots other than at the single center point of the target.

[wooger]

On the bright side, I shot at Chabot this am and they honored my Diablo membership and only charged me $8. Thank you Chabot rifle club!

[jtv3062]

This is what I received from Walnut Creek on the 19th, I'm not sure why the other clubs didnt send out a notice on this. I didn't open up my email till now.



http://us5.campaign-archive2.com/?u=...2&e=846f69462c

[AAShooter]

Originally Posted by Gryff

Richmond prohibits any dots other than at the single center point of the target.

I never understand the obsession with target frame preservation when you run a shooting range. Often you end up driving your customers crazy worrying about a "cost of doing business". Obviously you want to avoid clear waste and destruction of target frames; however, in most public ranges, it is simply going to happen . . . especially when you require people to shoot beyond the effective range they can shoot.

The target frame preservation society should not be in the business of running shooting ranges. -just saying!

[AAShooter]

Originally Posted by XDJYo

They actually have movable target stands on the far end for the beginners. That's where Bill Tidwell does his NRA First Steps pistol training. I have used them often. The staff at Livermore are very nice and accommodating. Ask to put you on the lanes with the 7 yard target stands and they'll oblige if possible.

I prefer the individual stalls at Livermore vs the open shooting table lanes at USI. Plus, it's much easier to pick up your brass. Unless you're shooting a Glock, then the brass just dribbles out of the pistol. . My 1911's spit the brass out pretty far.

Anyways, we got to Livermore and it was crazy hot. We didn't last very long. Only 50 rounds out of the Glock and 50 out of the 1911. Tuckered out we stopped by Buffalo Wild Wings for a hef and some wings. Nice way to end the day.

Now, I'm cleaning the pistols.



Sent by a Monkey in Outer Space

Thanks for the update.

[HondoFlatty]

I am not with the range and do not speak for the range but I just got word from a person with close ties to the range that apparently the "pastor" of the church has "a coffee can full of lead".. Plainly speaking, it's either a plant or a fake!! Something fishy is happening, this isn't going away anytime soon.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

[G-Man WC]

Originally Posted by HondoFlatty

I am not with the range and do not speak for the range but I just got word from a person with close ties to the range that apparently the "pastor" of the church has "a coffee can full of lead".. Plainly speaking, it's either a plant or a fake!! Something fishy is happening, this isn't going away anytime soon.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

I'm not saying that bullets could not make it up the hill from the public range,
and I'm sure a few do. But that amount of alleged lead found does sound a bit fishy to me also. It's not like someone's trick shooting and dropping lead like a golf shot on a green accurately. The public range has some good RSO's and others need to be better trained and need to pay better attention. Whenever I'm on public I've got to watch the line and down range during ceasefire. For me it's like driving with a 16yo, you just do it. I've always tried to mark my calendar and carve out my shooting times at the MP range. The public range just scares me.
You can see the church driving West on Hwy4. Some of that lead could be
coming from the freeway. Shoot up the hill from the freeway would be
like grabbing and tossing the brass ring on a gang banger merry go round.
West Pitt, yea.
Whatever they do, it would be nice to have meetings sooner than later and get a butt load of member volunteers out there working. Pull a permit and let's do it to code
A lot of not to code building through the years has been noticed by club members that not only work for the city, but the I.R.S!
It looks like it's time to get it together and not look the other way now that were in the spotlight.
-g

[Merc1138]

Originally Posted by Gryff

Richmond prohibits any dots other than at the single center point of the target.

Well that's just lame. I suppose with a scope it would be easy enough at 100 yards to just dial in some wind and elevation to make a box or whatever above the bullseye, but that's still really silly.

Originally Posted by AAShooter

I never understand the obsession with target frame preservation when you run a shooting range. Often you end up driving your customers crazy worrying about a "cost of doing business". Obviously you want to avoid clear waste and destruction of target frames; however, in most public ranges, it is simply going to happen . . . especially when you require people to shoot beyond the effective range they can shoot.

The target frame preservation society should not be in the business of running shooting ranges. -just saying!

I'd say it depends on the range. When stands at chabot get shot down(they're also using more than just small strips), it can take out 2-4(possibly more) targets with it due to how they're setup. But even then they just ask you to keep your targets within the big target sheet they put on the cardboard backer(yet people still manage to fail at keeping the stickers inside the gigantic lines). Livermore and most other ranges you just need to not put targets over the wood(bullseyes and such, the big paper targets can cover the wood).

The one that's really irritating, is no headshots at an indoor range. Why? Because some midgets build the place and set their tram system 6' off the ground, so when you factor in another 6" for the hanger, the targets are already super low. Had they set the place up using any sense, the tram lines for the targets would have been high enough that a simple cardboard sheet as a separator between the metal hanger and paper target(12" or so should be plenty) would result in fewer metal hanger hits for people missing headshots.

[rkt88edmo]

Given the YEARS that have gone by for the spalling to accumulate, a coffee can doesn't seem like much if stuff really can make it over the ridge.

[ScottsBad]

Originally Posted by G-Man WC

I'm not saying that bullets could not make it up the hill from the public range,
and I'm sure a few do. But that amount of alleged lead found does sound a bit fishy to me also. It's not like someone's trick shooting and dropping lead like a golf shot on a green accurately......

I've done a fair amount of shooting at USI and I specifically looked at the angle needed to shoot over the hill last time I was there (just before the closure). You'd have to shoot through the ROOF from the bench to get a round over the hill. That said, I think I may have counted three holes total in the low roof flashing probably from accidental discharges. And I'm not sure those shots had enough angle to clear the hill.

I usually shoot at the Livermore range because I like the shooting lanes, the stools instead of fixed seats AND the RSOs allow you to shoot from a standing position at your station (you can really only shoot the 25yd standing).

At Livermore you can shoot pistol or rifle from most lanes. When zeroing a rifle I set up one target at 25yd and at the same time one at 100yds (or sometimes 50yds) so I can check POI at each distance without changing targets. That's kind of handy.

It is true that Livermore had the same problem with 'magic bullets' going over the hill. They changed the range and made it impossible to shoot over the hill.

I think they used a 1/4 or 3/8" AR500 steel along the edge of the roof to keep rounds from penetrating the roof line.

I use the shoot n' see type targets at Livermore. They let you use just about any type of target as long as it doesn't look like a real person (zombies ok).

I hope they get USI back up and running because I enjoy that range as well.

[GVDP]

I doubt if bullets are getting shot directly over the hill. It would more likely be a ricochet that's coming from the dirt and bouncing up over the hill. A shoot taken with the angle great enough to get over the hill wouldn't land for several miles away

[9kracing]

Have you guys ever looked up when you're at the pistol range? The roof is literally filled with bullet holes. I have no doubt some bullets have made it over the hill.

Is it frequent enough to close the entire range and possibly reposition the lanes? Unlikely.

[FromTheGrave]

I find it hard to believe if this is a forced closure that they would have allowed part of the range to continue operating from the get-go. I think they would have shut down the entire business until they had time to investigate the issue and make a determination. That part seems shady to me.

[Sierra57]

Originally Posted by HondoFlatty

I am not with the range and do not speak for the range but I just got word from a person with close ties to the range that apparently the "pastor" of the church has "a coffee can full of lead".. Plainly speaking, it's either a plant or a fake!! Something fishy is happening, this isn't going away anytime soon.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

So why did the pastor wait until he had a "coffee can full of lead" before he complained? That would literally be hundreds of bullets. Seems to me he would have been concerned long before that, and made some kind of complaint to the club and/or the authorities.

[Darklyte27]

Obviously public safety wasnt their concern, Coffee can?! HA!

[7 Sprig]

Unofficially -

The bullets / fragment were found on the roof of the church , they called the Sheriff's department , when they came to investigate more were found on the ridge line on the hill.

.223 , 30 caliber and .40 were found , maybe more i can't remember.

The USI board wants action pistol gone and this is a reason to remove it even tho most agreed the fragments found most likely came off the public rife and have been for years.

USI has enough $ in the bank to run shotgun only for 20 years and never do anything about the rest.

They will most likely get some sort of bullet trap built or a entire reconfiguration - that was the talk anyways but this is supposedly years out and nothing is decided .

A little bird told me more but this is the basics and take it for what you will , i hope its all wrong and everything is back to normal soon but i am moving on. Am not renewing memberships with any of the clubs until this is resolved as from the details i got , its going to be a very long time for a centerfire round to be fired there and USPSA events probably never .

[Friesland]

"The USI board wants action pistol gone and this is a reason to remove it even tho most agreed..."

Have there been "problems/trouble" with Action Pistol?

Any chance Chabot and/or Livermore/Pleasanton will start Action Pistol?

[7 Sprig]

USI has said for a while that USPSA type shooting is unsafe and they have wanted DAP out of there for a while , this is nothing new . I think they would all be happy with shotgun only and beer drinking in the clubhouse and could give rats *** about the rest , but thats just my opinion.

[bsg]

tagged.

[AAShooter]

Originally Posted by Friesland

"The USI board wants action pistol gone and this is a reason to remove it even tho most agreed..."

Have there been "problems/trouble" with Action Pistol?

Any chance Chabot and/or Livermore/Pleasanton will start Action Pistol?

The best I can tell Livermore/Pleasanton would have to be dragged kicking and screaming before they start action pistol. Hard to have a "no blue sky" action pistol range.

[FromTheGrave]

Originally Posted by 7 Sprig

USI has said for a while that USPSA type shooting is unsafe and they have wanted DAP out of there for a while , this is nothing new . I think they would all be happy with shotgun only and beer drinking in the clubhouse and could give rats *** about the rest , but thats just my opinion.

And very conveniently that's exactly what has happened.

[GVDP]

I love the fact that USI claims action pistol is unsafe. I would like to know how many people have killed themselves while under the DAP control. USI rented out the range to the coast guard and if anyone is winging bullets around I would blame them

[AAShooter]

The fact of the matter is this day and age if you are running a shooting range, you need to keep the projectiles on your property. Either have plenty of land or put in the necessary safe guards. If you run a public range, anything is possible. I love all the finger pointing going on about who is at fault with almost no data to support the claims.

[7 Sprig]

Really isn't any finger pointing from talking to people, from what i gathered everyone pretty much agrees where the bullets came from. You must be referring to comments in this thread , not from the people involved.

[7 Sprig]

Like i said i hope it is untrue but this was told to some of us .This is the 1st positive anything so am very happy there are some that will fight keep it going.

[7 Sprig]

Awesome to finally hear positive , hope everything works out.
I never heard of any of the us vs them until now and belong to 2 clubs and shoot everything there and have for years . Thank for setting this rumor straight , i know a few more will be glad to hear the same.

[FromTheGrave]

AndyKev,

Thanks for your response. Glad to hear it's being hashed out. I wouldn't imagine anyone likes losing out on thousands a day. I as well am hoping for the best and will be more than happy to volunteer to help in any way once this gets sorted out.